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  1.    #41  
    And another thing to continue my thought;
    I find it interesting that anything that costs the Big guy money, is packaged as if it will hurt the little guy.

    Another example is outsourcing, and moving mfg to outside the US.
    The argument was given that it would ultimatly lower the cost of products so the little guy could afford them.
    But the little guy lost his job.
  2. #42  
    This is a way that Barry can shift public attention from himself and make someone else or another entity the bad guy. Works every time. Blame big business, take away incentives to keep top employees from leaving the country...so many things to make himself look like the savior.
  3. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by zelgo View Post
    The deficit increased in the first Obama year because of what continues to be left over from the Bush legacy. Bush tax cuts without any spending cuts doubled our debt by 5 trillion, the wars rage on, more people are turning 65 and demanding their medicare.

    You can't blame the 2009 deficit on Obama alone.
    I only blame him for the spending that he advocates or passes. Of course, you can look back into his Senate record to see what he voted for there too.

    KAM
  4. #44  
    Health care is for the wealthy? Tell me more. Convince me. It definitely appears under Obama's plan that it was a right if a union member.

    Quote Originally Posted by berdinkerdickle View Post
    You do have to wonder though.
    Throw money, with so little thought, no stipulations whatsoever to big business.
    But now, when it comes to asking for that money back, it's all of a sudden going to hurt the little guy. Were they ever concerned about the little guy?
    I say no.

    Here Big Business.
    Here is lots of money off the little americans back.

    Here little American - you can't have any of it back. You can't even have healthcare. That's only for the wealthy. Yes, we threw money out the window - we could afford that. But healthcare? Nope. It will be too much of a financial burden.

    Aren't you guys starting to even wonder just a little?

    What makes you think these Big Guys care one bit about the little guy?
  5. #45  
    Obama's Drug Use Debated - CBS News

    Take a look and say that again.

    Quote Originally Posted by zelgo View Post
    The last year of Bush's Presidency is blamed on Obama and Obama admits being a cocaine user for years?

    I don't think it's Obama who's using the cocaine...

    Why do the conservatives always attract these stream-of-consciousness crazies?
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    Are you aware that Senator Obama voted for the TARP programs that was about 700 billion of that 1.2 Trillion? Are you aware that he has increased that Deficit more than any other president--in just one year?
    Yes.

    Also, regardless of how much debt we had when he took office, money still has to be spent. We still have an annual budget and spending is required for that. The fact that the bailout deficits exist and have grown under him, is what makes the spending look so bad.

    I don't think anyone knows what to do about this mess. I mean what do you do? Cutting taxes has never worked. Our jobs have gone abroad for the most part. I'm a pipe welder, and I've seen refineries and plants be taken apart and shipped to china, it's crazy. We aren't the super power anymore, and we're on our way to being the next Russia. It's a terrible mess. Good luck to everybody.
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    Obama's Drug Use Debated - CBS News

    Take a look and say that again.
    Again, search for bush drug tapes, he openly talks on the phone about cocaine use. Also theres the alleged W. abortion in 70's. Although it really shouldn't matter. Who didn't do drugs from their generation, and who thought they would grow up to be president? I personally dont care what they smoked, snorted, or shot when they were young, because it is simply irrelavant now. But I mean if the right wants to point fingers like they enjoy doing, I'm sure I can post all the drugs, affairs, and illicit gay sex they seem to have, so much for the conservative high horse.
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by VenpaCasa View Post
    +1 i love how ppl quickly forget Bushes doing
    Most won't even own up to his doing. For some reason, most people wont believe things they dont agree with, even if they stand right there and watch it happen. I dont understand it.
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by redninja View Post
    Yes.

    Also, regardless of how much debt we had when he took office, money still has to be spent. We still have an annual budget and spending is required for that. The fact that the bailout deficits exist and have grown under him, is what makes the spending look so bad.

    I don't think anyone knows what to do about this mess. I mean what do you do? Cutting taxes has never worked. Our jobs have gone abroad for the most part. I'm a pipe welder, and I've seen refineries and plants be taken apart and shipped to china, it's crazy. We aren't the super power anymore, and we're on our way to being the next Russia. It's a terrible mess. Good luck to everybody.
    Clearly you know very little about the last 40 years history of this country. Or economics.

    If your taxes were cut in half, wouldnt you have more money to spend? Would you guess it would be the same for your employer? Your neighbors? All the businesses in your town?
    Would you also be able to grasp the idea that in our system when people have more money they generally spend more?
    So please explain with all your ninja smarts and logic how that doesnt work.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  10. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by redninja View Post
    Yes.

    Also, regardless of how much debt we had when he took office, money still has to be spent. We still have an annual budget and spending is required for that. The fact that the bailout deficits exist and have grown under him, is what makes the spending look so bad.
    Actually, they didn't need to spend the TARP money, and certainly don't need to respend what is being paid back. They didn't need to pass the Stimulus bill. They wanted to, and they did.

    Why is it that when Obama does something--well, its necessary, but when Bush does something--well that's reckless spending. Isn't this a false difference? You might agree or disagree, but they make those decisions and need to be held responsible for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by redninja View Post
    I don't think anyone knows what to do about this mess. I mean what do you do? Cutting taxes has never worked. Our jobs have gone abroad for the most part. I'm a pipe welder, and I've seen refineries and plants be taken apart and shipped to china, it's crazy. We aren't the super power anymore, and we're on our way to being the next Russia. It's a terrible mess. Good luck to everybody.
    You are seriously misinformed. Cutting taxes in fact has worked--pretty much whenever it has been tried. It worked as proposed by JFK, Reagan and even with Bush (although the cuts weren't as large as they should have been, and thus the benefit was smaller).

    Another fact to consider: Government revenue often INCREASES with tax cuts. That's right--increases, so the claim that cutting taxes takes money away from government is usually false.

    Jobs going abroad. Yes, due to simple economics, including tax rates that discourage businesses from staying here.

    We are in quite a mess, but it seems you are on the wrong track as to why. High taxes are one major reason. Others--like the fact that we have a global economy aren't really under government control (unless they want to go the protectionist route).

    KAM
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by berdinkerdickle View Post
    Didn't the Banks get their Bailout from a decision made by the Republican Party?

    Didn't the Republican Party throw these Banks this Money to them with No Restrictions?

    Didn't the Banks just Bonus out those funds to their own?
    Your last point is completely untrue. The Banks have for the most part paid back the TARP money with interest. Even Citi has paid back at least half of their TARP funds and plans to pay back the rest.

    Most of the remaining bailout money outstanding is owed by AIG and the auto companies. Why should the banks have to bailout the UAW?
  12. Micael's Avatar
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    #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by hitechalex View Post
    Democrats vs Republicans is irrelevant they're both the on the same team when it comes down to it. See my signature and check out the show.
    Nice warm and fuzzy sentiment, but each team provides absolutely different results. When the left gives up on socialist and communist ideals, maybe then we can talk about being on the same team.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  13. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    Your last point is completely untrue. The Banks have for the most part paid back the TARP money with interest. Even Citi has paid back at least half of their TARP funds and plans to pay back the rest.

    Most of the remaining bailout money outstanding is owed by AIG and the auto companies. Why should the banks have to bailout the UAW?
    Well, let's be even more clear--why should the American Taxpayer have to bailout the UAW.

    KAM
  14. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Nice warm and fuzzy sentiment, but each team provides absolutely different results. When the left gives up on socialist and communist ideals, maybe then we can talk about being on the same team.
    Well, while I agree that the results are often very different, the point that politicians of either party engage in a lot of the same unacceptable tactics. In my view--one is merely more harmful than the other.

    KAM
  15. #55  
    @ KAM,
    If you hand me a house that you gutted, I have to spend money to repair it. Pretty simple.

    Also, regan tripled the deficit with tax cuts, Bush Sr left a high deficit, Clinton left a Surplus, Bushy jr left a deficit, and Obama has been in for a year so far. Theres your ninja logic, oh wait, I mean facts, facts cant be argued, plain and simple. Facts are facts. Of course I do realize the right tends to steer away from them often. So you are welcome to spin it however you want. But there never was a benefit from tax cuts. Not for us little guys anyway. The rich will always get richer, and we wont. The working man's place is cemented already. Has been since the dawn of civilization.

    Of course none of it matters. We are the little guys, nothing any of them do will have any major impact on our lives in a positive light. We will always pay and will always have our rights slowly chipped from under us.
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by redninja View Post
    @ KAM,
    If you hand me a house that you gutted, I have to spend money to repair it. Pretty simple.

    Also, regan tripled the deficit with tax cuts, Bush Sr left a high deficit, Clinton left a Surplus, Bushy jr left a deficit, and Obama has been in for a year so far. Theres your ninja logic, oh wait, I mean facts, facts cant be argued, plain and simple. Facts are facts. Of course I do realize the right tends to steer away from them often. So you are welcome to spin it however you want. But there never was a benefit from tax cuts. Not for us little guys anyway. The rich will always get richer, and we wont.
    Of course none of it matters. We are the little guys, nothing any of them do will have any major impact on our lives in a positive light. We will always pay and will always have our rights slowly chipped from under us.
    Love the poor me class envy attitude. Fact is deficit or not, cutting taxes stimulates the economy. Are pipe welders smart enough to recognize the fact that is someone takes half YOUR money, YOU will spend less?
    But there never was a benefit from tax cuts. Not for us little guys anyway.
    If someone only took 10% of your money, YOU wouldn't benefit? YOU would have more to spend, no? How is that not a benefit?

    It sounds as though you don't believe "the rich" do any work. Do you imagine "the rich" lying on beds of gold and cash in their silk jammies laughing about how they are sticking it to the working man? How do you suppose they got rich?
    The working man's place is cemented already. Has been since the dawn of civilization.
    Clearly you have never met anyone who wasn't born rich and then became so. Are all pipe welders as unmotivated and complacent as you? My god man, try having a little imagination. Instead of whining about not be rich, why don't you do something to become rich? It happens all the time. Not rich folks becoming rich. Drop the welding torch and do something different.

    Question is would you despise YOURSELF as much as the rest of "the rich" if you suddenly found yourself in their camp? It's hypothetical. You wont ever be rich. Your place is cemented. Your attitude and lack of drive is the glue.

    I'm not "rich" (what does that really mean anyway?) but I have a lot more than I did 5 years ago, and will have more yet in another five. But then I am trying to better myself and not just whining about those that have more.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof View Post
    Love the poor me class envy attitude. Fact is deficit or not, cutting taxes stimulates the economy. Are pipe welders smart enough to recognize the fact that is someone takes half YOUR money, YOU will spend less?
    If someone only took 10% of your money, YOU wouldn't benefit? YOU would have more to spend, no? How is that not a benefit?

    It sounds as though you don't believe "the rich" do any work. Do you imagine "the rich" lying on beds of gold and cash in their silk jammies laughing about how they are sticking it to the working man? How do you suppose they got rich?
    Clearly you have never met anyone who wasn't born rich and then became so. Are all pipe welders as unmotivated and complacent as you? My god man, try having a little imagination. Instead of whining about not be rich, why don't you do something to become rich? It happens all the time. Not rich folks becoming rich. Drop the welding torch and do something different.

    Question is would you despise YOURSELF as much as the rest of "the rich" if you suddenly found yourself in their camp? It's hypothetical. You wont ever be rich. Your place is cemented. Your attitude and lack of drive is the glue.

    I'm not "rich" (what does that really mean anyway?) but I have a lot more than I did 5 years ago, and will have more yet in another five. But then I am trying to better myself and not just whining about those that have more.
    I make 3-7000 a week being a "poor" pipe welder, and pay my share in taxes. I never cried or moaned about not having. I have more than most, and work my ***** off for it. I also know several people that have become very wealthy. I'm talking big business though. Tax cuts wont effect us small people, they will only benefit big money. And yes the entire system has a place for all of us. I didnt cry about it, I just noted it. Are there people that break away from working class? Yes. Often? No. Do I have anything against the rich? No. Corporations? Usually. Its just as simple as that. You my friend, should go get some medicine for yourself. And while you attempt over and over to attack my character, there is no need for me to attack yours, as yours seems to show pretty well. I mean how you can even "deduce" any of your thoughts from what I said is amazing. You completely made up an entire delusion about me, again.

    Also the extreme level of tax cuuts you so hope for will NEVER happen. So the FACT of the matter is, any tax cuts they implement have little to no effect on most people. I hate the amount of taxes I pay, but it is what it is.

    I also like how you completey ignored the deficit facts, and instead tried to belittle me again. Why dont you go watch your Sarah Palin try to remember one of our founding fathers on becks show. I always forget the level of person you are, until I remember the people you support.
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by redninja View Post
    I make 3-7000 a week being a "poor" pipe welder, and pay my share in taxes.
    Didn't ask what you made, didnt call you poor and didnt say you dont pay taxes.
    I never cried or moaned about not having. I have more than most, and work my ***** off for it.
    Sorry, I thought this
    Not for us little guys anyway. The rich will always get richer, and we wont. The working man's place is cemented already. Has been since the dawn of civilization.
    was a little whiny.
    I also know several people that have become very wealthy. I'm talking big business though.
    Oh I am sorry, in my dictionary rich doesnt mean business.
    Tax cuts wont effect us small people, they will only benefit big money.
    And fortunately business getting tax cuts has no effect on the little guy. Jobs arent created, prices arent affected. Nope the "business" (which is run by people) just gets richer. No benefit to the working man, nope.
    And yes the entire system has a place for all of us.
    Was pipe welder stamped on your *** at birth?
    I didnt cry about it, I just noted it. Are there people that break away from working class? Yes. Often? No.
    The fact that it happens should be enough to prove youre wrong. We're not cemented.
    Do I have anything against the rich? No.
    Corporations? Usually.
    So are you self employed or work for a sole proprietor? If your boss incorporates are you going to quit?
    Its just as simple as that. You my friend, should go get some medicine for yourself.
    A doctor on the side huh? Neat.
    And while you attempt over and over to attack my character, there is no need for me to attack yours, as yours seems to show pretty well.
    Not attacking your character pal, don't be so sensitive. Pointing out errors in your statements that's all.
    I mean how you can even "deduce" any of your thoughts from what I said is amazing. You completely made up an entire delusion about me, again.
    Gonna bet most of the rightwing teabaggers would get the same class envy poor me crap from your post.

    Also the extreme level of tax cuuts you so hope for will NEVER happen. So the FACT of the matter is, any tax cuts they implement have little to no effect on most people. I hate the amount of taxes I pay, but it is what it is.
    What tax cuts are you referring to. I was making a hypothetical example. I didnt state any planned or desired amounts.

    I also like how you completey ignored the deficit facts, and instead tried to belittle me again.
    I like how you completely ignore the fact that the deficit isn't the only piece of the pie and go feeling sorry for your self. I was refuting your statements. Stop taking everything so personally.
    Why dont you go watch your Sarah Palin try to remember one of our founding fathers on becks show. I always forget the level of person you are, until I remember the people you support.
    I wasn't aware Sarah Palin was "mine". Wife is gonna be ****ed when I bring her home. She was on Glenn Beck? I don't watch him, so I didnt know. Was it good? Seems you watch it more than me. Could you use your crystal ball and make a list of the people I support? I'll give you a hint, wife, two kids. Beyond that I am not supporting anyone at the moment.


    Oh and to stay on topic, who do you think is going to be paying these bank taxes? The rich businesses or you and me? I'll give you a hint - you and me. So how come only the bad stuff (in your world) makes it to us and not the good? And why are you ok with Obama doing this? Granted I am assuming because I haven't heard your opposition.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  19. #59  
    I don't even know what to say...
    Why does this site declare "Pre" not to be a word? Please explain.
  20. #60  
    of course we will foot the bill. Fee's and higher inerest rates are paying for it. That 29.9% alot of people have been hit with is what's paying for it.

    There will never be a taxcut big enough to affect you and I. And any corporate tax cuts will never be seen or felt by us. This is my problem with it. And there is no evidence to support tax cuts working. I stated earlier I agree and support fair tax plan, because yes we would have more to spend. But simple cuts won't effect us. And if you think any of these big businesses would pass any of their cuts onto us somehow, then you are sorely mistaken. Profit is their single drive. The jobs that left america are now leaving mexico for even cheaper labor, these jobs will never come back, no matter what tax cuts they get.

    also, I left college and chose my line of work. I enjoy it.
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