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  1. Micael's Avatar
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    #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    I am not the one pounding my chest for the rights of fetuses, you are. I merely asked a question. As for my beliefs, I think the woman has the right to choose whether or not she can provide for a child in its best interest.
    Please explain how abortion is in a child's best interest?
    I am very consistent in my beliefs this issue, just as I am for my support of the death penalty. To me, believing in one and not the other is a little hypocritical on both sides.
    And how many unborn children murder and rape others for which they deserve the death penalty? Believing in one, and not the other, is entirely logical.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  2. #62  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    I am not the one pounding my chest for the rights of fetuses, you are. I merely asked a question. As for my beliefs, I think the woman has the right to choose whether or not she can provide for a child in its best interest. I am very consistent in my beliefs this issue, just as I am for my support of the death penalty. To me, believing in one and not the other is a little hypocritical on both sides.
    I'm not sure you totally thought this through. I have a few more questions for you:

    Given your logic, wouldn't the father also have the same right to choose? What happens when the mother and father disagree on the choice? Who's rights trump the other and why? If the child is killed against one parent right to choose, what are the legal remedies to the other parent? If the child is allowed to live against the rights of one parent, should the other be allowed to get out of child support? How would that be fair?
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  3. #63  
    Didn't we already have a thread where we were discussing this matter of abortion?

    I thought we already understood that the healthcare bill made provisions for abortion - only for Rape and/or the life of the mother was a factor.

    What are legitimate reasons for aborting a child other than the above?
    Just call me Berd.
  4. Micael's Avatar
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    #64  
    I found this very telling. So where do Americans go for fair and balanced coverage?

    As posted on Drudge:

    CABLE NEWS RACE
    TUES. JAN. 19, 2010
    ELECTION NIGHT

    FOXNEWS HANNITY 6,809,000
    FOXNEWS GRETA 6,399,000
    FOXNEWS O'REILLY 5,228,000
    FOXNEWS BECK 3,446,000
    FOXNEWS BAIER 3,338,000
    FOXNEWS SHEP 3,241,000
    CNN KING 1,681,000
    CNN COOPER 1,508,000
    CNN BROWN 1,308,000
    MSNBC OLBERMANN 1,274,000
    MSNBC MADDOW 1,236,000
    CNN BLITZER 1,135,000
    CNNHN BEHAR 845,000
    MSNBC HARDBALL 798,000
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  5. #65  
    Quote Originally Posted by berdinkerdickle View Post
    What are legitimate reasons for aborting a child other than the above?
    Reducing America's carbon footprint.
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  6. Micael's Avatar
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    #66  
    Quote Originally Posted by sudoer View Post
    Reducing America's carbon footprint.
    I agree that population growth is an issue. Perhaps there are other options? Abstinance? Contraception?
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  7. #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    I agree that population growth is an issue. Perhaps there are other options? Abstinence? Contraception?
    Most people would consider those the "responsible" options. What do we do in cases of irresponsibility? Perhaps we could have an "abortion tax" to fund healthcare!
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  8. #68  
    I do wish that were true. However, not. Do a bit of reading - woman's reproductive rights...

    Quote Originally Posted by berdinkerdickle View Post
    Didn't we already have a thread where we were discussing this matter of abortion?

    I thought we already understood that the healthcare bill made provisions for abortion - only for Rape and/or the life of the mother was a factor.

    What are legitimate reasons for aborting a child other than the above?
  9. Micael's Avatar
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    #69  
    Quote Originally Posted by sudoer View Post
    What do we do in cases of irresponsibility?
    Just a thought, but maybe we can assist them in making the best choice for the baby, that does not include abortion? Adoption is a much better option. Having been through an orphanage, I can tell you that I'm happy that this was the choice my parents made.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  10. #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Just a thought, but maybe we can assist them in making the best choice for the baby, that does not include abortion? Adoption is a much better option. Having been through an orphanage, I can tell you that I'm happy that this was the choice my parents made.
    Thanks for your testimonial. First hand stories like yours really drives the point home. I wonder how many PreCentral users that we don't have because of other "choices"?
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  11. #71  
    Whether you're pro-choice or not, once you actually have to make the decision it is extremely difficult...Just out of curiosity, those on this thread who are pro-choice, do you have, or have you had, any children of your own?
  12. #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Please explain how abortion is in a child's best interest?
    How is it the child's best interest being brought up by a single mother without the means to support herself, let alone those of a child?
    "Brace yourself, you beautiful *****. I am about to **** you up with some truth!" - Kenny Powers

    "I don't mind paying taxes. With taxes, I purchase civilization."
    - H.L. Mencken
  13. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    How is it the child's best interest being brought up by a single mother without the means to support herself, let alone those of a child?
    That of course is a false argument, because the choice isn't between death and being brought up by a single mother without means of support.

    At a minimum there is the option to give the child up for adoption.

    KAM
  14. #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    How is it the child's best interest being brought up by a single mother without the means to support herself, let alone those of a child?
    Why make this determination before birth? Why not let the child be born, and once you find out that their life sucks, just put them out of their misery when you "know" for sure?
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  15. #75  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    Actually, Sudoer brought up Abortion, and talked about it much more extensively than me so you're wrong, and that you've focused on me would be flattering, if it wasn't so creepy.
    You have such alluring eyes...

    Really? Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't you in favor of government taking care of the people? Why should a poor woman in this predicament have to make a choice because she can't care for a child? Why wouldn't the government (in your way of thinking) step in to provide for them (which they do by the way).
    Taking care of us as far as health care, yes. Everything else you are just assuming. I am not a fan of the current welfare system we have now or the fact that you can get more out of it just by having more kids. I believe that if you can flip a burger, you can provide for yourself.

    If it is just a matter of providing care, then that's easily solved--adoption. A woman can walk away from that child and have no further responsibility to care for him or her.
    Another way would be to teach kids about contraception/birth control in schools but conservatives frown on that as well...

    You mentioned "in its best interest." Let's be clear here--one part of this equation of "best interest" is that this unborn child would be killed. Is it in the best interest of a child to be prevented from being born in your view?

    If that is your view, then on what basis does anyone make that determination for another? Do you think that one person has the right to end an innocent life?

    KAM
    If a fetus cannot live and breath on its own, is it a life?
    "Brace yourself, you beautiful *****. I am about to **** you up with some truth!" - Kenny Powers

    "I don't mind paying taxes. With taxes, I purchase civilization."
    - H.L. Mencken
  16. #76  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    If a fetus cannot live and breath on its own, is it a life?
    If an expectant mother is assaulted and the child is lost, does the mother have recourse for just herself or herself and the child?
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  17. #77  
    Quote Originally Posted by sudoer View Post
    Why make this determination before birth? Why not let the child be born, and once you find out that their life sucks, just put them out of their misery when you "know" for sure?
    Good idea! They aren't really "people until they are 18 anyway....
    "Brace yourself, you beautiful *****. I am about to **** you up with some truth!" - Kenny Powers

    "I don't mind paying taxes. With taxes, I purchase civilization."
    - H.L. Mencken
  18. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #78  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    You have such alluring eyes...


    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    Taking care of us as far as health care, yes. Everything else you are just assuming. I am not a fan of the current welfare system we have now or the fact that you can get more out of it just by having more kids. I believe that if you can flip a burger, you can provide for yourself.
    Fair enough--thanks for the clarification.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    Another way would be to teach kids about contraception/birth control in schools but conservatives frown on that as well...
    I think there is a fallacy at work here--that there is some lack of knowledge about contraception. Do you really think that a 15 or 16 year old is unaware of this?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    If a fetus cannot live and breath on its own, is it a life?
    I stated the scientific fact that it is alive. I didn't attempt to forward my views on what a "life" is (at least I don't think I did). There is a subtle difference there. What I said was if left unmolested (and no natural miscarriage), it would undoubtedly end up as a living human being. These are facts.

    KAM
  19. #79  
    Quote Originally Posted by sudoer View Post
    If an expectant mother is assaulted and the child is lost, does the mother have recourse for just herself or herself and the child?
    "Assault" is a little different from "abortion" now isn't it? If a women chose to have the child yet was assaulted, then yes, she can take recourse for the lost child...
    "Brace yourself, you beautiful *****. I am about to **** you up with some truth!" - Kenny Powers

    "I don't mind paying taxes. With taxes, I purchase civilization."
    - H.L. Mencken
  20. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #80  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    "Assault" is a little different from "abortion" now isn't it? If a women chose to have the child yet was assaulted, then yes, she can take recourse for the lost child...
    Actually as far as the child is concerned--the only difference is who initiates the assault.

    KAM
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