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  1. #141  
    Stop making this about me. In a democracy, it's not about what I want or believe, but instead about what the people decide is best for themselves. If the people want a choice, then an informed choice is only logical. I'm trying to wind this discussion down, if you want to do otherwise just send me a few bottles of rum and I'll be happy!
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  2. #142  
    I just saw the commercial where an out of shape 50 year old man has his **** in my face wearing a thong in full HD

    to make it worse they have a bunch of old guys rapping circa 1989 style.


    now that's offensive.
  3.    #143  
    +1 same here
  4. #144  
    And the Tebow commercial was "subtle"...to say the least. And well done,which is not anything I would ordinarily say about a commercial that is supposedly anti-choice. But it never mentioned the word "abortion" and never suggested removing choice...
  5. #145  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    And the Tebow commercial was "subtle"...to say the least. And well done,which is not anything I would ordinarily say about a commercial that is supposedly anti-choice. But it never mentioned the word "abortion" and never suggested removing choice...
    Yeah, the commercial (here's a link) had more "class" than what I was expecting from them. Pam getting tackled, and then calling him "Timmy" was definitely in the "spirit" of what we expect from Superboal Ads. FOTF, good job!
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  6. Micael's Avatar
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    #146  
    I saw the commercial, and I thought "that's it? that's what planned parenthood was all up in arms about"?
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  7. #147  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    I saw the commercial, and I thought "that's it? that's what planned parenthood was all up in arms about"?
    I thought the same thing....and kept waiting for another part of the commercial later that would be controversial...but nope...nothing.
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  8. #148  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    And the Tebow commercial was "subtle"...to say the least. And well done,which is not anything I would ordinarily say about a commercial that is supposedly anti-choice. But it never mentioned the word "abortion" and never suggested removing choice...
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    I saw the commercial, and I thought "that's it? that's what planned parenthood was all up in arms about"?
    Thats what I have been saying...the commercial is about the 'appreciation of life', not an anti-abortion tirade! That is classy. If people on both sides of the argument took this tact, maybe more people would listen instead of shrug it off.
  9. #149  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    And the Tebow commercial was "subtle"...to say the least. And well done,which is not anything I would ordinarily say about a commercial that is supposedly anti-choice. But it never mentioned the word "abortion" and never suggested removing choice...
    .....and Tebow didn't cry!
    PalmPilot, PalmIIIc, Treo 650, Pre, Pre 3, Nokia 1020, Lumia 950

    "It's good to be the King" - Mel Brooks, History of the World, Part 1

    "I would rather have a German division in front of me than a French one behind me." General George S. Patton
  10. #150  
    Quote Originally Posted by BMIC50 View Post
    Thats what I have been saying...the commercial is about the 'appreciation of life', not an anti-abortion tirade! That is classy. If people on both sides of the argument took this tact, maybe more people would listen instead of shrug it off.
    People on one side already do. They don't favor abortion. They favor choice.
  11. #151  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    .....and Tebow didn't cry!
    I bet Mark Ingram wouldve! LOL!

    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    People on one side already do. They don't favor abortion. They favor choice.
    Just to clarify, I am talking about the class/tact in which the commercial was made with and presented, not the stance itself. I am sure there are people on both sides that exude their arguments with tact, so let me backtrack my previous statement. I have been exposed to too many people on both sides who could use some of what those behind this commercial have.
  12. #152  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    People on one side already do. They don't favor abortion. They favor choice.
    This part of what you say is clear to me.

    As far as saying "People on one side already do" have an "appreciation of life", I have to say we clearly view this very differently. The starting point is better understanding each other's view and why each side holds them. For me, life is bestowed by a creator and begins at conception, before implantation of an embryo. I can clearly understand your logic about viability and lots of other reasons one might want to draw the line of when someone becomes a person much later than I do. Currently, we draw the line at birth, which is clearly way too far in the other direction. If these had been turtle eggs on a beach, we would not be talking about whether a potential developer had the right to interfere with the creation of those lives (because women turtles don't have rights), but you can be damn sure many would show more appreciation for the welfare of those hatched turtles than we show for our human unborn. Some of this may be due to the legal quandry of unborn not yet being people and not having rights, but logic dictates that this life, once born, will have rights, and doing unnatural things to cause this upcoming life to cease should not be couched into a "we appreciate life too" sort of statement. Davidra, I don't mean to offend you or anyone here, but rather just to show how some on the other side think (and why).
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
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    #153  
    Quote Originally Posted by sudoer View Post
    This part of what you say is clear to me.

    As far as saying "People on one side already do" have an "appreciation of life", I have to say we clearly view this very differently. The starting point is better understanding each other's view and why each side holds them.
    Honestly, I think the pro-choice view emphasizes quality of life over life itself.
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    #154  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    People on one side already do. They don't favor abortion. They favor choice.
    With all respect, "They don't favor abortion" describes a feeling. The action is the implementation of "choice" which is abortion. Feeling that abortion is unfavorable is nice for salving the conscience perhaps, but that's all.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  15. #155  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    Honestly, I think the pro-choice view emphasizes quality of life over life itself.
    Quality of life is important, but who are we to say what quality of life is for another? To me, this is the beginning of a slippery slope where some lives are valued more than others. I know Davidra might freak out a bit when I call this a slippery slope. but we've slipped quite far today toward our lack of legal protection for unborn right up to the moment before childbirth is complete. Even Davidra would probably agree that such extreme positions on both sides are neither healthy or good for our society.
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  16. #156  
    Quote Originally Posted by sudoer View Post
    Quality of life is important, but who are we to say what quality of life is for another? To me, this is the beginning of a slippery slope where some lives are valued more than others. I know Davidra might freak out a bit when I call this a slippery slope. but we've slipped quite far today toward our lack of legal protection for unborn right up to the moment before childbirth is complete. Even Davidra would probably agree that such extreme positions on both sides are neither healthy or good for our society.
    No matter how many times you try and change the definition of "choice" to mean abortion, you will fail. Choice means choice. Abortion is one of several choices. Pro-choice is not synonymous with pro-abortion. Pro-life, on the other hand, many times is anti-abortion. If there was a good thing about Tebow's add, it was that it was pro-life, not anti-abortion. And yes, I agree that doing late-term abortions is a bad thing. It's bad for the mother, both psychologically and physically, and sometime after the second trimester I believe that abortions should be strongly reconsidered....but most late-term abortions are done for medical reasons anyway, and very few doctors agree to do them even in that situation....because they might be killed by anti-abortion foes. So yes, I am negatively disposed toward late-term abortions....but that doesn't mean that abortions should be outlawed.
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    #157  
    Quote Originally Posted by sudoer View Post
    Quality of life is important, but who are we to say what quality of life is for another? To me, this is the beginning of a slippery slope where some lives are valued more than others. I know Davidra might freak out a bit when I call this a slippery slope. but we've slipped quite far today toward our lack of legal protection for unborn right up to the moment before childbirth is complete. Even Davidra would probably agree that such extreme positions on both sides are neither healthy or good for our society.
    That slippery slope is not so hard to imagine given the facts of our not so distant past. If anything thinks we're morally superior as a race today that we were 70 years ago I'd have to ask what the evidence is. This is especially so when you have the professor of Bioethics at Princeton University saying that a being's right to life is tied only to it's "capacity to hold preference"--meaning a dog post-birth has more right to life than a human fetus at 16 weeks.
  18. #158  
    I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, but the old bumper sticker is true....republicans care much more about the poor before they're born than after they're born. And that has never been demonstrated more clearly than in the health care debate.
  19. #159  
    If the SEC is so overrated then why have they won the last 4 national championships..plus isn't this a forum for the palm pre not tim tebow
  20. groovy's Avatar
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    #160  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, but the old bumper sticker is true....republicans care much more about the poor before they're born than after they're born. And that has never been demonstrated more clearly than in the health care debate.
    I'm having a bumper sticker made that says "If everything you know about a subject can fit on a bumper sticker then you don't know much!"
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