Page 25 of 89 FirstFirst ... 1520212223242526272829303575 ... LastLast
Results 481 to 500 of 1780
  1. Micael's Avatar
    Posts
    736 Posts
    Global Posts
    739 Global Posts
    #481  
    Quote Originally Posted by sudoer View Post
    I agree. I also do not know enough about the practices his group held. He was a really smart guy, and I recall him viewing it like a group of common believers rather than as a fraternal or civil organization. I could be wrong. I brought it up more as a starting point for discussion (to see whether anyone else ever heard of anything similar) than as something "definitely factual". (I seem to have broken my own rule of posting something I don't know the specifics of. Sorry for that!)

    It's amazing what a Google search of "atheist churches" turns up:
    For yet another interesting angle on this, look to the UUA for a group that tries to meld disparate belief systems into one united group (see Syncretism). Atheists, agnostics, jews, christians, wiccans, druids, you name it.... all in one group.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  2. #482  
    Quote Originally Posted by sudoer View Post
    It's not against all religions (not even all Christian religions). Maybe we can research this to find out how many are in "this camp".
    I would be interested in finding this out... I think that some christians do and some dont? I would think though that believing in "God" and how he created us, that should be a defenitive No in religion?


    Quote Originally Posted by sudoer View Post
    Another good question. I'd say this probably has to be taken as a real event because it involved a real person at a significant time in salvation history.
    I believe that couldve been a true event, but is it possible that the lengths taken or animals placed were exagerated?
    And does that include only Mammals? Cuz I dont know how the million of different species of insects and fish could be caught and placed on the ark, and the avrg life span of a fly is 2 days, so it's not even possible to reach an ark from the stretches of earth. But I do believe that this did happen but in no way 2 of every creature on earth, even by free will, all animals could not reach or live to reach a central location esp the size of an Ark.


    Quote Originally Posted by sudoer View Post
    We have life forms on Earth that were not destined to believe in God (monkeys, dogs, and prarie-grass, at least). It would be God's choice whether He would desire aliens somewhere other than Earth to believe in Him.
    Good religious philosophy!
    Why would this be though?

    Thanks for taking the time to reply!

    ??? Why is "God" refered to as male???
    Could he be asexual? (do not take that as an insult! none intended!)
    Also why would he send "His Son"? Why not a daughter? I can understand at Jesus' time a woman would not be respected, but nor was Jesus' by many!?
  3. #483  
    Quote Originally Posted by ryleyinstl View Post
    I don't blame you for your skepticism. Before I came to STL I had never heard of anything like it. On the other hand my wife has, she was raised under the influence of the Church of England (Anglican), so perhaps they do a similar thing?
    By "Fish Fry Folks" I'm guessing you mean the Catholic practice of abstaining from red meat on Friday.

    This is a practice that is typically seen during Lent but maybe observed year-round. It is a simple means of practicing self-denial on the same day of the week that Jesus was tried, scourged, and crucified by the Romans.
  4. #484  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    Perhaps I should have said my faith is not "absolute," and I say this because I admit to having doubts. You on the other hand do not have any doubts (according to you, you never have), so that indicates to me that your faith in your belief is in fact stronger than mine.

    KAM
    What do you mean by doubt?

    Keep in mind, 1000 questions don't equal a single doubt.
  5.    #485  
    Quote Originally Posted by ryleyinstl View Post
    I don't blame you for your skepticism. Before I came to STL I had never heard of anything like it. On the other hand my wife has, she was raised under the infulance of the Church of England (Anglican), so perhaps they do a similar thing?
    I'm not as skeptical as curious. If you could snap a picture that might add nicely to the discussion here. Anglicans are a lot like Catholics (and their liturgy is very similar). Some Anglicans consider themselves a "branch" of Catholisim and really consider themselves "Catholics". There are a few theological differences (which are important depending on which side of the fence you are on).

    The Pope has recently made a pastoral provision that makes it easy for certain Anglican congregations or members to easily become Roman Catholic.

    Since you don't have more specifics on what's happening around St. Louis, I'll share a bit of the Catholic discipline around the concept you mentioned. In memory of Christ's death on the cross (which happened on a Friday), Christians began to "offer something up in sacrifice" as a way of both remembering and "participating" in this event. In my early childhood (before Vatican II) we did not eat meat of Fridays and this was an official Church custom. As you suggested, the faithful didn't always understand the theological significance of the custom and loaded up on fish or had tasty salmon or something similar instead. The Church changed the practice to having the individual choose some sacrifice of their own. I'm still many of us don't "get it" and I often forget. It's a pious custom and should be encouraged when it's done for the correct reasons. It's entirely possible that some "churches" may occasionally (or perhaps even regularly) have a social event around this. Again, if people really remember why they are there (especially if people really do make some sort of sacrifice associated with the event, I could see this as a good thing. What you and/or your wife remember is probably an abuse of a custom. The Catholic Church changed their custom specifically to prevent this sort of abuse.

    When speaking of Anglicans, Catholics, and Episcopalians, there's a theological issue of the "Real Presence of the Eucharist" that I should discuss. I don't want to diverge the too far off the topic of this thread at any one time. A better opportunity for that discussion will probably arise sometime later in this thread.
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  6. #486  
    ^^^^The fish was getting TV coverage this morning during breakfast. However I have noticed that in STL the Church seems to offer this most every weekend (road signs). Perhaps for it's most devout followers?

    I'm sure the reasons for the fish buffet are justifiable under the doctrines of the church. However to a "normal" person it just seems a little silly.

    I don't think my wife has been in a Church of England since she was a child so isn't up on the goings on these days. As both a medical professional and accomplished PhD microbiologist she has much the same opinion about the likelihood of a God as I do (much to her mothers horror).
    Last edited by ryleyinstl; 02/19/2010 at 04:34 PM.
  7. #487  
    Ok.. well I cant use quotes yet to respond???
    But thanks for the replies! This is an interesting topic for me!

    Evolution?
    Some christians do and some dont believe it? I would be interested in finding out the reasons behind this? If God created us in religions eye there should be no discussion about it, we were created not formed?


    As far as the ark goes... I believe historically Noah did create and ark and boarded many animals!
    Is it possible that 2 of every animal is an exageration?
    It couldve of been 2 of every animal in that geographcal location but impossible for all... Heres why there is no way, the avrg lifespan of a fly is 2 days, there is no way that a fly can travel the stretches of the earth to reach the ark. The millions of species of fish can not survive in the surrounding oceans. Let alone deap sea fish that cant even surface without dying... To the other persons point that responded, penguins have been alive for over 58 million years.. I think that predates Noah a bit! Also animal life was much more abundant and significantly larger due to less human population and larger geographic regions for these animal to inhabit. It is just physically impossible for every living being on the planet to travel and reach a central location Alive!

    As far as magic something could look magical but there is science to disect it and show what it is, and science will also explain the illusion of magic with the brains perception of the eyes vision.
    That is why I dont question the splitting of the sea or the walking on water or turning water into wine, these could have been perceived to have happened, but the Ark is probably one of the biggest things that seems feasibly impossible... So based on that it is hard for me to believe, bc much of the bible could be fabricated...

    I did like the alien answer though! very religious answer... He would choose who can empower the thought of his existence! I like that, not sure why he would do sucha thing but I like that answer!

    Just a thought how do we know God is male!?
    I would personally envision of such "power" to be asexual? (that is meant in no way to be insulting!)

    And why would he send a son, and not a daughter? I understand at that time a female preaching his words would not be taken as serious, but nor was Jesus! Hence the crucifiction
    Last edited by gsonspre; 02/19/2010 at 04:58 PM.
  8. #488  
    oh and Sudoer metioned Calvinism... Im not very familiar with that??? Im curious to know more!?

    Hopefully admin will post my responses soon!? they let this one go thru?
  9.    #489  
    Quote Originally Posted by gsonspre View Post
    oh and Sudoer metioned Calvinism... Im not very familiar with that??? Im curious to know more!?
    Calvinism is a branch of Protestantism started by (or based on the beliefs of) John Calvin. I'm sure there are others who can do a better job describing their tenants of faith than I can. Sometimes people speak of "4 point" and "5 point" Calvinists (which would imply 4 or 5 major beliefs). The belief that I was referring to was their belief that God specifically predetermines (predestines) that some people will be "saved" (by believing in and obeying Jesus) and others won't be saved (because they didn't believe/obey). The meaning to "believe" really encompasses both of the English words to believe and obey. I don't know the language roots before the translation so someone with a knowledge of Greek would be better at this than me. I can probably look up the Greek word if needed *but I don';t have a source for what the word would have been in any other languages * such as Aramaic (if Jesus ever said ), Latin, or possibly Hebrew. You should be able to find more information under Google or Wikipedia.

    EDIT: So when someone says something like "God didn't tell me about his existence, so I can't believe in Him", that supports their notion that God did not intend that everyone be saved. (I'm sure my understanding here is weak, so someone that knows more should please fill in more detail.)
    Last edited by sudoer; 02/19/2010 at 05:05 PM.
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  10. #490  
    Doesn't the fact that all these religions have a different God, or all interpret what God wants of them differently, point to the fact that's it's all made up?

    If you come home to a broken glass table and all 3 of your kids all tell you a different story at least one of them is lying to you.
  11.    #491  
    Quote Originally Posted by ryleyinstl View Post
    Doesn't the fact that all these religions have a different God, or all interpret what God wants of them differently, point to the fact that's it's all made up?

    If you come home to a broken glass table and your 3 kids all tell you a different story....at least one of them is full of it.
    If three kids tell you they did not break the window, by your analogy, you seem to be telling me the window could not possibly be broken. (Does this illustrate the point I have been trying to get you to see?)
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  12. Xerlot's Avatar
    Posts
    8 Posts
    Global Posts
    10 Global Posts
    #492  
    Quote Originally Posted by ryleyinstl View Post
    Doesn't the fact that all these religions have a different God, or all interpret what God wants of them differently, point to the fact that's it's all made up?

    If you come home to a broken glass table and all 3 of your kids all tell you a different story at least one of them is lying to you.
    I am not trying to tell you this is nessisarily what I belive but, If my name is William Richard Tyson (It's Not) then you can call me Bill, William, Richard, ****, Tyson ect. But it does not change the fact that you are talking to me. It is more about the relationship and faith than it is the name.
  13. #493  
    a question for the believers and non believers:

    Do you believe in ghosts?
    If ghosts exist do they in any way correlate to religion and the existence of God?
  14. Micael's Avatar
    Posts
    736 Posts
    Global Posts
    739 Global Posts
    #494  
    Quote Originally Posted by Xerlot View Post
    I am not trying to tell you this is nessisarily what I belive but, If my name is William Richard Tyson (It's Not) then you can call me Bill, William, Richard, ****, Tyson ect. But it does not change the fact that you are talking to me. It is more about the relationship and faith than it is the name.
    Nice analogy, but in fact, each of those names are for you. Each of the religions are not just a different label for the same thing. They are different from each other, vastly in some cases. Personally, I think that all religions diverge from the truth.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  15. Micael's Avatar
    Posts
    736 Posts
    Global Posts
    739 Global Posts
    #495  
    Quote Originally Posted by gsonspre View Post
    a question for the believers and non believers:

    Do you believe in ghosts?
    If ghosts exist do they in any way correlate to religion and the existence of God?
    You've seen a ghost?
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  16.    #496  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Each of the religions are not just a different label for the same thing. They are different from each other, vastly in some cases.
    This is a very good point. I wish I knew more about other religions. Why people hold differing beliefs is a fascinating question for me. Is it simply due to circumstance? Maybe we are genetically pre-programmed to choose differently? There still could be one God who is all these things to each as needed. Maybe we're programmed into groups for some reason that we don't [need to] know or understand [here on Earth]. Maybe there is still hope for science to be able to answer this question about the existence of God!

    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Personally, I think that all religions diverge from the truth.
    I can say with certainty, the either you are right or you are wrong!
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  17. #497  
    Quote Originally Posted by Xerlot View Post
    I am not trying to tell you this is nessisarily what I belive but, If my name is William Richard Tyson (It's Not) then you can call me Bill, William, Richard, ****, Tyson ect. But it does not change the fact that you are talking to me. It is more about the relationship and faith than it is the name.
    These different religions call God by different names because they believe in different Gods. In some cases these Gods ask different things of the worshipers, different sacrifices and different types of praying. Therefor I do not feel your analogy is correct.
  18. #498  
    Quote Originally Posted by Xerlot View Post
    I am not trying to tell you this is nessisarily what I belive but, If my name is William Richard Tyson (It's Not) then you can call me Bill, William, Richard, ****, Tyson ect. But it does not change the fact that you are talking to me. It is more about the relationship and faith than it is the name.
    Would most priests or ministers be willing to recognize that the other religions' gods are just as valid as their own, and are different reflections of the same god?

    Would those in this thread who most strongly defend the accuracy of the Bible grant that Allah is equal to the Christian God, or that Mithra is as valid as Jesus? I seem to recall posts here stating that other religions' were not supported by fact, while the poster's religion is factually accurate.

    I think religions would have far fewer conflicts if people focused on common themes, rather than arguing about different dates / times / events, but we know that your view isn't shared by everyone. (It wouldn't address my own concerns about the lack of any evidence supporting religion, but it would certainly reduce religious conflict.)
    Everything's Amazing and Nobody's Happy

    Treo600 --> Treo650-->PPC6700-->Treo700P-->Treo755P-->Treo800W --> Touch Pro-->Palm Pre --> EVO 4G
  19. #499  
    They are all the same God, Allah, Buddha, Jah and Xerxes!
    haha
  20.    #500  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    Would most priests or ministers be willing to recognize that the other religions' gods are just as valid as their own, and are different reflections of the same god?
    It would not matter what "most priests" think. What matters (at least for Catholics, where the priests are) is what the Church guided by the Holy Spirit and prevented from making doctrinal errors says. The Church says that all salvation (being saved by Jesus) occurs through this same Church set up by Jesus through the Apostles. Other Christians are still "members" of this church even though they split off and have somewhat occluded beliefs). Anyone can also tell you there are sinners in the Catholic Church and "saints" outside of it. I wish Catholics would sometimes learn (a lot) more from other faiths. Outside of Christian faiths, people who are following God as best taught to him are under the mercy of God and will be judged according to the faith they knew. Those who know the faith and willingly reject it will not be saved. Only God knows who has or will be saved, so (aside from bringing his message to people) I don't see a need to worry about what other good people believe. Xerlot may have had a similar line of thinking with regards to people of other faiths believing in the "same God". Hence his/her use of religions as "synonyms" for the same God.

    EDIT: I meant to include a reference to an article that explains some topics related to this better than I can. It's titled "No Salvation Outside the Church" but that's not what it says. It also explains what some non-Catholic Christians see as the "church changing it's teaching" on this matter.
    Last edited by sudoer; 02/19/2010 at 05:56 PM.
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!

Posting Permissions