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  1.    #141  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    (sorry redninja, bringing it up again)
    What does this mean?
  2.    #142  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    I will agree, he did NOT use a teleprompter and did not put his foot in his mouth.
    And that was the point. Comparing it to a not-too-learned potential presidential candidate sneaking hand written notes like a third grader cheating on a test.

    The rest of your comments have already been addresed by me in the description of how the republicans were hoping to make political theater out of the event in their favor but were outdone by a superior intellect.

    nuff said
  3. #143  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    I'd rather have someone as VP who hides her crib notes as opposed to hiding one's own child as John Edwards did:


    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    ... if Clinton can get a BJ from a woman other than his wife in the Oval Office, and not be removed from office, and lie under oath about it, then I don't quite see why Sanford shouldn't still be holding office. He did lie, but it wasn't under oath that I'm aware of. Are you saying Clinton should have been kicked out of office? Really? As for Edwards....I really don't think any democrat can really defend the guy....I mean seriously, he was cheating on his wife while she was being treated for cancer. Oh....he also had a love child while his wife was being treated for cancer. Oh....and by the way....he did that while running for President. Oh....and by the way....he possibly paid her off with campaign funds. Really, you're surprised that no democrat has come to his rescue? Really?
    Ah -- the values voter.

    They value sanctimony and the patina of morality -- more than intelligence and competency.

    Its the: junior was better than Clinton because Clinton lied about getting his whistle washed, while junior only lied to get us into war...


    *(let me stipulate that though Edwards was a scummy human, he at least was smart and well informed -- something only a teabagger would believe about Palin).
    Last edited by BARYE; 02/10/2010 at 03:02 AM.
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  4. #144  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    Ah -- the values voter.

    They value sanctimony and the patina of morality -- more than intelligence and competency.

    Its the: junior was better than Clinton because Clinton lied about getting his whistle washed, while junior only lied to get us into war...


    *(let me stipulate that though Edwards was a scummy human, he at least was smart and well informed -- something only a teabagger would believe about Palin).
    Actually, they don't value it much. It was one thing to get rid of Craig and Foley...but Vitter, Ensign and Sanford are still in office and there's no suggestion they will be leaving anytime soon. So the sense of moral outrage is blatantly tinged with expediency. At least Edwards and Spitzer are out of office. Personally, I could care less whether Sanford is boinking an Argentinian...but what I do care about is their blatant hypocrisy. But there should be no surprise about that...they are republicans.
  5. groovy's Avatar
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    #145  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    Its the: junior was better than Clinton because Clinton lied about getting his whistle washed, while junior only lied to get us into war...
    That argument would make sense if it had any teeth. The fact is that only one of those men was found guilty of perjury.
  6. #146  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    And that was the point. Comparing it to a not-too-learned potential presidential candidate sneaking hand written notes like a third grader cheating on a test.

    The rest of your comments have already been addresed by me in the description of how the republicans were hoping to make political theater out of the event in their favor but were outdone by a superior intellect.

    nuff said
    "Nuff said"? I just didn't see how they were "outdone" or "schooled" by Obama. The guy either didn't answer a question, repeated what he has said the past few months, blamed Bush, said "not my fault", or lied. It is uncanny how he can say one thing and then his actions are the complete opposite. He was the one showboating. As for "superior intellect".....the only thing superior he showed was the ability to act like he was answering a question but not really doing that at all. I will give him an A+ for that.

    As for compating him to Palin, if the President didn't know more about a subject matter than a potential maybe candidate, well, that would be truly sad. Oh...and the press secretary (name slips my mind at the moment) making fun of Palin is just another example of how Obama says one thing and does another. He constantly says he is above regular politics, and wants to get past the politics of the past, and then he makes fun of someone. And don't say it wasn't Obama, Obama knows everything that dude is going to do out there. So yet another example of change being the same old politics. It is laughable how the "man of change" is just politics as usual. But, I didn't expect anything different anyway.
    PalmPilot, PalmIIIc, Treo 650, Pre, Pre 3, Nokia 1020, Lumia 950

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  7. #147  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    That argument would make sense if it had any teeth. The fact is that only one of those men was found guilty of perjury.
    Yes, one was thrown into hearings while the other was never even questioned because it was deemed "unpatriotic" and "anti-American." Now when even questioning Bush and/or Cheney, we are told that we should not "bring up the past or slander the previous administration." So all of the evidence is here and dangling before our eyes and we do nothing about it. One got a BJ and one pretty much killed and maimed thousands of our service men and women for an unnecessary, unprovoked war. But now England is wanting to question him just like they did Tony Blaire, for six hours straight. If this actually happens, this will be interesting to see...
    "Brace yourself, you beautiful *****. I am about to **** you up with some truth!" - Kenny Powers

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  8. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #148  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    Actually, if you watch the event in question, I think one would have to admit that the President made very clear statements that the Republican's ideas on the issues discussed there would absolutely be considered by the President if they were effective for the American people, such as tort reform etc.
    Yes, the President has been saying that a lot lately. I've learned that what the President Says really isn't all that relevant compared to what he does.

    KAM
  9. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #149  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    Don't those "random internet folks" also vote in our elections and attend tea party conventions? What is you beef with this?
    I have no "beef" with it existing. However, it doesn't mean that a handful of internet voters are providing a thorough analysis. I could create a website and rate things--should I demand that it be considered some sort of objective judgment?

    You presenting it as some sort of objective measure is what I question, when it really doesn't appear to be any more than an unscientific opinion poll--of very few people (less than 10 it appears in most cases).

    KAM
  10. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #150  
    Quote Originally Posted by redninja View Post
    The republicans kicked that dog out the door awhile back.
    I feel the democrats worked with the right for a very long time, since clinton. And as soon as power shifted, hte right has kinda freaked out about it, and they have not done one thing themselves to be bipartisan. So how can you cry about it?? They lied, misled, scared and have been very childish throughout obama's year of presidency. What happened to support a war time president? Seemed very big while bushy was in. They have done nothiong but try to destroy anything the left has attempted to do. Even fought credit card reform. Therefore they dont deserve bi-partisanship any longer. And you have no right to cry about it yourself. They had a chance during their Q&A, instead they chose to make it a smear campaign, and clearly lost. So why dont you email boehner and ask him about bi-partisanship.
    You seem to lack understanding of how things work. As it stands now, Democrats are in complete control of "bipartisanship" as they have complete control of the Legislative process. If they want to leave Republicans out in the cold, they have that power, and that's exactly what happened--specifically in the house, with them literally being locked out of meetings in some cases. The Senate to a somewhat lesser extent.

    The Republicans can be "bipartisan" in one way--simply agreeing with Democrats, but of course that isn't bipartisanship.

    Democrats control things now, and they are responsible, and they've chosen to try and force things through against the will of the public, and ignore anything Republicans have to say, so if someone is "crying" about bipartisanship, one should look to those in power--and that's the Democrats.

    KAM
  11. #151  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    Yes, the President has been saying that a lot lately. I've learned that what the President Says really isn't all that relevant compared to what he does.

    KAM
    Oh so true....that is the "beauty" of this guy. He says exactly what the group that he is talking to wants to hear....and then he seems to forget what he has said when talking to the next group. I am starting to respect him as a great politician....which is ironic because he ran on supposedly not being "politics as usual". But yet he continues to chastise the exact same thing. It takes a truly skilled politician to be able to do that. So there, I have complimented Obama on something. He is a crafty politician!
    PalmPilot, PalmIIIc, Treo 650, Pre, Pre 3, Nokia 1020, Lumia 950

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  12. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #152  
    Quote Originally Posted by redninja View Post
    He clearly won every exchange, simply by being impressively informed about everything, and with facts and numbers that completely decimated anything they attempted to throw at him.
    No, that's simply your opinion. Your being a fan doesn't mean he "won" and like I said to daThomas, I find it disappointing that you (and apparently many others like you) characterize this as some sort of little contest.

    Quote Originally Posted by redninja View Post
    Which, even if you dont like him, it was pretty impressive. I dont believe theres many people at all that could've done the same, especially as collected as he did it.
    I'm sorry, but I didn't find it impressive. While I thought he handled himself well, I hardly think this was some sort of brilliant engagement. It was a Q&A without any particular relevance. To listen to you guys, this is Kennedy's "Moon" Speech, FDR's "fear" speech, Reagan's "Wall" speech all rolled into one performed while fighting off demon hordes and saving a bus-load of babies.
    It seems you guys are really desperate to find any reason to cheer this guy, and my personal opinion is that fan-like praise of government officials isn't really helpful, and in fact, I think it can be dangerous. I've got nothing against you, but I really don't find your opinions to be particularly objective. That's not saying don't have these opinions, but when a fan expresses his approval...well, that's just expected.

    Quote Originally Posted by redninja View Post
    Also, you seem intelligent, so I find it hard that you didn't see this also, and instead choose to deny it. Unless of course, like Palin, you have someone else write your speeches also.
    I didn't deny that Obama handled himself well, and I said that I thought it was a good exchange. It just wasn't a "win" like you insist on portraying it--for anyone in my view. Wow, the President held a discussion with a group that wasn't slavering over every word. Congratulations--its not an accomplishment of note, its simply part of the job.

    Now, if you think that Obama doesn't have someone writing his speeches, you are mistaken. I'm quite sure that President Obama's "corpsman" flub wasn't borne of him writing that material himself. President's (and other people) have speech writers.

    KAM
  13. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #153  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    And that was the point. Comparing it to a not-too-learned potential presidential candidate sneaking hand written notes like a third grader cheating on a test.
    As opposed to using Teleprompters when giving a speech in front of grade-schoolers.

    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    The rest of your comments have already been addresed by me in the description of how the republicans were hoping to make political theater out of the event in their favor but were outdone by a superior intellect.

    nuff said
    Yes, "nuff" indeed, because repeating your highly biased invention of reality really isn't insightful or accurate.

    Do you really not understand that your expression of fandom isn't reality? It's your opinion, and you are welcome to it, but why pretend that it stands in the place of some sort of factual reasoning?

    You've created an accusation (which has no factual basis), and then declared that the object of your fandom 'won' (nothing more than a subjective claim). We get it--you really like President Obama, but your fantasy situation and declaration of victory isn't anything more than cheerleading.

    Again--I've got nothing against you personally, or even someone who really likes a politician, but I also think that the slavish devotion that you and other seem to have really is dangerous. You falling over yourself to praise near-meaningless little exchanges is not healthy as I see it. While I doubt that you have a direct line where the President will notice this, others may, and this sort of sycophancy is really not good--for anyone. This undue level of praise creates this overinflated sense of accomplishment--substituting for ACTUAL accomplishment, and with President, we don't need a bunch of fans--we need watchful citizens.

    This childish love or hatred of politicians is more suitable for serfs living in fear of their lord rather than sovereign citizens. I really wish that this would stop, because I just don't think it is healthy for a free society.

    KAM
  14. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #154  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    Oh so true....that is the "beauty" of this guy. He says exactly what the group that he is talking to wants to hear....and then he seems to forget what he has said when talking to the next group. I am starting to respect him as a great politician....which is ironic because he ran on supposedly not being "politics as usual". But yet he continues to chastise the exact same thing. It takes a truly skilled politician to be able to do that. So there, I have complimented Obama on something. He is a crafty politician!
    He's been pretty busy lately blaming others for problems that he had part in creating. He alternatively talks about working together, and then demonstrates his unwillingness to actually do it. I hope this is changing, because he's realized that he can't just have things pushed through anymore.

    I am not sure however he is that great of a politician, because these inconsistencies are very plain to see (for anyone not slavishly devoted to praising him).

    I think that President Obama is intelligent, and can be a great communicator, and if he put these skills to work, we probably could make some actual progress in finding solutions, but rhetoric and action are very different. It sounds to me as if this upcoming healthcare meeting is already falling apart, because the Rhetoric is outpacing the willingness of various parties to find common ground.

    In my view, they need to start with a clean sheet of paper, cut the BS and say "Ok, what areas can we agree on" and then concentrate on getting those things done.

    KAM
  15. Micael's Avatar
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    #155  
    This thread really illustrates the snobbish elitism of the left. "Sarah Palin is just so dumb! Yuk-yuk-yuk-yuk! Uses crib notes in her palm like a commoner! Yuk-yuk-yuk-yuk! Obama is so polished and poised! Yuk-yuk-yuk-yuk!"

    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  16. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #156  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    This thread really illustrates the snobbish elitism of the left. "Sarah Palin is just so dumb! Yuk-yuk-yuk-yuk! Uses crib notes in her palm like a commoner! Yuk-yuk-yuk-yuk! Obama is so polished an poised! Yuk-yuk-yuk-yuk!"
    This is so common that it has become cliche. Liberals, leftists, progressive--whatever you want to call them or they call themselves almost invariably portray themselves as the "intelligent" ones while portraying any (or all) conservatives as stupid, uneducated idiots.

    Now, while there are many people in the world who are stupid, and many more who are ignorant, this little tactic is pretty transparent. REALLY? It just so happens that everyone you like is intelligent and everyone you dislike is stupid. Wow, what an amazing conclusion.

    Its actually a very deceptive and hateful little practice. It's an effort to avoid substance and rely instead of labels. Who wants to side with the "stupid" guy instead of the "intelligent" one.

    This thread existing is a testament to this practice. Of course, people who rely on this sort of tactic happily ignore the stupidity on their side that they use as "evidence" in declaring the other side stupid.

    This sort of faux elitism (they aren't elite, just arrogant) is laughable in my view. It's an exercise in pettiness more than anything as I see it. The hollowness of declaring someone "owned" or "having their butts handed to them" is similar.

    You declare a subjective exchange "won" by the guy you adore. Wow, I never saw that coming.

    KAM
  17. kalimotxo's Avatar
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    #157  
    Isn't the "snobbish elitism of the left" thing a little played out? I can assure you that most Democrats aren't that far to the left and certainly aren't snobbish or elite. If you want to jab at so-called "elites" then perhaps a good starting point would be the elite bankers who nearly drove our economy to collapse. I suppose that was OK, though, because they vote Republican.

    [QUOTE=Micael;2212998]This thread really illustrates the snobbish elitism of the left. "Sarah Palin is just so dumb! Yuk-yuk-yuk-yuk! Uses crib notes in her palm like a commoner! Yuk-yuk-yuk-yuk! Obama is so polished and poised! Yuk-yuk-yuk-yuk!"
  18. #158  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    Okay....will say this one more time and type it slowly. I am NOT against the use of teleprompters. My only point...again...read carefully here....is Obama is made out to be a great speaker and I simply say BS, he's a very good reader. These people who make him out to be a great speaker, in my opinion, are just blowing smoke (or smoking something).
    Yeah, that must be why Obama handed the Republicans their *** in the recent health care Q & A with nothing to rely on but his wits.

    You have to do some strenuous mental gymnastics to buy the absolutely ridiculous talking point that Obama may seem intelligent and/or eloquent, but he really isn't because he can only put words together coherently when using a teleprompter, and its converse, Palin may seem uninformed and/or misinformed and/or incoherent, but she really is super-smart and qualified and informed, and you can see that if you get her away from those mean liberal media people who try to trap her with trick questions.

    Most Americans, no matter what they think of either person's politics, are never going to buy either of those claims--they just ain't, sorry.

    No matter what your politics, you can't possibly seriously believe--or seriously expect other people to believe--that there could be any doubt whatsoever about the outcome of an unscripted debate between Palin and Obama on virtually any topic relevant to being President of the United States.
  19. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #159  
    Quote Originally Posted by kalimotxo View Post
    Isn't the "snobbish elitism of the left" thing a little played out? I can assure you that most Democrats aren't that far to the left and certainly aren't snobbish or elite. If you want to jab at so-called "elites" then perhaps a good starting point would be the elite bankers who nearly drove our economy to collapse. I suppose that was OK, though, because they vote Republican.
    Yes, like that Citibank which was run by Clinton's Treasury Secretary and who formerly was at Goldman Sachs. Then you've got Tim Geithner--New York Federal Reserve Bank, tax cheat (offered position at Citibank). Larry Summers is another one--and a guy neck deep in "deregulation" that is whined about so often by Democrats, and now is where? Oh right--Serving as President Obama's Director of the National Economic Council.

    I'm sure these are all BIG Republican voters right? Utter nonsense.

    Secondly, you, like most other people keep on pointing to the Banks as the key element (they had their part), while forgetting that EVERYTHING these bankers did in regards to the housing bubble (the main cause of our economic "collapse") is tied to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac--populated by people like...oh Rahm Emanuel--Chief of Staff to the President.

    So...you might want to check your facts regarding this even older talking point, portraying Republicans the party of "big business" and Democrats of the working man. That simply is no longer true, but old propaganda dies hard I suppose.

    Democrats fingerprints are ALL OVER this collapse, yet we've got people out there parroting the old (inaccurate) party line.

    KAM
  20. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #160  
    Quote Originally Posted by grappler View Post
    Yeah, that must be why Obama handed the Republicans their *** in the recent health care Q & A with nothing to rely on but his wits.

    You have to do some strenuous mental gymnastics to buy the absolutely ridiculous talking point that Obama may seem intelligent and/or eloquent, but he really isn't because he can only put words together coherently when using a teleprompter, and its converse, Palin may seem uninformed and/or misinformed and/or incoherent, but she really is super-smart and qualified and informed, and you can see that if you get her away from those mean liberal media people who try to trap her with trick questions.

    Most Americans, no matter what they think of either person's politics, are never going to buy either of those claims--they just ain't, sorry.

    No matter what your politics, you can't possibly seriously believe--or seriously expect other people to believe--that there could be any doubt whatsoever about the outcome of an unscripted debate between Palin and Obama on virtually any topic relevant to being President of the United States.
    What I want to know is why leftistis are obsessed with Sarah Palin. She isn't in office at all. Why would someone be seeking to spend time on what Sarah Palin does or says as compared to the President of the United States.

    Clearly the President is MUCH more important, yet here you (and other) are--nattering on about someone who really doesn't have ANYTHING to do with our Government (at this time).

    Its pretty clear to me that, she's providing what is essentially a straw man for Democrats to make noise about in order to distract from actual issues with our government. Go ahead--she's clearly much more important to you than she is to me.

    BTW--you like the other Cheerleaders characterizing that exchange as some sort of win strikes me as really pathetic. Wow, such amazing ability to reiterate his position--such an example of Brilliance. I have no problem with what he said or did, but touting it as some sort of accomplishment just demonstrates how low you've set the bar for your hero.

    KAM
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