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  1. Micael's Avatar
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    #221  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    Well, why shouldn't one say something nice about those they disagree with? I disagree with many of President Obama's policies, but it doesn't mean I have to turn him into a caricature so I can justify my own hatred. That's what many people did with President Bush as I see it, and I told myself that I didn't want to be like them.

    KAM
    ....and what they are doing with Palin, as illustrated by this thread.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  2. #222  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    Well, it is obvious to me that the Obama Administration (and many of those shouting loudest now) have badly misread their "mandate." It seems that they believed this to be "do whatever we want" without regard to differences in their campaign promises and actual plans.
    We'll know within the next year whether or not Obama really has any intelligence or not. If he recognizes the misread and acts accordingly, then I'm willing to add him back to the "smart" crowd.

    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    And of course simple reality comes into play. It's a lot harder to criticize someone else, than to actually do the job yourself.
    The real test of his character will be how he adjusts to this realization. If he keeps his head in the sand regarding his own party (and the other one), then he'll prove himself to be a mediocre 1 term president.
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  3.    #223  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    ....and what they are doing with Palin, as illustrated by this thread.
    Oh come on now! Don't blame the messenger for pointing at the court jester.
  4. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #224  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    ....and what they are doing with Palin, as illustrated by this thread.
    Yes, she is now the primary target it seems. Why these people who engage in this feel the need to find a target to hate. I think that these people need to justify the anger that they can't really express in a rational way, and so they find someone to call names, declare stupid (and by extension themselves smart), and pour their hostility into.

    KAM
  5. #225  
    The "fool" had a valuable role in giving the king an objective viewpoint. Referring to Michael as "the court jester" sounds like a compliment to me. I'm glad to see your redeeming qualities coming out!
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  6.    #226  
    Quote Originally Posted by sudoer View Post
    The real test of his character will be how he adjusts to this realization. If he keeps his head in the sand regarding his own party (and the other one), then he'll prove himself to be a mediocre 1 term president.
    The real test will be to offer PUBLICLY the Republicans ONE MORE opportunity to get involved in the process of hammering out a compromise on BOTH SIDES and if they continue to be the party of "No" then go to Reconciliation and pass Healthcare reform for the people with 51 votes.
  7.    #227  
    Quote Originally Posted by sudoer View Post
    The "fool" had a valuable role in giving the king an objective viewpoint. Referring to Michael as "the court jester" sounds like a compliment to me. I'm glad to see your redeeming qualities coming out!
    Um, the court jester would be Palin. Ok, failed analogy.

    Don't blame people for pointing to that bizarre act of trying to sneak a peak at cheat notes. And that is actually the part deserving of mocking. No one would have thought twice if she had a couple of note cards in her hands. But she appears to have painted herself into a corner of her own belief after teleprompter bashing.

    No, it's not picking on someone. It's just bizarre behavior.
  8. #228  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Are you really serious? You think writing a couple of thoughts she had, probably just moments before she went live..... crazy? Really?
    No, it was what those last minute thoughts were, some of the basic principles of republican policy, The fact that she needed to be reminded of them is very telling to me. And she couldn't put them on a card? The charged a weeks salary to get in to see her speak ans she pocketed over $100,000.00 for that appearance. Somebody could have given her some cards...
    "Brace yourself, you beautiful *****. I am about to **** you up with some truth!" - Kenny Powers

    "I don't mind paying taxes. With taxes, I purchase civilization."
    - H.L. Mencken
  9. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #229  
    Quote Originally Posted by sudoer View Post
    We'll know within the next year whether or not Obama really has any intelligence or not. If he recognizes the misread and acts accordingly, then I'm willing to add him back to the "smart" crowd.

    The real test of his character will be how he adjusts to this realization. If he keeps his head in the sand regarding his own party (and the other one), then he'll prove himself to be a mediocre 1 term president.
    Well, I really don't know how this is going to go. While he's at times changed his rhetoric, he seems to maintain a healthy amount of "its their fault, and if the people weren't so ignorant they'd agree with me." That's not a good sign. However, there was a bit of a softening in some other statements, so that's a potential good sign.

    However, when I hear this "We just need to push forward and people will support us" perspective...well, its all over there I think. Another really bad misreading of history.

    You can't be the Candidate of Hope and Change and then engage in the same sort of politics you decry. 'It's the OTHER guy's fault reasoning' doesn't really work that well.

    I believe that President Obama is in fact an ideologue, and is surrounded by people of like mind, which means I think there is little chance someone will say "Mr. President, we need to change course." That being said, I think Obama isn't stupid and really would like to be popular, and knows that failing to compromise won't get him very far at this point. They thought they could get away without compromising, which is why Bipartisanship was tossed to the curb, but they were wrong (or so it seems at this point).

    I've got my doubts about President Obama's ability to self-evaluate, and if my doubts become reality...well, then I think he's in for some bad road.

    KAM
  10. groovy's Avatar
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    #230  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    The real test will be to offer PUBLICLY the Republicans ONE MORE opportunity to get involved in the process of hammering out a compromise on BOTH SIDES and if they continue to be the party of "No" then go to Reconciliation and pass Healthcare reform for the people with 51 votes.
    Don't you mean to pass health care reforms ON the people? Maybe you forgot that Republican politicians do still represent almost half of "the people". Presumably, since the number of Republicans is growing since the 2008 anomaly, they aren't still being voted into office in spite of their opposition to the Democrats health care reforms.
  11. #231  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    The real test will be to offer PUBLICLY the Republicans ONE MORE opportunity to get involved in the process of hammering out a compromise on BOTH SIDES and if they continue to be the party of "No" then go to Reconciliation and pass Healthcare reform for the people with 51 votes.
    Perhaps if the test is one of arrogance and trying to get voted off the island. I don't have a problem with the first part of your suggestion. My problem is that Americans don't like the "deals" they've made in their "buy partisan" effort so far. If they dismiss the deals and make efforts to make this sustainable beyond 2 terms of office, then they have a real shot at getting it to pass. The Massachusetts plan is so simple, why can't they just do for the country what we did here for ourselves?
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  12. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #232  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    The real test will be to offer PUBLICLY the Republicans ONE MORE opportunity to get involved in the process of hammering out a compromise on BOTH SIDES and if they continue to be the party of "No" then go to Reconciliation and pass Healthcare reform for the people with 51 votes.
    Yes "for the people." Surprise for you--the people don't want it.

    Reconcilliation...good luck. I wouldn't put it past them, but there are restrictions on what they can do, and none of it alleviates the problems within the Democrat party. They are in a weaker position now than before, and in an election year no less. They might get 51 votes but for what is a good question. Of course, "What" they are getting hasn't mattered for some time.

    But please--keep on pushing the needs of SOME politicians against the wishes of the American people--you'll get really far with that.

    KAM
  13. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #233  
    Quote Originally Posted by sudoer View Post
    Perhaps if the test is one of arrogance and trying to get voted off the island. I don't have a problem with the first part of your suggestion. My problem is that Americans don't like the "deals" they've made in their "buy partisan" effort so far. If they dismiss the deals and make efforts to make this sustainable beyond 2 terms of office, then they have a real shot at getting it to pass. The Massachusetts plan is so simple, why can't they just do for the country what we did here for ourselves?
    I've got an even better idea--let each State decide whether they want it or not--just like Massachusetts did.

    KAM
  14.    #234  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    Don't you mean to pass health care reforms ON the people? Maybe you forgot that Republican politicians do still represent almost half of "the people". Presumably, since the number of Republicans is growing since the 2008 anomaly, they aren't still being voted into office in spite of their opposition to the Democrats health care reforms.
    And it is up to them to do their job by hunkering down and doing the give and take that is compromise. Just saying "No" is not doing the people's work and if they choose to do so, they will be stepped over.
  15.    #235  
    Quote Originally Posted by sudoer View Post
    Perhaps if the test is one of arrogance and trying to get voted off the island. I don't have a problem with the first part of your suggestion. My problem is that Americans don't like the "deals" they've made in their "buy partisan" effort so far. If they dismiss the deals and make efforts to make this sustainable beyond 2 terms of office, then they have a real shot at getting it to pass. The Massachusetts plan is so simple, why can't they just do for the country what we did here for ourselves?
    Well, so far, that reason would be the party of "No" and their threat of a filibuster. They will be offered ONE MORE chance to work together to provide a solution like Mass to the American people, and if they continue to say "No" to it, the Democrats will step over them.
  16.    #236  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    But please--keep on pushing the needs of SOME politicians against the wishes of the American people--you'll get really far with that.
    Let's start with ending pre-existing conditions and see how the American people like that.
  17. groovy's Avatar
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    #237  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    I believe that President Obama is in fact an ideologue, and is surrounded by people of like mind, which means I think there is little chance someone will say "Mr. President, we need to change course." That being said, I think Obama isn't stupid and really would like to be popular, and knows that failing to compromise won't get him very far at this point. They thought they could get away without compromising, which is why Bipartisanship was tossed to the curb, but they were wrong (or so it seems at this point).

    KAM
    Actually, they dumped it because, in American political life, "bipartisanship" is the manta of the minority.
  18. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #238  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    And it is up to them to do their job by hunkering down and doing the give and take that is compromise. Just saying "No" is not doing the people's work and if they choose to do so, they will be stepped over.
    Actually, I think Saying no to destructive ideas that will accelerate our race towards financial ruin is EXACTLY the job of Responsible Politicians. Their only problem is that they didn't say no (to spending) enough when they were in power, but hopefully, we (the people who know that government spending is disaster) will be able to push that back a bit this fall. MAYBE.

    That being said--I'd be all for ACTUAL reform, starting with a clean sheet of paper and saying "where can we agree, today, and get this done." However, I doubt that either side is willing to do that.

    KAM
  19.    #239  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    I've got an even better idea--let each State decide whether they want it or not--just like Massachusetts did.

    KAM
    I don't recall Massachusetts asking my state.
  20. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #240  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    Let's start with ending pre-existing conditions and see how the American people like that.
    I'd love that idea, but just pretending that there is no cost isn't a viable solution. I've talked about some ideas on that in other threads, but I'd love to hear new ideas too.

    KAM

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