Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 61 to 80 of 110
  1. #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Those are tax dollars, not "stimulus dollars". I don't care how much you dress it up with words like "stimulus" or "recovery" or "new jobs money". It's all a farce. It's using our grandchildrens tax dollars for wealth redistribution and a shift from capitalism to socialism.

    Explain to me how spending money on public schools and municipalities grows the economy, other than a few contractors and administrators getting a windfall.
    Oh come on. Let's sprinkle a little reality into this. The Bush admin spent AND cut taxes without regard and handed that to whomever would follow them.

    Couple this with the economy going off a cliff and the need for gov't to intervene and I think you have to admit there were no other options for the incoming administration.

    Now regarding spending money on schools, this is a long term investment for the American economy. We will not be the leaders of the World economy without improving our public education from the ground up.

    Same thing with the Federal Tax Credits for Consumer Energy Efficiency. Yea, it increases immediate spending on these materials and workers/contractors, BUT it also increases energy use in the long term.
  2. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #62  
    Quote Originally Posted by JamesCarnley View Post
    The deficit wasn't cause by overspending. In fact our government doesn't spend as much as most countries do.
    No, the deficit is caused EXACTLY by overspending. What other countries spend is irrelevant.

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesCarnley View Post
    Conservatives, starting with Reagan, decided that the best way to make the government smaller was to deny revenue to it. They even coined a phrase "Starve the Beast" for the plan. Cut taxes as much as possible and never let new ones form. This would eventually cause the government to run out of money and start cutting programs and ceasing operations.
    Actually, cutting taxes didn't start with Reagan--it was a strategy employed by Harding, Cooliage, and Kennedy before him--and with significant benefits each time.

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesCarnley View Post
    It didn't work very well. It worked great in the fact that our government is bankrupt and is struggling to pay its bills, but people were defiant and wouldn't let the few services the government actually does offer to suffer. They kept paying for them without any tax increases and both sides stubbornly held their ground.
    Actually, most every time you cut taxes, government revenues increase.

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesCarnley View Post
    Fast forward to today and we have one of the lowest tax rates in the industrial world and our government is in huge debt. It's not sustainable any longer and something really needs to be done. (IMHO the VAT method of tax is our best option).
    Well, no, actually, its that pesky overspending again. None of this spending was ever really sustainable--Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid--they are all essentially ponzi schemes doomed to failure. We are all victims of this idiocy.

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesCarnley View Post
    People won't let the conservatives get rid of our social programs. People like them too much.
    Which do you think they like more--social programs or a collapsed economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesCarnley View Post
    Pretty soon taxes are going to have to go up, the sooner the political world realizes that the better.
    No, the detrimental effects of higher taxes will just dig that hole deeper. Massive spending cuts are the only thing on the horizon that one can control that will blunt this problem.

    KAM
  3. Micael's Avatar
    Posts
    736 Posts
    Global Posts
    739 Global Posts
    #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    Oh come on. Let's sprinkle a little reality into this. The Bush admin spent AND cut taxes without regard and handed that to whomever would follow them.
    I was talking about Reagan, not your punching bag Bush. The key flaw in your retort is the word "spent".
    Couple this with the economy going off a cliff and the need for gov't to intervene and I think you have to admit there were no other options for the incoming administration.
    And yet more Bush bashing. How is this relevant? My original point was only that this is about tax dollars being used for social programs - like funding public schools, not about "job stimulus".
    Now regarding spending money on schools, this is a long term investment for the American economy. We will not be the leaders of the World economy without improving our public education from the ground up.
    Says you. I say the system we have in place is already the most expensive disfunctional system on the planet, and throwing more money at it will only prolong it's addiction to money and corruption.
    Same thing with the Federal Tax Credits for Consumer Energy Efficiency. Yea, it increases immediate spending on these materials and workers/contractors, BUT it also increases energy use in the long term.
    The quickest way to stimulate the ecomony is to put money back into the pockets of the consumers, and the small and mid sized companies that provide the products and services those consumers want.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  4. #64  
    Kam1138 and Micael...absolutely GREAT posts!!
  5. #65  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Says you. I say the system we have in place is already the most expensive disfunctional system on the planet, and throwing more money at it will only prolong it's addiction to money and corruption.
    Just nay-saying is not going to improve the situation. Race to the Top is certainly a plan to reward good teachers and get rid of bad ones as well as reward those schools that perform.

    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    The quickest way to stimulate the ecomony is to put money back into the pockets of the consumers, and the small and mid sized companies that provide the products and services those consumers want.
    And that's exactly what the payroll tax break did for consumers and the administration is currently trying to funnel TARP repayment money into capital for small business loans. You act is if the administration is not doing anything which a falsehood.
  6. Micael's Avatar
    Posts
    736 Posts
    Global Posts
    739 Global Posts
    #66  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    Just nay-saying is not going to improve the situation. Race to the Top is certainly a plan to reward good teachers and get rid of bad ones as well as reward those schools that perform.
    You're defending schools. Thats fine. You missed my point I think. We can certainly debate how money could best be spent (and not be spent) to improve the education system in America.

    Again, my point was the use of the terms "stimulus" and "jobs stimulus" for anything but. That money is tax money. Call it what it is. Don't fool people into believing that it's going to stimulate the economy. As for long term investments, we've already been investing in the public school system... long term. And its failing by your own admission. Lets get real.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  7. rjwerth's Avatar
    Posts
    16 Posts
    Global Posts
    23 Global Posts
    #67  
    FYI. In 1992, the national average expenditure per student was about $5000. In 2006, it was $9138. Even adjusted for inflation, that's about a 15% increase. Have the test scores shown ANY sort of improvement in that same time?
  8. Micael's Avatar
    Posts
    736 Posts
    Global Posts
    739 Global Posts
    #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by rjwerth View Post
    FYI. In 1992, the national average expenditure per student was about $5000. In 2006, it was $9138. Even adjusted for inflation, that's about a 15% increase. Have the test scores shown ANY sort of improvement in that same time?
    Only for the homeschoolers.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  9. rjwerth's Avatar
    Posts
    16 Posts
    Global Posts
    23 Global Posts
    #69  
    And then there's this....Robert Bobb: No more unearned promotions for students | freep.com | Detroit Free Press

    How much money do you want to throw at a problem that is nothing more than bad policy? I'm sure DPS isn't the only system that has this practice and I could probably site dozens of other issues that could be solved by simple policy change and hardly cost a dollar.

    Then we can start talking about the unbelievable amount of waste that goes on. And the solution is BIGGER bureaucracies and MORE money?
  10. #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by RoverNole View Post
    Kam1138 and Micael...absolutely GREAT posts!!
    RoverNole, Great Post.
    Just call me Berd.
  11. groovy's Avatar
    Posts
    941 Posts
    Global Posts
    955 Global Posts
    #71  
    Quote Originally Posted by berdinkerdickle View Post
    RoverNole, Great Post.
    Great post, Berd. Time for a group hug!
  12. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #72  
    Hello Everyone,

    So...is there a tax cut or not? When I say tax cut, I mean an actual reduction in the amount of tax that an individual has to pay, period--not withholding, not shifting money around, a tax CUT.

    At my place of employment, I was told that there was no change for me--while every single other person at my workplace had a withholding change. For some reason (which I do not understand) my pay did not change at all. Also--it isn't because I have a high salary--someone making more than me had a change too.

    The point is...who is really wrong in this--the implied "stupid" people who think they didn't get a tax cut, or those who are laughing at people who are actually correct? I honestly don't know--which speaks more to the pathetic nature of our news media than anything else, because I can't find a straight answer.

    Of course, if it is that unclear, then that speaks to the pathetic nature of our government.

    KAM
  13. #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    The point is...who is really wrong in this--the implied "stupid" people who think they didn't get a tax cut, or those who are laughing at people who are actually correct?
    What are you talking about? Who is laughing at the "stupid" people or anyone for that matter?
  14. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    What are you talking about? Who is laughing at the "stupid" people or anyone for that matter?
    What I'm talking about is the premise of the poll--which I view as "these people are so stupid they don't even realize they got a tax cut." That attitude seems reflected in some of the posters here as well.

    When the statement is "most people don't know" X (claimed to be a fact) it is pointing our their ignorance. Perhaps I should have said Ignorant rather than stupid.

    KAM
  15. Micael's Avatar
    Posts
    736 Posts
    Global Posts
    739 Global Posts
    #75  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    What I'm talking about is the premise of the poll--which I view as "these people are so stupid they don't even realize they got a tax cut." That attitude seems reflected in some of the posters here as well.

    When the statement is "most people don't know" X (claimed to be a fact) it is pointing our their ignorance. Perhaps I should have said Ignorant rather than stupid.

    KAM
    Just don't say "goofy". Just ask Rahm!
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  16. #76  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    What I'm talking about is the premise of the poll--which I view as "these people are so stupid they don't even realize they got a tax cut." That attitude seems reflected in some of the posters here as well.

    When the statement is "most people don't know" X (claimed to be a fact) it is pointing our their ignorance. Perhaps I should have said Ignorant rather than stupid.

    KAM
    I didn't get that at all.
  17. #77  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Just don't say "goofy". Just ask Rahm!
    Careful, he'll cut you.

  18. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #78  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    I didn't get that at all.
    Hmmm, perhaps I'm reading too much into it, but then again, perhaps I'm accustomed to hearing people going on and on about things like someone writing something on their hand. Perhaps I've become jaded about what level of discourse to expect, and if that is the case here, I would happily apologize to anyone who felt maligned by my statement.

    KAM
  19. #79  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    Hmmm, perhaps I'm reading too much into it, but then again, perhaps I'm accustomed to hearing people going on and on about things like someone writing something on their hand. Perhaps I've become jaded about what level of discourse to expect, and if that is the case here, I would happily apologize to anyone who felt maligned by my statement.

    KAM
    snark much?
  20. #80  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Gee that's funny. Everything I've read indicates that cutting taxes stimulates spending, which in turn actually increases tax revenues. Reagan set us up for about 15 years for economic boom that lasted through the Clinton years.
    If I remember correctly, Bush Sr. came into and left office with recessions...
    "Brace yourself, you beautiful *****. I am about to **** you up with some truth!" - Kenny Powers

    "I don't mind paying taxes. With taxes, I purchase civilization."
    - H.L. Mencken
Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast

Posting Permissions