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  1. #501  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof View Post
    Right you are, so can you explain why youre so confused about car insurance?
    I am not confused at all. I was just pointing out your hypocrisy. You say you do not want government to tell you you have to buy insurance when they already do that very thing for you car. It does not matter if it is state or federal, it is still a mandated purchase.

    Well gee who you think is gonna run single payer. If thats not the government mandating health care what is.
    Big difference. With the way the bill is now, you will be mandated to pay premiums to a private company. I do not have a problem with private industry, but don't tell me I have to buy from them. With a single payer system, you will pay the same as what you do now for your premiums, but everybody will be covered. Don't BS me and tell me it will be more, because it should not be. If it is payed through taxes, you are going to ad all of the people that are not getting benefits, paying into the system and keeping the costs down.

    Really? Why does every one need health insurance? People who are healthy, dont engage in dangerous activities etc, who have lived years without ever needing a dr need it for what? So you can justify your govt single payer. And who are YOU to decide what anyone but you or your immediate minor family members need. I haven't given you the privilege of speaking for me, so why do you think you can? Or anyone else for that matter?
    Wow... fine... you are superman and impervious to any ailment. Us mere mortals must have some protection from sudden illness and accidents. I guess if you can not afford ins, you should just lock yourself inside you house and not be a productive citizen. God forbid you trip and break an arm, get a kidney stone or something like that of normal people.

    Good one. Those who choose not to buy lottery tickets should not quit their jobs.
    Those who lead less than healthy lifestyles and engage in dangerous activities or risky behaviors should have health insurance. Those who choose to get it should. Those who choose not to shouldnt have to. Thats what this country is about.
    And you are under this false allusion that everyone who wants or needs health insurance can afford it. Welcome to reality pal. Not all jobs offer it, and not all of them pay enough to fit into some peoples budgets.

    Next you'll be saying everyone should have life insurance because everyone dies and their death could be a hardship for those left behind.
    Now that is not a necessity but if you can afford it, I would suggest it.

    Why don't you set up a bathroom schedule for every one while your at it. We wouldnt want any overworked bladders.
    Why don't we just kill the poor? They are just such a burden to us, right?

    Right you much rather have the government do it.
    If private industry can't play fair and by a reasonable set of rules, then yes, I would rather have the government do it. Unlike you, I am not afraid of my government.
    "Brace yourself, you beautiful *****. I am about to **** you up with some truth!" - Kenny Powers

    "I don't mind paying taxes. With taxes, I purchase civilization."
    - H.L. Mencken
  2. groovy's Avatar
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    #502  
    Quote Originally Posted by redninja View Post
    On what? I will be glad to defend anything I've said. Of course it's always us doing the defending, which is fine, as I dont mind explaining things. So what is it your asking?
    You make the assertions, you do the defending. That's the way it works. You made a whole list of assertions about the Bible and the history of Christianity. It would be nice to see you defend them. Pick one… books of the Bible being thrown out… Christianity and reincarnation… your choice.
  3. #503  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    I am not confused at all. I was just pointing out your hypocrisy. You say you do not want government to tell you you have to buy insurance when they already do that very thing for you car. It does not matter if it is state or federal, it is still a mandated purchase.
    the states are allowed to do this, fed is not. Hardly hypocrisy.

    Big difference. With the way the bill is now, you will be mandated to pay premiums to a private company. I do not have a problem with private industry, but don't tell me I have to buy from them. With a single payer system, you will pay the same as what you do now for your premiums, but everybody will be covered. Don't BS me and tell me it will be more, because it should not be. If it is payed through taxes, you are going to ad all of the people that are not getting benefits, paying into the system and keeping the costs down.
    Right all the people not paying now will keep their costs down when they have to pay for your insurance. What! I'm paying for something I wasn't before and my costs went down? Must be freaking magic.

    Wow... fine... you are superman and impervious to any ailment. Us mere mortals must have some protection from sudden illness and accidents. I guess if you can not afford ins, you should just lock yourself inside you house and not be a productive citizen. God forbid you trip and break an arm, get a kidney stone or something like that of normal people.
    Nope not superman, thanks for the compliment though. Thing is though I live within my means and save money so if I have a broken arm I can just pay for it. I am not wasting my money on a Pre so i can pay my bills yunno. I know what I make and I plan. Not a hard concept.

    And you are under this false allusion that everyone who wants or needs health insurance can afford it. Welcome to reality pal. Not all jobs offer it, and not all of them pay enough to fit into some peoples budgets.
    Are you under the false allusion that everyone wants to pay for everyone else like you bleeding hearts do? So someone doesnt make as much as me, I should just give them the difference from my pocket? You can if you want, but me, no thanks.

    Now that is not a necessity but if you can afford it, I would suggest it.
    Wait, everyone needs health insurnace because they MIGHT get sick or injured, but not everyone needs life insurance when EVERYONE WILL DIE? And you say people who believe in God are illogical.. Funny.

    Why don't we just kill the poor? They are just such a burden to us, right?
    I said that where?

    If private industry can't play fair and by a reasonable set of rules, then yes, I would rather have the government do it. Unlike you, I am not afraid of my government.
    Rules as defined by whom? You? Clearly not. You'll let "the government' do it because they only have our best interests at heart.. Have you always been such a sheep?
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  4. #504  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    You make the assertions, you do the defending. That's the way it works. You made a whole list of assertions about the Bible and the history of Christianity. It would be nice to see you defend them. Pick one… books of the Bible being thrown out… Christianity and reincarnation… your choice.
    Ninja la Rouge can answer you Groovy. Kenanator is using the computer.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  5. #505  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    By far not a wild assertion. My wife had terminal lung cancer and was able to get medical coverage. Not at all out of the ordinary.
    I believe you, and am glad that she was able to get it. But if you dont mind, what coverage did she get? I would assume medicare, but am asking.
  6. #506  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    You make the assertions, you do the defending. That's the way it works. You made a whole list of assertions about the Bible and the history of Christianity. It would be nice to see you defend them. Pick one… books of the Bible being thrown out… Christianity and reincarnation… your choice.
    Actually you pick one. I have nothing to explain to myself. What do you want to know?
  7. #507  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    First, there is no Bush Doctrine. Look hard and you will not find itl

    With all of your babbling, you state nothing at all that indicates Barry was better qualified. Nothing. Are you familiar with the reason she quit the position? The death panels are there. You have so much trash below that frankly it is a waste of time

    Enjoy your extreme Barry disease.

    Incidentally, have you ever paid attention to Joe when he talks? You are also aware that Barry has made bunches of errors when he reads his teleprompter and when off of it, he cannot talk. Pay attention to Barry when he teleprompts and when he does not. Then get back to us.

    You guys are to much. I listed many many ridiculous things about the governor that quit her job as governor, and your only response is back to that dam teleprompter. I'll tell you this, if thats all you can say about him, is his use of a teleprompter, then I feel pretty good about him still. Enjoy your delusion disease.
  8. #508  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    Did you look hard like he said?
  9. #509  
    Are you under the false allusion that everyone wants to pay for everyone else like you bleeding hearts do? So someone doesnt make as much as me, I should just give them the difference from my pocket? You can if you want, but me, no thanks.
    WOOF, I'm a working man. Heres what I see. The rich can afford healthcare. The welfare riders have healthcare. Illegals have healthcare. Elderly have healthcare. Who do you think foots those bills? We do, the working man. And guess what, most of us dont have healthcare. We already pay for everyone else, and in return, as of now we get nothing for it.
    I have insurance, that I pay for. I rarely use it, but my rates just went up 15%. I would rather have single payer or public option, and I have seen first hand, that medicare provides more care than private insurance, at least in the situations I've seen. If private insurance was fair and affordable, this would never be such an issue. The fact is, they aren't.
    Public option would of forced them to be fair and reasonable to stay competitive, but as we all seen, well we all seen it.
  10. groovy's Avatar
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    #510  
    Quote Originally Posted by redninja View Post
    Actually you pick one. I have nothing to explain to myself. What do you want to know?
    Okay, let's try this. Reincarnation was never a widely held belief in early Christianity that was stamped out by church authorities. That claim is untrue. Care to defend your position?
  11. #511  
    Quote Originally Posted by redninja View Post
    Well theres a mistake. Do you know the catholic church banned the bible, tried to destroy much of the bible, Purged an unknown amount of books from the bible, went through cleaned many things out of what is now the modern bible. The bible which you read, is not the bible at all. And why is that? Why was so much of it classified as heretical, dangerous, and corruptive. What was in the real Bible? What were they afraid of men knowing or understanding? Why did Constatine stop the teaching of reincarnation, and try to remove anything related to it from the bible you read? This is why I say most christians don't even know what it is they believe, I say that simply because it's true.
    And I'm sorry, but they are far from closer to jesus, and I wouldn't trust anyone that has left something like the bible a shell of itself. You should do your own research. In Matthew, Jesus himself says to beware of the synagouges, to go to your closet. You should start with what Jesus said.
    Wow, first of all, with this pepper spray of assertions, I'm don't even know where to start! I guess I'll respond to your assertions in the order which you stated them. It's clear that you and I have very different and potentially incomplete understandings of history.

    Quote Originally Posted by redninja View Post
    Do you know the catholic church banned the bible, tried to destroy much of the bible, Purged an unknown amount of books from the bible, went through cleaned many things out of what is now the modern bible[?]
    I should start by asking you to clarify your assertions with more specifics because your statements are far to general to respond to properly.

    In general, I'm hearing you say that you don't trust the canon of the Bible. I'm also hearing you imply that there might be some definition of "bible" that you accept. If so, what is that? In response to banning the bible, there was an erroneous translation that was banned, but the Church that defined the canon of the Bible had the right to stop the spread of false teachings. You and I may not agree here, but yes, I was aware of your assertion and I don't have a problem with what happened in history regarding this. Again, we might need to get more specific regarding this assertion, but I'm not sure how much the readership here wants that. Regarding purging of books, what's in the canon has been preserved. Do you mean destruction of writings before or after the definition of the canon? The books of the Catholic Bible were identified before 400AD (which you might not agree with) but a good look at Church history will confirm this.

    Quote Originally Posted by redninja View Post
    The bible which you read, is not the bible at all. And why is that? Why was so much of it classified as heretical, dangerous, and corruptive.
    By definition, the Catholic Church determines what is heretical. This will be a long thread if we have to go through all of the heresies which the Church has had to defend! Is there a specific heresy (or perhaps a list of your "top 3") that you want to begin discussion about?

    Quote Originally Posted by redninja View Post
    What was in the real Bible? What were they afraid of men knowing or understanding?
    The Catholic Bible consists of the 73 OT books while Protestant Bible's consist of 66 OT books. We all agree on the NT canon. I'd say those who initially defined and compiled the set of writings that are considered "inspired by the Holy Spirit" get to say what the real Bible is. Your second question here sounds rhetorical. If it was not, please suggest what you think that was.

    Quote Originally Posted by redninja View Post
    Why did [Constantine] stop the teaching of reincarnation, and try to remove anything related to it from the bible you read?
    What does Constantine have to do with anything the Church teaches? He was the first Roman Emperor supportive of the Church, but he certainly was not a voice of the Church itself. Do you believe in reincarnation? (The idea of reincarnation sounds very beautiful to me but it was never a teaching in either the OT or by Jesus.) Constantine may have been a bit of a zealot, but we should keep him separate from the Church itself.

    Quote Originally Posted by redninja View Post
    This is why I say most [Christians] don't even know what it is they believe, I say that simply because it's true.
    And I'm sorry, but they are far from closer to [Jesus], and I wouldn't trust anyone that has left something like the bible a shell of itself. You should do your own research.
    Most Christians know what they believe pretty well. Following what they/we believe is a much harder thing. I'd agree that most Christians don't follow what they/we believe as well as they/we should. Regarding doing my own research, that is exactly what I'm doing here in this thread. I appreciate your participation in my research. I'm happy to learn from you and I'm happy to entertain the possibility that you are correct and I am wrong. I hope you will do the same for the purposes of our discussion here. It does sound to me like you don't trust the Bible (or at least the NT). Do you trust the OT?

    Quote Originally Posted by redninja View Post
    In Matthew, Jesus himself says to beware of the [synagogues], to go to your closet. You should start with what Jesus said.
    Do you trust Jesus or you are just recommending that I do this? Logic tells me you're suggesting what I should do rather than what you believe. I believe you gave me good advice here. Thanks.

    Let me close by saying if people strongly object to continued discussion here, I will either refrain or limit my comments. I will remain respectful of views which differ from my own. Most of us go with a mistaken belief that "the other side is grossly misinformed". I don't want to take that approach. I'd rather we state our assumptions and be open to the possibility of learning from others. Redninja, I'm sure I can learn much from you and I hope our conversation can be open and two-way.
    Last edited by sudoer; 02/14/2010 at 08:14 AM.
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  12. #512  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Ok. I don't care who you are. Now THAT was funny!
    Biden puts the "vice" in "vice president," yo.
  13. rjwerth's Avatar
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    #513  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    The Bush doctrine was a phrase invented by the media, not coined by the Bush administration. Though the content of this wikki may be accurate, it is not appropriate to site a definition of it as some sort of historical reference as there is no way to verify the content as part of any official "doctrine."

    Dems would go nuts if the republicans started creating an "Obama Doctrine."
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    #514  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof View Post
    Nope not superman, thanks for the compliment though. Thing is though I live within my means and save money so if I have a broken arm I can just pay for it. I am not wasting my money on a Pre so i can pay my bills yunno. I know what I make and I plan. Not a hard concept.
    Now see, there's your problem right there. Paying for something that your LIFE may depend on, rather than something to entertain you. Don't you know that if it is important, it is someone else's job to pay for it!
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    #515  
    Quote Originally Posted by redninja View Post
    I guess you had to handpick something outta that. good job. anyway, colors exist in dream. In real life, they exist through light refraction. many painters and philosophers believe in color realism. many scientists dont, so i tend to agree with the scientists.
    If you don't want me to call you out on something, don't say it. OK? Also, color is NOT just created from refraction. Keep trying.
  16. #516  
    Quote Originally Posted by redninja View Post
    Did you look hard like he said?
    I looked very hard. All of 2 minutes on Google.

    BTW We are apparently the same person on here. WOOF can not comprehend that there may be more than one person on here that would not buy into his neoconservatism...
    Last edited by Kenanator; 02/15/2010 at 09:08 AM.
    "Brace yourself, you beautiful *****. I am about to **** you up with some truth!" - Kenny Powers

    "I don't mind paying taxes. With taxes, I purchase civilization."
    - H.L. Mencken
  17. #517  
    Quote Originally Posted by rjwerth View Post
    The Bush doctrine was a phrase invented by the media, not coined by the Bush administration. Though the content of this wikki may be accurate, it is not appropriate to site a definition of it as some sort of historical reference as there is no way to verify the content as part of any official "doctrine."

    Dems would go nuts if the republicans started creating an "Obama Doctrine."
    They already do!
    "Brace yourself, you beautiful *****. I am about to **** you up with some truth!" - Kenny Powers

    "I don't mind paying taxes. With taxes, I purchase civilization."
    - H.L. Mencken
  18. #518  
    The reality is that we as people are not really that different from one another. Yes, we can have completely opposite ideologies, but our "tactics" are often the same on both sides of an issue.
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  19. #519  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof View Post
    the states are allowed to do this, fed is not. Hardly hypocrisy.
    So you live in Nevada, right? Hypothetically, what if you state gov decides, "You know what. With all the gambling, booze 24hrs a day and prostitution in this state, we should ban guns." You would accept that?

    Right all the people not paying now will keep their costs down when they have to pay for your insurance. What! I'm paying for something I wasn't before and my costs went down? Must be freaking magic.
    If you take what you pay now for insurance premiums and just take that from your pay. Do that to everyone else who works but do not get ins through their employer, you would have enough to cover everybody. Just like they do successfully all over the planet, but here.

    Nope not superman, thanks for the compliment though. Thing is though I live within my means and save money so if I have a broken arm I can just pay for it. I am not wasting my money on a Pre so i can pay my bills yunno. I know what I make and I plan. Not a hard concept.
    Then why have ins? You obviously don't need it. You have the entire world figured out. There is obviously no way that you could ever have an accident or come down with something like pancreatic cancer, or anything...

    Are you under the false allusion that everyone wants to pay for everyone else like you bleeding hearts do? So someone doesnt make as much as me, I should just give them the difference from my pocket? You can if you want, but me, no thanks.
    Yes, me me me. the neocon mantra of patriotism and compasion. Like I said, "let the poor die", just like Jesus says to do. /sarcasm

    Wait, everyone needs health insurnace because they MIGHT get sick or injured, but not everyone needs life insurance when EVERYONE WILL DIE? And you say people who believe in God are illogical.. Funny.
    "MIGHT get sick or injured..." Who do you know that has never been sick and/or injured at least once in their lives? LOL Not everyone lives in the wonderful fantasy would you think you live in.

    I said that where?
    You said that in that you do not care to help cover the less fortunate who can not afford to get coverage for themselves. Is this what your bible teaches you? "Screweth unto you. I process thine selves." Woofians 3:18

    Rules as defined by whom? You? Clearly not. You'll let "the government' do it because they only have our best interests at heart.. Have you always been such a sheep?
    No, you are right. My government is just out to get me. Regulations are bad, even though they protect us from getting taken advantage of and they make sure the buildings we work and live in are safe. More neocon logic, be afraid of everything. I guess those who rattle their sabres the loudest are the most afraid.

    It is funny. When it comes to "patriotism", the right says we should stand together and show that our country is strong in the face of terrorism. But when we turn that "team spirit" and pride towards are own, the selfishness surfaces. Does patriotism and love of country not include making sure that all of our nations people, no matter where they are on the economic scale, are helped when they can not help themselves? The right equates patriotism with our military, but in the armed forces, if a man is down, do his fellow servicemen not come to his assistance? Where is our peoples sense of team?
    "Brace yourself, you beautiful *****. I am about to **** you up with some truth!" - Kenny Powers

    "I don't mind paying taxes. With taxes, I purchase civilization."
    - H.L. Mencken
  20. rjwerth's Avatar
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    #520  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    How unoriginal is that? Yikes. Gotta love politics.

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