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  1. #201  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Actually it does. Read closer. For the deist, evidence of the Creator is Creation itself. You, in fact, are the proof. You are, therefore the Creator is. And His gift is Reason.

    I think if you read up on the concept, you'd probably realize you're more a deist than you might initially think.
    Yeah, I got that. I just don't buy it as evidence. However, you are right in the sense that the majesty of the world and universe is evidence (in my mind) that there is a sense of order in the universe; whether it be the elegance of evolution and physics, or some other design.

    I just don't, as a rule, believe in invisible, sentient, bearded guys directing that order and answering individual wishes of everyone in the world. I stopped that right about the time that I realized that Christmas presents really came from mom and dad (oops....spoiler alert.)
    Everything's Amazing and Nobody's Happy

    Treo600 --> Treo650-->PPC6700-->Treo700P-->Treo755P-->Treo800W --> Touch Pro-->Palm Pre --> EVO 4G
  2. #202  
    Quote Originally Posted by ryleyinstl View Post
    Okay...we have determined Spydrbutt is a raciest hater...I will report him when I get out of this airport, lets move on.
    Where are you coming from???? I NEVER SAID I HATED ANYBODY!!!!
  3. #203  
    Quote Originally Posted by sudoer View Post
    I'd advise you to always be on the lookout for whether any God might want you to know more.
    I'm sure if a God, of any kind, is ever proven to exist I will not need to on be on the lookout for clues or signs. It would be the news story of the millennium and be allover the TV.
  4. #204  
    Quote Originally Posted by Spydrbutt View Post
    Where are you coming from???? I NEVER SAID I HATED ANYBODY!!!!
    He's coming from the airport.
  5. #205  
    Quote Originally Posted by ryleyinstl View Post
    ^^Completely off topic I can assure you.



    ^^Disproving the existence of your God is just going to destroy you and I'd hate to be the guy who did that. It is clear by the above, and more so other posts you have made, that you are a very religious individual (all that heavenly father business). Firstly you don't need to defend yourself. You can believe what you want in the USA and many other western nations. I know it will sound disingenuousness when I say this but I mean no disrespect when I say I find your views completely insane. The idea that there are people running the USA with similar ideas scares me half to death. I'm just glad that there is a place I can go back to should things ever get too crazy down here.

    Just like I tell the folks who ring my doorbell every month trying to "save me." Save your breath for the weaker minded, you will be more productive.
    Well since you can't prove anyone's god doesnt exist...

    This post is a good example of how the atheist crowd looks down on the believer.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  6. #206  
    OK, but that statement was in response to folks using Bible passages to condemn the morality of homosexuality. Are you saying you don't think it's immoral, or that it's prohibited by the Bible? Or just that you personally believe it's unnatural?
    All of the above.
    But if you believe that the Bible is to be taken literally, and use it as part of your assertion that it's prohibited by the Bible, then don't you have to also follow all of those other passages, such as not cutting your beard or eating fat?

    Or do you get to pick and choose those passages that support your prejudices? Because it seems to me that this is the exact reasons that religion is dangerous...you get to ignore any inconvenient passages (such as Jesus' prohibitions against judging others) while denouncing anyone that gives you cooties.
    Everything's Amazing and Nobody's Happy

    Treo600 --> Treo650-->PPC6700-->Treo700P-->Treo755P-->Treo800W --> Touch Pro-->Palm Pre --> EVO 4G
  7. #207  
    Quote Originally Posted by dbd View Post
    He's coming from the airport.
    I knew somebody was gonna say that.
  8. #208  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof View Post
    Well since you can't prove anyone's god doesnt exist...

    This post is a good example of how the atheist crowd looks down on the believer.
    And the believing crowd looks down on the atheists.
    What else is new.
    Last edited by dbdoinit; 02/17/2010 at 05:30 PM.
  9. #209  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof View Post
    Well since you can't prove anyone's god doesnt exist...

    This post is a good example of how the atheist crowd looks down on the believer.
    As opposed to believers, who think that they'll literally be looking down on the atheists in hell.
    Everything's Amazing and Nobody's Happy

    Treo600 --> Treo650-->PPC6700-->Treo700P-->Treo755P-->Treo800W --> Touch Pro-->Palm Pre --> EVO 4G
  10. #210  
    Quote Originally Posted by Spydrbutt View Post
    I knew somebody was gonna say that.
  11.    #211  
    Quote Originally Posted by ryleyinstl View Post
    Sure.....but not if there is an all knowing power directing the show. What possible reason could it have to hid the truth from us (or hide it in a collection of short stories)?
    This hidden God desires that we come to love him on our own. Life can sometimes be long and He may have a reason for you not knowing until later. Remember the "God writes straight with crooked lines" quote. You may not be capable of believing in him at this time. Once you accept Jesus your soul is marked completely clean from all effects of original sin. In the parable of the vineyard laborers, some workers were called at the start of the day and others at the last hour. All were paid a days wages (which in theological terms means, all the workers go to the same Heaven). I'm going to give you that famous "it's a mystery" line that you mentioned in one of your earlier posts. I'm hoping it might mean a bit more now as it might apply to you.

    (I'm probably going to stop writing soon as I'm getting exhausted. I'll probably try and better understand what Micael is trying to say at least.
    I'll be around a bit longer tonight so if you need anything else form me just ask.)
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  12. #212  
    Quote Originally Posted by ryleyinstl View Post
    Or, instead of wasting my time trying to figure out those silly riddles, I could just be a good person as defined my the laws and norms of my community.
    Whew good thing for you those laws don't have any religious background.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  13. #213  
    Quote Originally Posted by Spydrbutt View Post
    Where are you coming from???? I NEVER SAID I HATED ANYBODY!!!!
    Perhaps I was over reacting....

    I just can't handle any more people picking on the homosexual community. This nation is fighting unnecessary wars, been bleeding cash forever but yet still wants to focus it's attention adamantly against same sex couples contributing to society. Doesn't care to bestow these people with the same rights and privileges as opposite sex couples? What? There are bigger and important fights for our legislators to fight than preventing that. Progress for these people is halted because some folks believe their lord and savior wasn't comfortable with permanent ****oral tongue play, some strap on action or just plain love.

    Geesh!
  14. #214  
    Says who? You? The bible? Your Rabi? The Internet?

    It very convenient for you that God hasn't shown himself to me yet because he hasn't had the need. Something tells me that if he had ever "shown himself" to anyone I ever knew they would have told me about a guy as big as a house dropping by for coffee.

    Quote Originally Posted by sudoer View Post
    This hidden God desires that we come to love him on our own. Life can sometimes be long and He may have a reason for you not knowing until later......You may not be capable of believing in him at this time. Once you accept Jesus your soul is marked completely clean from all effects of original sin. ....
    That said...props for sticking to your convictions.
  15.    #215  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Ahh, you still seem to be missing my point. No religion does not mean no God. I've tried several different ways now to relate this to you

    My communication skills are terrible, I know.
    I'm sure there is more I want to learn from you. Your views seem to be outside of anything I've been exposed to so far in my life. (I'm actually thankful for this as I see it as an opportunity to learn something more)

    I might have to better understand what "religion" means. It sounds to me like you believe in either a creator or the possibility of one, but that you don't worship this creator in any way. (Am I getting closer?)
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  16. #216  
    Quote Originally Posted by ryleyinstl View Post
    ...... ****oral tongue play, some strap on action or just plain love.

    Geesh!
    I've gotta tell you, ryleyinstl, you're gonna lose a little credibility talking like that.
  17. #217  
    Quote Originally Posted by dbd View Post
    I've gotta tell you, ryleyinstl, you're gonna lose a little credibility talking like that.
    I never had any to start with :-)
  18. Dic Doc's Avatar
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    #218  
    A had a recent "revelation" that the Bible is a lot like a collection of Grimm's fairy tales. As Bujin in post 206 points out, people tend to cherry pick from the Bible the parts that they like and gloss over the points that they don't like. We remember the fun happy parts of the Disney-fied fairy tales, but who remembers that the Little Mermaid felt like she was walking on nails (or was it fire?) with every step on her new legs? That is why you can get radical religious groups - they just focus on the bad parts. This topic has been very Christ-centric, but Islam claims to have the same God, and to me it seems that the pacifist Muslims are the ones that ignore all the bloodshed in the Koran and focus on the happy message parts.

    I recognize that atheists will never convince believers of the absence of God, because you can't prove it doesn't exist. And believers will never convince atheists of the existence of God because you can't prove that it does exist. What bothers me is religious intrusion into the laws of our country. Our Founding Fathers, not all Christian, saw the wisdom in creating a very real separation of Church and State, because once one religion gets in power, all others are oppressed.
  19. #219  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    Paraphrasing Richard Dawkins' interesting take on atheism: Most people are atheists regarding every religion but their own; I merely take it one god further.
    Yet he said it so much more artfully.....somebody please post it for me. It's my favorite quote ever.
  20. Xerlot's Avatar
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    #220  
    Jus tbecause it was brought up and then the first immature name calling started because of this (10 pgs not bad for the first name calling). Homosexuality is a hot topic. In my God/Bible based beliefs it is a sin. Do I agree with it NO, do I condone it NO do I believe that they should recieve the same love from me that the Bible speaks of YES. Who am I in my sinfull nature to judge others. However I do believe in the sactity of marrage. I beleive as it is written to be a bond between man and woman. With that said equal rights should be given to them in the governmental form. So that is why I support civil unions. If all the homosexual community wanted is equal rights no one should have a problem with a different name with the same effect.

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