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  1.    #441  
    Quote Originally Posted by ryleyinstl View Post
    The biggest issue I have with humans worshiping a God is that they are giving up their freedom for no reason at all. Worshiping a God so that you can spend eternity in a comfortable after life requires sacrifice. Sacrifice which limits your ability to be all you can be while your alive. Sacrifice which is ultimately unnecessary and a waste of your time. Time you could of spent living your life on your terms and not those of a mythical God.
    Very well reasoned first paragraph!

    I believe the second paragraph is good too (in what it says) but (IMHO) does not present a well-reasoned argument:
    Quote Originally Posted by ryleyinstl View Post
    Instead of making choices aimed at getting into a comfortable afterlife (which may or may not exist)...try living your life in the best interests of yourself, your family, friends and community (actual real things that we all share). I promise you the world will be a better place for it.
    You begin with two (possibly unrelated, but useful) thoughts (separated by "...") and end with an envisionment that the world will be a better place as a result. I'd like to modify your argument to say that the first thought is probably irrelevant, and your second thought is necessary - for your final thought to be realized.
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  2.    #442  
    Quote Originally Posted by ryleyinstl View Post
    Well ya....how can you worship an all powerful being if not with blind faith?
    I seriously doubt that any faith in this world is really "blind". There has to be some reason for us to want to choose it in the first place.
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  3. #443  
    Wow! this is a good thread and really civil (for the most part)!

    I have questions for the religous folks here:

    Theres was a post earlier where someone (a "believer") believed in evolution... Isn't that a philosophy against religion?
    What is your stance on Dinosaurs?

    I am a science guy, and a lot of my lack of "faith", "destiny" and religion is bc of hard evedince, I know this has been disputed earlier, but I cant, personally, accept an answer of a higher power too large to comprehend or faith as an answer. And certainly if a "God" or "Gods" exist, there is a science around them, there is no such thing as magic!

    So is Noah's Ark a factual event?
    It is Impossible for 1000's of animals to be loaded onto a ship and maintain life, let alone fit or travel far enough to get there! A penguin can not travel 1000's of miles through Arctic water through warmer temperatures and though a desert to board a ship... I find this hard to believe even for logical believers.

    And just curious, what about alien life forms? If there is, are they also created by "God" and do you think being as technilogicaly advanced as they are (being they exist how we perceive them), do they believe in a "God" or the same "God"?
    Certainly they can't have the same religion being that our religions are based on "historical events"?

    Just interested to see your stance on these issues as I cant get a straight answer on these issues from my religious friends...


    "Perception is Reality" So what ever we believe true or false, proven or not it is all still "Real"...
  4. #444  
    Place my vote in the Agnostic column. "God" is Un-knowable. Knowledge is based on Experience.
  5. #445  
    Quote Originally Posted by gsonspre View Post
    Wow! this is a good thread and really civil (for the most part)!

    I have questions for the religous folks here:

    Theres was a post earlier where someone (a "believer") believed in evolution... Isn't that a philosophy against religion?
    What is your stance on Dinosaurs?

    I am a science guy, and a lot of my lack of "faith", "destiny" and religion is bc of hard evedince, I know this has been disputed earlier, but I cant, personally, accept an answer of a higher power too large to comprehend or faith as an answer. And certainly if a "God" or "Gods" exist, there is a science around them, there is no such thing as magic!

    So is Noah's Ark a factual event?
    It is Impossible for 1000's of animals to be loaded onto a ship and maintain life, let alone fit or travel far enough to get there! A penguin can not travel 1000's of miles through Arctic water through warmer temperatures and though a desert to board a ship... I find this hard to believe even for logical believers.

    And just curious, what about alien life forms? If there is, are they also created by "God" and do you think being as technilogicaly advanced as they are (being they exist how we perceive them), do they believe in a "God" or the same "God"?
    Certainly they can't have the same religion being that our religions are based on "historical events"?

    Just interested to see your stance on these issues as I cant get a straight answer on these issues from my religious friends...


    "Perception is Reality" So what ever we believe true or false, proven or not it is all still "Real"...
    You've raised good questions. Questions that always seem to get "pushed under the carpet" by religious people.
    I'm looking forward to seeing their answers.......
  6. #446  
    Twiddling my thumbs....
  7. #447  
    Tapping my foot now....
  8. #448  
    Rolling my eyes, waiting...
  9. #449  
    haha Thanks me too!
  10.    #450  
    Quote Originally Posted by gsonspre View Post
    There's was a post earlier where someone (a "believer") believed in evolution... Isn't that a philosophy against religion?
    What is your stance on Dinosaurs?
    It's not against all religions (not even all Christian religions). Maybe we can research this to find out how many are in "this camp".

    Quote Originally Posted by gsonspre View Post
    So is Noah's Ark a factual event?
    Another good question. I'd say this probably has to be taken as a real event because it involved a real person at a significant time in salvation history. This Guy built one (half size).

    Quote Originally Posted by gsonspre View Post
    And just curious, what about alien life forms? If there is, are they also created by "God" and do you think being as technilogicaly advanced as they are (being they exist how we perceive them), do they believe in a "God" or the same "God"?
    We have life forms on Earth that were not destined to believe in God (monkeys, dogs, and prarie-grass, at least). It would be God's choice whether He would desire aliens somewhere other than Earth to believe in Him.

    Quote Originally Posted by gsonspre View Post
    Certainly they can't have the same religion being that our religions are based on "historical events"?
    I would not rule out the possibility that another world could have the same historical events (even though that does not seem very likely). They could easily have another manifestation of the same God.

    Quote Originally Posted by gsonspre View Post
    Just interested to see your stance on these issues as I cant get a straight answer on these issues from my religious friends...
    Now there's a big surprise!
    Last edited by sudoer; 02/19/2010 at 02:13 PM.
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  11.    #451  
    Quote Originally Posted by dbd View Post
    You've raised good questions.
    ...
    I'm looking forward to seeing their answers.......
    Quote Originally Posted by dbd View Post
    Twiddling my thumbs....
    Quote Originally Posted by dbd View Post
    Tapping my foot now....
    Quote Originally Posted by dbd View Post
    Rolling my eyes, waiting...
    Sorry that I'm such a slow typist. My computer is a bit slow too (which better matches my typing speed)
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  12. Micael's Avatar
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    #452  
    Quote Originally Posted by sudoer View Post
    I seriously doubt that any faith in this world is really "blind". There has to be some reason for us to want to choose it in the first place.
    That reason would be the finality of death.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  13. #453  
    Quote Originally Posted by sudoer View Post
    Sorry that I'm such a slow typist. My computer is a bit slow too (which better matches my typing speed)
    Lol, driving now-
    I'll get back to this shortly..
  14.    #454  
    Quote Originally Posted by dbd View Post
    Lol, driving now-
    I'll get back to this shortly..
    WRONG THREAD (txt, txt, txt, ... thump!)
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  15. #455  
    Quote Originally Posted by sudoer View Post
    WRONG THREAD (txt, txt, txt, ... thump!)
  16.    #456  
    Quote Originally Posted by gsonspre View Post
    I am a science guy, and a lot of my lack of "faith", "destiny" and religion is bc of hard evedince, I know this has been disputed earlier, but I cant, personally, accept an answer of a higher power too large to comprehend or faith as an answer. ...
    I didn't mean to ignore this comment. You make a good argument for Calvinism by your testimony.
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  17. #457  
    Quote Originally Posted by sudoer View Post
    I didn't mean to ignore this comment. You make a good argument for Calvinism by your testimony.
    LOL-
    Since i'm driving, I thought you wrote "cannibalism", at first glance. lol lol
  18. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #458  
    Quote Originally Posted by ryleyinstl View Post
    I don't hold any religious beliefs. Religion attempts to definitively answer questions that people like me aren't even asking or seeking definitive answers to.
    Not a Religious belief, but a belief nonetheless. Your reasoning is also still circular--at least in what you stated there.

    KAM
  19. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #459  
    Quote Originally Posted by ryleyinstl View Post
    Well ya....how can you worship an all powerful being if not with blind faith?
    Perhaps I should have said my faith is not "absolute," and I say this because I admit to having doubts. You on the other hand do not have any doubts (according to you, you never have), so that indicates to me that your faith in your belief is in fact stronger than mine.

    KAM
  20. #460  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    Not a Religious belief, but a belief nonetheless. Your reasoning is also still circular--at least in what you stated there.
    KAM
    I would say a religious belief and a regular belief are two very different things.

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