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  1. #161  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    This thread really illustrates the snobbish elitism of the left. "Sarah Palin is just so dumb! Yuk-yuk-yuk-yuk! Uses crib notes in her palm like a commoner! Yuk-yuk-yuk-yuk! Obama is so polished and poised! Yuk-yuk-yuk-yuk!"

    Completely disingenuous.

    You know full well that the whole context of this thing is the right-wing meme that Obama is somehow "secretly stupid," as dutifully mouthed by Palin (yawn, speaking of predictable) in her Tea Party Convention speech. As far as I'm concerned, Palin can write stuff wherever she wants on her body. I honestly couldn't care less. (Though when I officiated a wedding recently I read the service on my Pre. ) Disagree with him, but, please, give it up on the stupid "Obama is actually really stupid" thing. It's just embarrassing.
  2. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #162  
    Quote Originally Posted by grappler View Post
    Completely disingenuous.

    You know full well that the whole context of this thing is the right-wing meme that Obama is somehow "secretly stupid," as dutifully mouthed by Palin (yawn, speaking of predictable) in her Tea Party Convention speech. As far as I'm concerned, Palin can write stuff wherever she wants on her body. I honestly couldn't care less. (Though when I officiated a wedding recently I read the service on my Pre. ) but, please, give it up on the stupid "Obama is actually really stupid thing." It's just embarrassing.
    I don't think Obama is stupid--that's just me. Nor do I buy into the propaganda that he is brilliant.

    However, you've got this totally backwards. This whole "intelligence" argument is a creation of the Left--this left wing meme that Obama is brilliant is no different than what is said about any liberal hero. Al Gore was praised as a brilliant mind as well. John Kerry, Bill Clinton, Hilary Clinton...all of them. This simplistic tactic isn't fooling anyone...well perhaps it is fooling you.

    I find it funny how empty the rhetoric is on either side. Wow, you can cheerlead the person on the side you like. Such an accomplishment.

    The Left praises Obama for being brilliant, and pretty much any conservative as stupid, and then whines when someone doesn't agree with it. You are essentially complaining that people aren't buying into the propaganda of Leftist brilliance. That level of childish us vs them is what's embarrassing.

    KAM
  3. #163  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    What I want to know is why leftistis are obsessed with Sarah Palin. She isn't in office at all. Why would someone be seeking to spend time on what Sarah Palin does or says as compared to the President of the United States.

    Clearly the President is MUCH more important, yet here you (and other) are--nattering on about someone who really doesn't have ANYTHING to do with our Government (at this time).

    Its pretty clear to me that, she's providing what is essentially a straw man for Democrats to make noise about in order to distract from actual issues with our government. Go ahead--she's clearly much more important to you than she is to me.

    BTW--you like the other Cheerleaders characterizing that exchange as some sort of win strikes me as really pathetic. Wow, such amazing ability to reiterate his position--such an example of Brilliance. I have no problem with what he said or did, but touting it as some sort of accomplishment just demonstrates how low you've set the bar for your hero.

    KAM
    I didn't start this thread, so I'm not nattering on about anybody, and I'm hardly obsessed with Sarah Palin. Not even a little bit.

    But she is undeniably one of the major standard-bearers for the Republican party, right? As for "some sort of win," surely you realize that politics is about winning, whether it's votes, arguments, whatever?
  4. #164  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    What I want to know is why leftistis are obsessed with Sarah Palin. She isn't in office at all. Why would someone be seeking to spend time on what Sarah Palin does or says as compared to the President of the United States.
    That's not what I want to know. What I want to know is why many on the right are so insistent on spreading the view that Obama is stupid and inarticulate when it is clear to anyone with a brain who is older than seven that he is neither.

    Seems like a really dumb political tactic to me (as opposed to, you know, concentrating on having decent responses to what he says).
  5. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #165  
    Quote Originally Posted by grappler View Post
    I didn't start this thread, so I'm not nattering on about anybody, and I'm hardly obsessed with Sarah Palin. Not even a little bit.

    But she is undeniably one of the major standard-bearers for the Republican party, right? As for "some sort of win," surely you realize that politics is about winning, whether it's votes, arguments, whatever?
    Perhaps I've somehow misunderstood your posts here and the topic that you are discussing. It sure seemed to reference Sarah Palin.

    Second, is she a standard bearer? I guess for some she is.

    As far as politics and "winning." You are referring specifically to a meeting--with a Q&A. First, as I've stated above--turning that into a place for a "win" is ridiculous, and second--if that's your "win" in politics, then Obama is in more trouble than anyone is talking about.

    Yes, politics is about winning, but if you think that little get-together won any argument, vote, etc, You're fooling yourself.

    KAM
  6. #166  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    The Left praises Obama for being brilliant, and pretty much any conservative as stupid, and then whines when someone doesn't agree with it. That level of childish us vs them is what's embarrassing.
    Yeah, well, I do happen to think Obama's pretty brilliant--on a number of levels--and so do most Americans of all political stripes, as far as I can figure.

    However, I don't brand every conservative as stupid. I don't have a whole lot of affection for the ones who pretend to be stupid, however, and I'd have even less if I were a Republican. I just wouldn't be comfortable with the fact that they've made it so difficult for a Republican to get elected if they believe in something like evolution by natural selection, for example.
  7. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #167  
    Quote Originally Posted by grappler View Post
    That's not what I want to know. What I want to know is why many on the right are so insistent on spreading the view that Obama is stupid and inarticulate when it is clear to anyone with a brain who is older than seven that he is neither.

    Seems like a really dumb political tactic to me (as opposed to, you know, concentrating on having decent responses to what he says).
    Well, I'm not doing that, so I couldn't answer as to why someone is. But as I referred to above, I see it more as a response to the democrat "meme" of proclaiming everyone on their side brilliant.

    If you say "Obama is brilliant" and he "Schooled" Republicans in a Q&A, and I say "No he didn't." that isn't me saying he's stupid. Its just refuting your (or someone else's) cheerleading.

    Let me put this another way. If someone says "Obama is brilliant" because he gave a great speech, and I say "I don't think he's brilliant" or that a speech was a demonstration of claimed brilliance or that I disagree with someone's claims of his vast intellectual superiority, doesn't mean that he's stupid in my view.

    If I just don't think he's intelligent as you or someone else claims doesn't mean I think he's stupid. Likewise, if I don't agree with someone who claims that Sarah Palin is as stupid as a rock doesn't mean I think she's brilliant.

    The reason the Teleprompter comes up is that most of what we judge politicians intelligence on is via planned speeches and carefully prepared talking points. A teleprompter really isn't relevant whether it is used or not. I think most people are judging intelligence on what is actually charisma and presence. Form and substance are not the same thing. Obama excels at form usually, but that doesn't speak to substance (good or bad).

    KAM
  8. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #168  
    Quote Originally Posted by grappler View Post
    Yeah, well, I do happen to think Obama's pretty brilliant--on a number of levels--and so do most Americans of all political stripes, as far as I can figure.
    Well, that's great for you. I don't have any reason to believe he is especially brilliant. What makes him exceptionally intelligent in your view? Do you know what his IQ is?

    Quote Originally Posted by grappler View Post
    However, I don't brand every conservative as stupid. I don't have a whole lot of affection for the ones who pretend to be stupid, however, and I'd have even less if I were a Republican. I just wouldn't be comfortable with the fact that they've made it so difficult for a Republican to get elected if they believe in something like evolution by natural selection, for example.
    Are you meaning to say if they DON'T believe in Natural Selection?

    KAM
  9. kalimotxo's Avatar
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    #169  
    And you're doing the typical Republican act of following blindly and pointing out anecdotes. Perhaps that is the modus operandi of the clueless Right because they prefer their thoughts pre-packaged from Beck, Hannity, and Limbaugh rather than having to do the hard work of educating themselves.

    Democrat fingerprints all over the banking and housing collapses? I suppose you can't attribute that to Republicans dominating federal policy for 8+ years, right? Who sets regulatory policy? Who sets monetary policy? The party in charge, which happened to be the Republican Party. Spare me the anecdotes.

    My point was that the line that Democrats are elitist liberals is utter hogwash. Have you ever in your life been to the Democratic stronholds of the Rust Belt and Appalachia? If you dared visit and talk to those people you just might realize that they're far from elite and far from "liberal." At any rate, I'll take my leadership elite and educated over campy, clueless, and dangerous.

    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    Yes, like that Citibank which was run by Clinton's Treasury Secretary and who formerly was at Goldman Sachs. Then you've got Tim Geithner--New York Federal Reserve Bank, tax cheat (offered position at Citibank). Larry Summers is another one--and a guy neck deep in "deregulation" that is whined about so often by Democrats, and now is where? Oh right--Serving as President Obama's Director of the National Economic Council.

    I'm sure these are all BIG Republican voters right? Utter nonsense.

    Secondly, you, like most other people keep on pointing to the Banks as the key element (they had their part), while forgetting that EVERYTHING these bankers did in regards to the housing bubble (the main cause of our economic "collapse") is tied to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac--populated by people like...oh Rahm Emanuel--Chief of Staff to the President.

    So...you might want to check your facts regarding this even older talking point, portraying Republicans the party of "big business" and Democrats of the working man. That simply is no longer true, but old propaganda dies hard I suppose.

    Democrats fingerprints are ALL OVER this collapse, yet we've got people out there parroting the old (inaccurate) party line.

    KAM
  10. #170  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    This thread really illustrates the snobbish elitism of the left. "Sarah Palin is just so dumb! Yuk-yuk-yuk-yuk! Uses crib notes in her palm like a commoner! Yuk-yuk-yuk-yuk! Obama is so polished and poised! Yuk-yuk-yuk-yuk!"

    Yes, wanting our elected officials to display some reasonable intelligence is quite elitist on our part. How dare we to want them to actually serve all four years of a four year term. Who are we to say that they can not quit after two years to sell books and get paid big money at "grassroots" speaking engagements, telling the masses to watch out, the government is after your money, for over $500.00 a ticket.

    How elitist of us for wanting our politicians and leaders to able to answer questions about their personal reading material and their personal favorite historical figures. Why should we be judging a person who bashes the use of teleprompters, with her parties most basic of principles scribbled on her hand? How dare we question her stance on abstinence only teachings while her teenage daughter is by her side, feeling contractions. And question her "small town values" while she shops for a $100,000.00 wardrobe? How elitist of us , indeed...



    BTW...

    Bush went to both Harvard AND Yale, not because of grades, but because his oil ty**** daddy paid for him to go there. And lately, republicans haven't helped anything without an ".inc" after their name. How is that not "elitist"?
    "Brace yourself, you beautiful *****. I am about to **** you up with some truth!" - Kenny Powers

    "I don't mind paying taxes. With taxes, I purchase civilization."
    - H.L. Mencken
  11. Micael's Avatar
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    #171  
    Quote Originally Posted by grappler View Post
    Completely disingenuous.

    You know full well that the whole context of this thing is the right-wing meme that Obama is somehow "secretly stupid," as dutifully mouthed by Palin (yawn, speaking of predictable) in her Tea Party Convention speech. As far as I'm concerned, Palin can write stuff wherever she wants on her body. I honestly couldn't care less. (Though when I officiated a wedding recently I read the service on my Pre. ) Disagree with him, but, please, give it up on the stupid "Obama is actually really stupid" thing. It's just embarrassing.
    Wrong. Please check the thread title again. It's about sneering down the nose at Palin. (Trying to make this about the right attacking Obama is pretty weak, btw. Can't do better than that?)
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  12. #172  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Wrong. Please check the thread title again. It's about sneering down the nose at Palin. (Trying to make this about the right attacking Obama is pretty weak, btw. Can't do better than that?)
    Not talking about the thread *title.* Talking about the thread.
  13. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #173  
    Quote Originally Posted by kalimotxo View Post
    And you're doing the typical Republican act of following blindly and pointing out anecdotes. Perhaps that is the modus operandi of the clueless Right because they prefer their thoughts pre-packaged from Beck, Hannity, and Limbaugh rather than having to do the hard work of educating themselves.
    Considering that you stated a false premise that someone uneducated might believe (in contrast to the actual factual examples I gave, refuting your inaccurate claims) I find this statement laughable.

    Quote Originally Posted by kalimotxo View Post
    Democrat fingerprints all over the banking and housing collapses? I suppose you can't attribute that to Republicans dominating federal policy for 8+ years, right? Who sets regulatory policy? Who sets monetary policy? The party in charge, which happened to be the Republican Party. Spare me the anecdotes.
    I'm sure that some of this is attributable to Republicans, but of course what I stated was pointing out how flawed your propaganda based claims are. I'm more than happy to acknowledge that people of both parties were engaged in bad practices. You on the other hand ignorantly claim that this is due to "republican" bankers. Your reasoning is flawed, and based on at best a flimsy grasp of the fact (assuming your post here is an indication of your knowledge and you aren't simply lying while actually knowing it isn't true).

    Anecdotes...oh yes, you must be referring to facts that don't fit your propaganda template. Sorry, but I'll continue to state facts, even if you dislike the practice.

    Quote Originally Posted by kalimotxo View Post
    My point was that the line that Democrats are elitist liberals is utter hogwash.
    Perhaps then you might want to make your point with accuracy instead of resorting to nonsensical propaganda-based claims.

    Quote Originally Posted by kalimotxo View Post
    Have you ever in your life been to the Democratic stronholds of the Rust Belt and Appalachia? If you dared visit and talk to those people you just might realize that they're far from elite and far from "liberal." At any rate, I'll take my leadership elite and educated over campy, clueless, and dangerous.
    So, your "leadership" IS elite then? Or not? Please make up your mind.

    KAM
  14. Micael's Avatar
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    #174  
    Quote Originally Posted by grappler View Post
    Not talking about the thread *title.* Talking about the thread.
    Talk all you'd like My point stands. The left can't get it through their heads that someone so "common" and "unpolished" should have such a following. The attacks on her, in this thread, are way out of line.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  15. #175  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    Well, that's great for you. I don't have any reason to believe he is especially brilliant. What makes him exceptionally intelligent in your view? Do you know what his IQ is?



    Are you meaning to say if they DON'T believe in Natural Selection?

    KAM
    I have formed my opinion of Obama (yes, it's my opinion) the same way I form my opinion of any public figure. He seems smarter than me, and smarter than a lot of people I know, but I don't know his IQ, or mine, or theirs.

    The point is not whether or not he's "brilliant," but whether--as many on the right would have it--he's a man of average or below-average intelligence, who, as you put it, is a "good reader." Somehow a jump has been made from the Bush years, when we were expected to believe that Bush was really smart, but just a "bad reader." Or something like that. I can't really follow it anymore. I'm not smart enough.

    Edit re natural selection: Nope, I meant what I wrote.
    Last edited by grappler; 02/10/2010 at 12:07 PM.
  16. Micael's Avatar
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    #176  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    Yes, wanting our elected officials to display some reasonable intelligence is quite elitist on our part. How dare we to want them to actually serve all four years of a four year term. Who are we to say that they can not quit after two years to sell books and get paid big money at "grassroots" speaking engagements, telling the masses to watch out, the government is after your money, for over $500.00 a ticket.

    How elitist of us for wanting our politicians and leaders to able to answer questions about their personal reading material and their personal favorite historical figures. Why should we be judging a person who bashes the use of teleprompters, with her parties most basic of principles scribbled on her hand? How dare we question her stance on abstinence only teachings while her teenage daughter is by her side, feeling contractions. And question her "small town values" while she shops for a $100,000.00 wardrobe? How elitist of us , indeed...



    BTW...

    Bush went to both Harvard AND Yale, not because of grades, but because his oil ty**** daddy paid for him to go there. And lately, republicans haven't helped anything without an ".inc" after their name. How is that not "elitist"?
    each of these little elitist gripes have been debunked ad nauseum. obviously debunking them with you would be a waste of time. you've made up your mind on sarah palin. that's your right, but you're wrong.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  17. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #177  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    Yes, wanting our elected officials to display some reasonable intelligence is quite elitist on our part.
    No, your practice of labeling anyone you disagree with as unintelligent is the joke that you delude yourselves with.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    Bush went to both Harvard AND Yale, not because of grades, but because his oil ty**** daddy paid for him to go there. And lately, republicans haven't helped anything without an ".inc" after their name. How is that not "elitist"?
    I'm amazed at this display of Junior High level "damn the man" sort of thinking. "Anything with an .inc" after it? Seriously? Are you really so detatched from reality that you adhere to this outdated propaganda set?

    KAM
  18. #178  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Talk all you'd like My point stands. The left can't get it through their heads that someone so "common" and "unpolished" should have such a following. The attacks on her, in this thread, are way out of line.
    That's America for ya. After all, this country was founded by a bunch of hyper-literate, highly verbal aristocrats. Ever read their stuff? Yuck, what a bunch of snobs.

    As that commoner Harry Truman said, if Palin can't stand the heat, she can get out of the kitchen. My heart really bleeds for poor Sarah!
  19. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #179  
    Quote Originally Posted by grappler View Post
    I have formed my opinion of Obama (yes, it's my opinion) the same way I form my opinion of any public figure. He seems smarter than me, and smarter than a lot of people I know, but I don't know his IQ, or mine, or theirs.
    I understand that you have an opinion, and that's fine. But without knowing his IQ, why do you assume he is smarter? He doesn't strike me as any more intelligent than people I know (more than some, less than others), but that's just perception of course.

    Quote Originally Posted by grappler View Post
    The point is not whether or not he's "brilliant," but whether--as many on the right would have it--he's a man of average or below-average intelligence, who, as you put it, is a "good reader." Somehow a jump has been made from the Bush years, when we were expected to believe that Bush was really smart, but just a "bad reader." Or something like that. I can't really follow it anymore. I'm not smart enough.
    As I see it--you've put the cart before the horse. The long-standing Leftist tactic of proclaiming their leaders as having exceptional intelligent is in effect with Obama. His supposed brilliance has been touted quite often, so it seems to me that someone responding in a contrary way (to whatever level) is...well, a RESPONSE.

    Perhaps that response wouldn't exist if we weren't told so often about how brilliant he is.

    To be honest...I'm not that concerned with how intelligent he is--rather what he does. I don't care if an ***** comes up with a great idea--if its a good idea, likewise, if a brilliant man is doing something idiotic, I'm really not going to like it.

    I think President Obama is "learned" more than anything, and in a specific way of thinking as well. He has a great command of what he believes, and the ability to articulate it. That however, isn't an indication (or refutation) of his intelligence.

    KAM
  20. #180  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    Seriously. Could this person continue to show her lack of knowledge and lack of professionalism any more blatantly? It's kinda sad.



    Watch the video here.

    Dude, just say it, she's a dumb***. Everyone knows it. Even the Rupugs. Only the lowest of the low will see anything of value in that wasted body, hence the tea party welcomed her.

    And for those wondering why liberals are so interested? Well, if she wasn't in the news 24/7, most wouldn't care. Plus, after having dodged a bullet during the last presidential campaign, some are naturally curious about who this person really was (as if they didn't know already), and day after day she never fails to surprise.
    Sony Clie --> Tungsten t2 --> iPhone3g --> Palm Pre --> Droid
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