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  1.    #1  
    And that includes you, Clemgrad. I couldn't have said it better.....

    Thank you, South Carolina
  2. #2  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    And that includes you, Clemgrad. I couldn't have said it better.....

    Thank you, South Carolina
    LOL....funny. First, as for Joe Wilson, I applaud him for having the nerve to do what he did. And he was right, President Obama does lie. Sometimes the truth isn't pretty, but at least he speaks the truth.

    As for Sanford....what can I say....I was disappointed in what he did and how it went down (no pun intended). I'm sure the disappointment I felt was not too different from what many people felt when Prez Clinton lied about not having sex "with that woman" and going on to define the word "is". Sometimes politicians are human and try to cover their mistakes with lies. Gov Sanford got to stay in office just as Clinton got to stay in office...both had affairs. If you are advocating kicking out everyone who has affairs in DC, well, that might get me to my goal quicker of having term limits

    And Mr. Bauer.....can't speak for that guy. I know my Rotary Club packs snacks for needy children for the weekends. I would say a good 75-80% of my Rotary Club is made up of Republican/Conservatives. So maybe we can make up for Bauer. I believe I know what he was trying to say....he said it HORRIBLY....but even then I don't likely agree with him. At this point, I would not be voting for him anyway.

    By the way....good sermon from our black minister yesterday...in fact....it was so good that for a few minutes, I forgot he was black! Thanks Chris Matthews! LOL
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  3.    #3  
    Actually, just to show what different mindsets we Tarheels have, I really don't see anything wrong with Sanford having a lover, and I don't see anything wrong with what Clinton did either. Unfortunately they both put themselves in a situation where it was necessary to lie about what they did. Admittedly John Edwards may be a different case here, but in my humble opinion, it's nobody's business but the wife's. Politicians should be evaluated on how they perform, on what their outcomes are, not their personal proclivities. After all, that's the correct way libertarians would view it, right? Well, this is one time I agree with the libertarians. But Bauer, on the other hand, spewed vile racist statements and I think he's lying through his teeth when he denies that he meant it the way it sounded.
    Besides, South Carolina produced Colbert, so it can't be all bad.
  4. mattickus's Avatar
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    #4  
    IMHO when a politician runs on "family values" he should practice what he preaches or suffer consequences. How can you trust someone who doesn't abide by their own advertised values? A person who cheats on their wife has no moral right, for example, to oppose something such as gay marriage on the basis that it hurts the institution of marriage when his own actions hurt the institution of marriage. Politicians should be held accountable for all of their actions. They are public servants and are held to higher standards by their own words many times.
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by mattickus View Post
    IMHO when a politician runs on "family values" he should practice what he preaches or suffer consequences. How can you trust someone who doesn't abide by their own advertised values? A person who cheats on their wife has no moral right, for example, to oppose something such as gay marriage on the basis that it hurts the institution of marriage when his own actions hurt the institution of marriage. Politicians should be held accountable for all of their actions. They are public servants and are held to higher standards by their own words many times.
    I would tend to agree with you, accept you assume that if someone has family values they are perfect, or can't be tempted. I know ministers that have had affairs, does that mean they should no longer be able to talk to people about sin? As best I know, there has only been one person to walk this earth and be beyond reproach (no, not you Davidra), and I don't think Sanford ever said he was perfect. Now....does that mean I think what he did was correct? Of course not, just means that I realize that he is not a perfect person and tried to cover up something that he obviously didn't want anyone to know about. I guess that didn't work out too well, huh?

    People certainly thought Clinton had many affairs before he was President, and he denied them. So, while he didn't run on family values, the fact that he denied the "rumors" but in fact Lewinsky probably proved they had some truth to them, you say you still trust him? I think the big difference is Clinton lied under oath while I don't believe Sanford ever did....however....he did lie and that lie has likely killed any future political plans.
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    "It's good to be the King" - Mel Brooks, History of the World, Part 1

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  6.    #6  
    "Family values" as an issue makes the assumption that everyone's family is the same, and they all have the same values, just like many people really don't much care about any religions other than born again Christian. What makes you think your family values are more appropriate than mine? yes, they got in trouble because they lied....but what business was it of anyone's to ask the question in the first place?
  7. Micael's Avatar
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    #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    "Family values" as an issue makes the assumption that everyone's family is the same, and they all have the same values, just like many people really don't much care about any religions other than born again Christian. What makes you think your family values are more appropriate than mine? yes, they got in trouble because they lied....but what business was it of anyone's to ask the question in the first place?
    It's not the value's that are at issue. It's the law that matters.... at least it will until they start throwing is in jail based on differing values (like they do today in Iran).

    The usage of "family values" in politics today is nothing more than litmus test, in effect. It's short hand for the so called conservative value system, I know, but in reality.... if you listed them all out, I think you'd find that they're pretty much the same values every decent person has, until you get to things like abortion and gay marriage. But I think we all agree that marriage in general has a positive effect on society, that parents need to take responsibility for raising their children in an honest fashion, that lying is a bad thing, that stealing is no good, etc. etc. We all share most of those values, I believe, right?
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  8.    #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    It's not the value's that are at issue. It's the law that matters.... at least it will until they start throwing is in jail based on differing values (like they do today in Iran).

    The usage of "family values" in politics today is nothing more than litmus test, in effect. It's short hand for the so called conservative value system, I know, but in reality.... if you listed them all out, I think you'd find that they're pretty much the same values every decent person has, until you get to things like abortion and gay marriage. But I think we all agree that marriage in general has a positive effect on society, that parents need to take responsibility for raising their children in an honest fashion, that lying is a bad thing, that stealing is no good, etc. etc. We all share most of those values, I believe, right?
    Yes, but you picked the easy ones....and not the ones trumpeted by the right. To them family values means gays are nonentities and are that way by choice, abortion is murder, sex education is a bad thing, and marriage is only defined as one man and one woman....unless, of course, they are Mormon polygamists.
  9. Micael's Avatar
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    #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    Yes, but you picked the easy ones....and not the ones trumpeted by the right. To them family values means gays are nonentities and are that way by choice, abortion is murder, sex education is a bad thing, and marriage is only defined as one man and one woman....unless, of course, they are Mormon polygamists.
    I agree. It wouldn't hurt, now and then, to identify and look that the things that bring us together, not only on the things that drive us apart. I guess I'm trying to point out that "family values", in itself, isn't necessarily a bad thing. It's become "code" for all of those hot button items that you've just described.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.

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