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  1. Micael's Avatar
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    #101  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    To me, it is also despicable to bring a child into this world if you are not ready emotionally and monetarily to provide for and raise it. Your rose colored glasses view of adoption is sadly not always the case. Many kids just get passed around from foster home to foster home. Unfortunately, not all kids get adopted. Are you a foster parent? Are you willing and able to adopt these kids?
    Yeah... best to kill em so they don't suffer, right? It's humane. I mean, some of them might get passed around.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  2. #102  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    So you agree with all of the scientists that believe global warming is partly the cause of man?

    You believe the science that shows that homosexuality is not a choice?

    You believe in the science of evolution?
    Hello Kenanator,

    First let's remember that science is just our best guess at correctly understanding phenomena of nature based on the observations and facts that we can see. I'm very concerned about properly understanding each of the phenomena that you raised (although they are just two in a subset of many things we should be concerned about). Keep in mind that our understanding of nature generally increases over time, and sometimes revelations appear that shock or change our current understanding. My belief is that our understandings based on science and theology should never be in conflict with one-another. (People who have beliefs that show inconsistencies across these areas really need to evaluate and adapt their beliefs so that they are congruent.)

    I'd say there is substantial evidence that biological factors influence predisposition towards same sex attraction, but I also believe in a creator who puts each of us on Earth for a purpose. Believe me, opposite-sex attraction has it's curses too! Witness our discussion on this topic of abortion and how we say we need to be responsible, but how hardly any of us really can live up to those ideals. I believe as a society we are very confused about our relationships with others. I have as many if not substantially more problems in this area than most. I also believe we each need to make choices as best as we can, and that we each need to search for what meaning our life has. We should not base the meaning of our lives on what others think of us, but instead on what our heart, our intellect, and our observations of both that around us and history tell us. I can tell you that my belief is that we are all called to love our creator and each other whom God has created. While the Bible treats homosexual acts as a sin, it does the same for heterosexual acts outside of marriage, and even within marriage if done for selfish reasons by one or the other partner. I think very few people (including me) can say that we do not have problems with sexual sin. Does that mean God condemns us? I think not, but he calls us to continually strive to become more ordered to his will. He loves us even though we are sinners and, just like with a partner, we can show love by attempting to increase our understanding of what he desires. I know this is a bit more of an answer than what you asked for in your question, but I'm hoping it might help each of us to understand that we are created the way we are for a purpose, and that we should try to find that purpose.

    Regarding global warming, it is abundantly clear that "everything affects everything" in this world and while such a model is impossible for us to fully understand, it is very reasonable to conclude based on evidence that man has contributed substantially (if not fully) to global warming.

    Peace in your journey on this Earth!
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  3. #103  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    To me, it is also despicable to bring a child into this world if you are not ready emotionally and monetarily to provide for and raise it. Your rose colored glasses view of adoption is sadly not always the case. Many kids just get passed around from foster home to foster home. Unfortunately, not all kids get adopted. Are you a foster parent? Are you willing and able to adopt these kids?
    Kenanator,

    You might do well to study the process of adoption and foster care a bit more. Newborn babies are easily adoptable and there is always unmet demand. The sad part of life is what you describe when a child is mistreated, becomes a ward of the state, has many parents and transitions through their early life feeling unloved. The type of person or couple who is capable of bringing such a child back into a trust relationship is very rare. In the case of an unexpected pregnancy, if these children can be brought to term and placed with parents wanting the child, that is clearly preferable to killing the child simply to avoid the remainder of the pregnancy. The downside is the mother has to carry the child and then give it up. This really is less of a downside than it seems, as mothers of aborted babies often have psychological scarring later in life as well as being subjected to a substantially increased risk of breast cancer. While society may think we are doing the right thing by aborting babies, a little investigation into this matter reveals we really need to be re-educated.
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  4. #104  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Yeah... best to kill em so they don't suffer, right? It's humane. I mean, some of them might get passed around.
    You took those words right out of my mouth.

    Except; I was going to add that I'm really concerned that my son is going to get into hard drugs and be emotionally scarred as a result.
    Last edited by berdinkerdickle; 01/22/2010 at 12:07 PM. Reason: spelling
  5. #105  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Yeah... best to kill em so they don't suffer, right? It's humane. I mean, some of them might get passed around.
    No, it is best to just keep reproducing, no mater what the consequences...
    "Brace yourself, you beautiful *****. I am about to **** you up with some truth!" - Kenny Powers

    "I don't mind paying taxes. With taxes, I purchase civilization."
    - H.L. Mencken
  6. #106  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    No, it is best to just keep reproducing, no mater what the consequences...
    Yes, don't bother teaching children to be responsible.
    Don't bother teaching them how to use birth control.
    Why? because they can just get an abortion - simple as that. No worries.
    Just call me Berd.
  7. Micael's Avatar
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    #107  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    No, it is best to just keep reproducing, no mater what the consequences...
    That's an interesting solution. I'd probably suggest abstinance or contraception, instead. But that's just me.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  8. #108  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    No, it is best to just keep reproducing, no mater what the consequences...
    And those consequences are what again?
    Just call me Berd.
  9. #109  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    No, it is best to just keep reproducing, no mater what the consequences...
    Wow, you're really argumentative (today?)! If people/society can change their viewpoint about sex from a recreational activity to one designed to create children, perhaps we'd have a little less accidental and unintended reproduction occurring.

    I suggested earlier in this thread something often near and dear to the liberals: taxation. While the idea of creating a tax on abortions seems preposterous, it might get the message across more effectively than the methods we are currently using. Sometimes us guys can be really thick headed, but when we are hit in the pocketbook, we often learn to change our behavior. Just a thought!
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  10. #110  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    That's an interesting solution. I'd probably suggest abstinance or contraception, instead. But that's just me.
    An ounce of Prevention is worth more than a pound of 'cure'.
    Just call me Berd.
  11. #111  
    Quote Originally Posted by sudoer View Post
    I suggested earlier in this thread something often near and dear to the liberals: taxation. While the idea of creating a tax on abortions seems preposterous, it might get the message across more effectively than the methods we are currently using. Sometimes us guys can be really thick headed, but when we are hit in the pocketbook, we often learn to change our behavior. Just a thought!
    My only concern with that;
    it seems to send a message that it's no worse than smoking.
    If you can afford it, why not.

    No, taxing abortion doesn't remove the demoralizing that ones have for life.
    Just call me Berd.
  12. Micael's Avatar
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    #112  
    Quote Originally Posted by berdinkerdickle View Post
    And those consequences are what again?
    Lots of midnight runs to the grocery to get her some more peanut butter and sweet pickles?
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  13. #113  
    Hey Baby....

    Slow down. Don't we need to be careful?

    Nah, I have insurance.
    Just call me Berd.
  14. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #114  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    No, it is best to just keep reproducing, no mater what the consequences...
    Can you point out who said this?
    Who said "It is better to just keep reproducing no matter the consequences?"
    Who here made that claim that you are arguing against?

    KAM
  15. #115  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    That's an interesting solution. I'd probably suggest abstinance or contraception, instead. But that's just me.
    What about those who do not want that taught in schools? Do we rely and hope that the parents are able to get this point across? (See Bristol Palin)
    "Brace yourself, you beautiful *****. I am about to **** you up with some truth!" - Kenny Powers

    "I don't mind paying taxes. With taxes, I purchase civilization."
    - H.L. Mencken
  16. #116  
    Quote Originally Posted by berdinkerdickle View Post
    Yes, don't bother teaching children to be responsible.
    Don't bother teaching them how to use birth control.
    Why? because they can just get an abortion - simple as that. No worries.
    Last I checked, schools do that now, yet kids still get pregnant...

    Lets not forget all of the conservative church groups trying to ban this info from being taught in schools...
    "Brace yourself, you beautiful *****. I am about to **** you up with some truth!" - Kenny Powers

    "I don't mind paying taxes. With taxes, I purchase civilization."
    - H.L. Mencken
  17. Micael's Avatar
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    #117  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    What about those who do not want that taught in schools? Do we rely and hope that the parents are able to get this point across? (See Bristol Palin)
    Why do you feel you must tie the two debates together? But ok. I believe it's the parents "responsibility" to discuss safe sex practices and abstinance with their children, and not the states. That said, I personally have no problem with schools teaching the science and facts about reproduction and how it's avoided.

    Tell me though, who didn't want abstinance being taught in school?
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  18. #118  
    Quote Originally Posted by berdinkerdickle View Post
    Hey Baby....

    Slow down. Don't we need to be careful?

    Nah, I have insurance.
    "Hey I have no insurance and a part time job! Let the taxpayers pay for my prenatal care!"
    "Brace yourself, you beautiful *****. I am about to **** you up with some truth!" - Kenny Powers

    "I don't mind paying taxes. With taxes, I purchase civilization."
    - H.L. Mencken
  19. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #119  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    What about those who do not want that taught in schools? Do we rely and hope that the parents are able to get this point across? (See Bristol Palin)
    What makes you think that this wasn't taught in Bristol Palin's school or that she was otherwise unaware of this issues?

    Again--this seems like a very empty argument, assuming that kids are incredibly naive about contraception. They aren't ignorant of the issues they are simply reckless.

    I'd be interested in seeing a poll of how many girls who had abortions were ignorant of how babies are made AND contraception. I'm betting that number would be fairly low.

    Perhaps what we should concentrate teaching our kids is personal responsibility, and holding them accountable for their actions. I suggest that has much wider ranging benefits than preventing them from making babies when they aren't prepared to deal with it.

    KAM
  20. Micael's Avatar
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    #120  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    Last I checked, schools do that now, yet kids still get pregnant...

    Lets not forget all of the conservative church groups trying to ban this info from being taught in schools...
    My mother in law as a devout catholic and held that view... and she was about as liberal as you can get. Always voted democratic. I don't think you can paint them all as conservatives.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
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