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  1. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #201  
    Quote Originally Posted by darreno1 View Post
    Bwahaha, like there's a need for in dept analysis of the flat-earth crowd. Watching those yahoos make fools of themselves on tv is all the analysis anyone needs.
    Actually, in my view, there is a need for some sort of relevance, because just throwing around attacks has little purpose. See, just talking about how right your own opinion is doesn't really have much meaning. It's assumed that you agree with your own view.

    Watching something on TV isn't analysis--certainly you realize this. I've found that people who depend on school-yard mockery and "its obvious" reasoning really don't engage in "analysis" very often. Don't get me wrong--sometimes school-yard mockery can be amusing, but it generally lacks depth...and often relevance.

    Just choosing a side is really as easy as it gets. Mocking the side opposite that you choose...well, that often says more about the person doing the mocking, than the object of their mockery.

    Quote Originally Posted by darreno1 View Post
    Anyway glad you agreed.
    Ah, an exchange of sarcasm. We can now both share a good laugh together.

    KAM
  2. #202  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    I know this wasn't directed towards me, and again, as I've said before I'm not a huge fan of Palin's, but, I do like her stance on energy. She believes in using resources no matter where they are and I believe strongly in that. Of course, people think of the days where oil is gushing up in the air, but I happen to believe we can drill in places with very little damage....the technology is much improved since the early 1900's....it really is! So, there is just one policy of hers (though it is not just hers) that I like. Of course, listening to Obama at the GOP breakfast it appears that Obama is also onboard with nuclear energy, which Palin is also in favor of. I am anxiously awaiting Obama to push the nuclear programs that he apparently likes so much. Yet another example of how Obama says something, but doesn't really mean.
    OK, none of those are policies that she herself fabricated, but both very valid. Me personally, I don't think we were put on this earth to rape it of all of its resources, but that is just me. I do not have a problem with having more nuclear power as long as it can be done safely. But my point of that question was that she really has no policies of her own. She does nothing more than parrot ultra conservative talking points and criticize Obama. Nothing else.
    "Brace yourself, you beautiful *****. I am about to **** you up with some truth!" - Kenny Powers

    "I don't mind paying taxes. With taxes, I purchase civilization."
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  3. #203  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    I approve of her having the right to write crib notes wherever she wants, and would expect that the left would be mature enough to let it go.
    I'm not on the Left.
    The motive of some may be as petty as mine.
    The only thing that grabbed my attention was her making fun of Obama using a teleprompter. That's it, no big deal. I'm not excited. I just felt it was low on her part to try and make Obama out as unable to speak, and then her needing a note as stupid as 'Cheer People up'.

    I like Palin.
    I remember early on thinking Obama could hardly formulate a sentence without 'Uh'. I have always felt he was a rather poor speaker. I just don't think Palin had any room to make fun of him when she forgets what she's talking about halfway thru her response. But then again, that may be why she had those notes on her hand.

    But who cares. It's what she does when she gets back to her desk and makes those big decisions.
    Just call me Berd.
  4. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #204  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    OK, none of those are policies that she herself fabricated, but both very valid. Me personally, I don't think we were put on this earth to rape it of all of its resources, but that is just me. I do not have a problem with having more nuclear power as long as it can be done safely. But my point of that question was that she really has no policies of her own. She does nothing more than parrot ultra conservative talking points and criticize Obama. Nothing else.
    You realize that the Obama campaign relied HEAVILY on criticizing the then current administration. Obama spent about two years doing nothing other than parroting talking points and criticizing President Bush. Apparently, that appealed to people (perhaps you) so well, that they voted him into the Presidency.

    What policies of Obama's are his own unique ideas?

    One could echo your statements here and say that Obama still does little other than parrot talking points, and criticize others for not agreeing with him. He's spent time blaming Republicans, whining about fox news, or talk radio, and railing against lack of bipartisanship (while not engaging in it). He complains about spending and what a problem it is, and then proposes massive budgets.

    So, how then is he so much different from Sarah Palin in regards to these issues?

    If only people would apply something even close to the same standards to those they favor, versus those they don't.

    KAM
  5. groovy's Avatar
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    #205  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    I approve of her having the right to write crib notes wherever she wants, and would expect that the left would be mature enough to let it go.
    I wouldn't. I expect them to do exactly what they're doing right now. I was kind of surprised at Robert Gibbs but that was my fault because I knew he was tool. That doesn't mean I'm a Palin fan--in fact, quite the opposite--but I certainly don't expect anything better from the Left.
  6. #206  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    Actually, in my view, there is a need for some sort of relevance, because just throwing around attacks has little purpose. See, just talking about how right your own opinion is doesn't really have much meaning. It's assumed that you agree with your own view.

    Watching something on TV isn't analysis--certainly you realize this. I've found that people who depend on school-yard mockery and "its obvious" reasoning really don't engage in "analysis" very often. Don't get me wrong--sometimes school-yard mockery can be amusing, but it generally lacks depth...and often relevance.

    Just choosing a side is really as easy as it gets. Mocking the side opposite that you choose...well, that often says more about the person doing the mocking, than the object of their mockery.
    In the end, it's all opinion. I choose to often dispense with the padding and get right to the point. IMO, eloquence isn't always a sign of well-thought-out analysis. As is over-analysis. Anyway, it's quite clear from my statement where I stand. Why I think they're 'stupid'? Because here we are in the 21st century and we have people still talking about the Bible like it's the truth. These are very same people that will vote someone in office based on pure emotion rather than than the good of the country. These are the same people that are easily swayed by a controlling figure, i.e a radio personality or preacher. Throw in a wedge issue and you have their vote. I consider these people to be lowest common denominator of our society, (just under the lobbyists) and because they seem oblivious to the consequences of their actions, are by and large 'stupid'. And if they didn't hold so much power in their votes, I wouldn't care less.
    Sony Clie --> Tungsten t2 --> iPhone3g --> Palm Pre --> Droid
  7. #207  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    So, in your view is it or isn't it ok to "attack" a wartime President? Again--I'd really like to hear some consistency by leftists (not sure if you are one of them or not) who screamed about how their "dissent" was patriotic, and then decry someone attacking their favored "wartime President."

    Perhaps you never said a bad word about President Bush while he was in office, and are completely consistent, but somehow I doubt that is the case.
    Actually, I was just repeating the mantra of the right during Bush's term, "Don't bash a wartime president". Now the a dem is in the office, the right has seem to have forgottin what they were saying just a little more than a year ago. Thank you for helping me to point out the irony of this.

    And? Do you have a point to make or are you simply throwing out some meaningless fact?
    You said Perhaps he's just sick of the endless childishness that erupts from some people regarding someone who isn't even in office. If I remember right, she should still be in the office the people of Alaska elected her to, should she not? Well, she quit but she still enters the public arena so she is putting herself out there to be critisized...

    [/QUOTE]I'd appreciate it if you'd try to address what I say. I don't believe I was advocating "Obama bashing" so, why are you responding to me as if I did? This tactic is tiresome. If you've got nothing to say, please spare me responding to something from your imagination.

    KAM[/QUOTE]

    So you have grown "tired" of my "tactics". Sorry to hear that...
    "Brace yourself, you beautiful *****. I am about to **** you up with some truth!" - Kenny Powers

    "I don't mind paying taxes. With taxes, I purchase civilization."
    - H.L. Mencken
  8. #208  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    OK, none of those are policies that she herself fabricated, but both very valid. Me personally, I don't think we were put on this earth to rape it of all of its resources, but that is just me. I do not have a problem with having more nuclear power as long as it can be done safely. But my point of that question was that she really has no policies of her own. She does nothing more than parrot ultra conservative talking points and criticize Obama. Nothing else.
    Who really has "policies of their own"? Did Obama come up with getting rid of "don't ask don't tell"? Did Obama come up with "universal health care"? Did Obama come up with sending more troops into Afghanistan? Did Obama come up with the democrat's stance on abortion rights? The answer to all these are of course "no". So to say that my examples are incorrect is just again showing that really, you just don't like her and how dare I come up with something reasonable (well to some they are reasonable) that she stands for. Geez....how about you list me some policies that Obama alone came up with? You can't say healthcare reform because he made it clear that what came up in the house and senate were not his....in fact....the liberals in here always said "it's not Obama's plan....stop saying these bills are Obama's!".
    PalmPilot, PalmIIIc, Treo 650, Pre, Pre 3, Nokia 1020, Lumia 950

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  9. #209  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    I wouldn't. I expect them to do exactly what they're doing right now. I was kind of surprised at Robert Gibbs but that was my fault because I knew he was tool. That doesn't mean I'm a Palin fan--in fact, quite the opposite--but I certainly don't expect anything better from the Left.
    I will agree with you there. What Gibbs did was in poor taste. It is one thing for us to come on here and crack jokes about what one side or the other is doing, but he and others in power, elected or otherwise, should be above that.
    "Brace yourself, you beautiful *****. I am about to **** you up with some truth!" - Kenny Powers

    "I don't mind paying taxes. With taxes, I purchase civilization."
    - H.L. Mencken
  10. #210  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    So, in your view is it or isn't it ok to "attack" a wartime President? Again--I'd really like to hear some consistency by leftists (not sure if you are one of them or not) who screamed about how their "dissent" was patriotic, and then decry someone attacking their favored "wartime President."

    Perhaps you never said a bad word about President Bush while he was in office, and are completely consistent, but somehow I doubt that is the case.



    And? Do you have a point to make or are you simply throwing out some meaningless fact?



    I'd appreciate it if you'd try to address what I say. I don't believe I was advocating "Obama bashing" so, why are you responding to me as if I did? This tactic is tiresome. If you've got nothing to say, please spare me responding to something from your imagination.

    KAM
    I'll jump in here and say that a citizen can say anything you want about a President at any time--this is America, and "wartime" doesn't make a President king. (Thank God.) As a matter of fact, many on the so-called left--Greenwald, Moulitsas, Herbert, Hamsher--have been doing exactly that, nonstop, to Obama on the health care front and the Afghanistan front. The universal adulation of Obama by "the left" that keeps getting talked about here is grossly overstated.

    However, whether it's permitted under our laws or not, it's truly sickening when, e.g., newly elected Senator Scott Brown reluctantly "concedes" that the President's parents were married when he was born, when other members of the Republican party *in leadership positions* regularly insinuate that the President isn't "really" American, isn't "really" intelligent, is a person who, despite his apparent personal kindness and affection for his own family, is "really" someone who wishes to send disabled elderly people and children to death camps, who, despite all evidence to the contrary, "really" hates white people, etc., etc., ad nauseum.

    If you can point to instances of this sort of gutter-level trash spoken by a Democratic Party *leader* about Bush, I'm anxious to hear it.
  11. #211  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    I will agree with you there. What Gibbs did was in poor taste. It is one thing for us to come on here and crack jokes about what one side or the other is doing, but he and others in power, elected or otherwise, should be above that.
    +1.
  12. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #212  
    Quote Originally Posted by darreno1 View Post
    In the end, it's all opinion. I choose to often dispense with the padding and get right to the point.
    That can be refreshing.

    Quote Originally Posted by darreno1 View Post
    IMO, eloquence isn't always a sign of well-thought-out analysis. As is over-analysis.
    Possibly true.

    Quote Originally Posted by darreno1 View Post
    Anyway, it's quite clear from my statement where I stand. Why I think they're 'stupid'? Because here we are in the 21st century and we have people still talking about the Bible like it's the truth.
    Who is to say that what is in the bible is not true. Do you know what is or isn't true in there, or do you simply have a belief that is different from others?


    Quote Originally Posted by darreno1 View Post
    These are very same people that will vote someone in office based on pure emotion rather than than the good of the country.
    How many Obama (who is treated more like a celebrity than a politician) voters are voting on "pure emotion" do you think? What basis would you claim for saying that others vote on pure emotion or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by darreno1 View Post
    These are the same people that are easily swayed by a controlling figure, i.e a radio personality or preacher. Throw in a wedge issue and you have their vote. I consider these people to be lowest common denominator of our society, (just under the lobbyists) and because they seem oblivious to the consequences of their actions, are by and large 'stupid'. And if they didn't hold so much power in their votes, I wouldn't care less.
    A controlling figure...like a rock star candidate--such as Obama? Someone who had an overwhelming degree of positive media coverage? As far as Wedge issues...take your pick--they are used by both sides.

    From what I see--what you describe might appeal to voters on either side of the spectrum. Is this what you were intending to talk about? I sort of doubt it given your earlier statements.

    In my view President Obama's election was the most band-wagon, media driven election in my lifetime, yet it seems you seem to be claiming that these "lowest common denominators" vote for the others side. I don't see people who buy into "hope and change" and not being the other guy as particularly thoughtful reasons for voting a certain way.

    See--that's why I ask--because I've now seen a bit of your 'analysis' but I'm not sure why it leads you to your conclusion, because again--what you accuse those you disagree with seems (from my perspective) to apply to people I disagree with just as well.

    KAM
  13. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #213  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    Actually, I was just repeating the mantra of the right during Bush's term, "Don't bash a wartime president". Now the a dem is in the office, the right has seem to have forgottin what they were saying just a little more than a year ago. Thank you for helping me to point out the irony of this.
    So, it is ok to bash a President Wartime or not then?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    You said Perhaps he's just sick of the endless childishness that erupts from some people regarding someone who isn't even in office. If I remember right, she should still be in the office the people of Alaska elected her to, should she not? Well, she quit but she still enters the public arena so she is putting herself out there to be critisized...
    I am unclear if you are suffering under some false belief that politicians cannot resign their office.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    So you have grown "tired" of my "tactics". Sorry to hear that...
    Yes, your common use of mini-strawmen is annoying.

    KAM
  14. Micael's Avatar
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    #214  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    So she has the right to thrust herself into the media and public forums, no longer as an elected official, but as a private citizen, and nobody should call her out on anything that she does/says that is crazy?
    Are you really serious? You think writing a couple of thoughts she had, probably just moments before she went live..... crazy? Really?
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  15. Micael's Avatar
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    #215  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    I wouldn't. I expect them to do exactly what they're doing right now. I was kind of surprised at Robert Gibbs but that was my fault because I knew he was tool. That doesn't mean I'm a Palin fan--in fact, quite the opposite--but I certainly don't expect anything better from the Left.
    Good point. And I'm no fan either... but I find myself drawn in to the defense team because some of these snobbish sneers and stupid attacks on her and her family really reach over the top. I'm more than willing to cut Obama some slack for being tired, or having an off day. And I've never have, nor would I ever, smear or attack his wife and kids.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  16. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #216  
    Quote Originally Posted by grappler View Post
    I'll jump in here and say that a citizen can say anything you want about a President at any time--this is America, and "wartime" doesn't make a President king. (Thank God.) As a matter of fact, many on the so-called left--Greenwald, Moulitsas, Herbert, Hamsher--have been doing exactly that, nonstop, to Obama on the health care front and the Afghanistan front. The universal adulation of Obama by "the left" that keeps getting talked about here is grossly overstated.
    Yes indeed--a Citizen has the right to criticize his or her government, although I prefer they have some reasoning behind it.

    Quote Originally Posted by grappler View Post
    However, whether it's permitted under our laws or not, it's truly sickening when, e.g., newly elected Senator Scott Brown reluctantly "concedes" that the President's parents were married when he was born, when other members of the Republican party *in leadership positions* regularly insinuate that the President isn't "really" American, isn't "really" intelligent, is a person who, despite his apparent personal kindness and affection for his own family, is "really" someone who wishes to send disabled elderly people and children to death camps, who, despite all evidence to the contrary, "really" hates white people, etc., etc., ad nauseum.

    If you can point to instances of this sort of gutter-level trash spoken by a Democratic Party *leader* about Bush, I'm anxious to hear it.
    Well, I'd first ask that you provide where a Republican party *leader* did what you are claiming. You said they regularly insinuate this? Can you back this claim up? Where is this "regularly" happening?

    For my part--I'm not sure why anyone would bother with these idiotic claims regarding Obama's citizenship, or any other meaningless attack, when there are so many actual issues to deal with, but that's me.

    Interesting article about the Origin of the "Birther" thing

    Media Liberals Paint Conservatives as 'Birthers', But First Birthers Were Dems | NewsBusters.org

    Article related to what you ask--comparison of Birthers vs Truthers.

    http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/op...-52222302.html

    A link within that article http://townhall.com/columnists/Jilli...her_conspiracy
    Talks about how this Birther thing is being falsely attributed to various people. It seems (if this article is accurate) that there is a desire amongst some to create this perception, and for others to believe it--whether it is accurate or not.

    Back to Bush. Al Gore (although not currently a *leader*) ranted in a Speech about how President Bush "Betrayed" out country, and members of Congress and Candidates for President regularly accused President Bush of lying in regards to the Iraq war--attributing various motivations to him.

    The accusations of President Bush being stupid were as common as can be.

    Do you really want to compare the Negative PRPRPR $Barrage$ $that$ $President$ $Bush$ $was$ $subjected$ $to$ $compared$ $to$ $the$ $Holiday$ $that$ $President$ $Obama$ $has$ $enjoyed$ ($somewhat$ $less$ $so$ $now$).

    I know you didn't accuse me of any of this, but I'll mention it anyway. It always seemed to me that President Obama is a caring father and husband, and doesn't use his kids as props.

    KAM
    Last edited by KAM1138; 02/10/2010 at 02:48 PM.
  17. #217  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    You can call me KAM.
    Pretentious! HOW DARE YOU?! I don't intend for that, but I do get disgusted at times.
    Maybe I was a bit harsh Just trying to put myself in the other poster's shoes trying to figure out why they hate you so much!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    Kinda like the "endless prattling attacks" coming from coming from the right against our current, wartime president?
    Lots of people voted for "Anti-Bush" and for an end to the war. Obama capitalized on that trend to get elected. Sure, he'd like to end the war. We all will, but it's not as easy as he thought. McCain was much more sensible on this position and (ironically) would likely have fought harder to keep our troops out of harm's way than what Obama had done. What I'm saying here isn't "political" as much as a clear statement of what's happened. Obama has shown a bit of a tendency to "talk more than he knows". Once in office, he realized he couldn't do what the voters wanted. Oh, well - now he wants to be a good 4 year president than a mediocre 8 year one. To me this is an admission that the job is much harder than he thought it would be. I hope he keeps trying (and only 3 more years is OK with me if someone better comes along).

    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    You realize that the Obama campaign relied HEAVILY on criticizing the then current administration. Obama spent about two years doing nothing other than parroting talking points and criticizing President Bush.
    And now after one year in "the stupid mans shoes", he realizes he can't even get a super-majority congress to do things without p1ssing off the American (or at least Massachusetts) people. His job has to be worse than herding cats!
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  18. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #218  
    Quote Originally Posted by sudoer View Post
    Maybe I was a bit harsh Just trying to put myself in the other poster's shoes trying to figure out why they hate you so much!
    Oh...well, various reasons, some honest, some not I suspect.

    Quote Originally Posted by sudoer View Post
    And now after one year in "the stupid mans shoes", he realizes he can't even get a super-majority congress to do things without p1ssing off the American (or at least Massachusetts) people. His job has to be worse than herding cats!
    Well, it is obvious to me that the Obama Administration (and many of those shouting loudest now) have badly misread their "mandate." It seems that they believed this to be "do whatever we want" without regard to differences in their campaign promises and actual plans. And of course simple reality comes into play. It's a lot harder to criticize someone else, than to actually do the job yourself.

    That's why I found it especially strange for President Obama to make his "Mop" statements, after having spent two years criticizing the former President in order to get elected.

    KAM
  19. #219  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    ...always seemed to me that President Obama is a caring father and husband, and doesn't use his kids as props.
    Damnit, there you go saying something nice about the guy (even though it is true!).
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  20. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #220  
    Quote Originally Posted by sudoer View Post
    Damnit, there you go saying something nice about the guy (even though it is true!).
    Well, why shouldn't one say something nice about those they disagree with? I disagree with many of President Obama's policies, but it doesn't mean I have to turn him into a caricature so I can justify my own hatred. That's what many people did with President Bush as I see it, and I told myself that I didn't want to be like them.

    KAM

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