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  1. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #101  
    Quote Originally Posted by theog View Post
    Here you go: Google
    I asked what you were specifically referring to. If you don't want to answer, then just say so. Google won't help me read your mind as to what you mean.

    You make some nebulous claim, and I ask for clarification, and instead I get this churlish response? Great.

    KAM
  2. #102  
    Quote Originally Posted by theog View Post
    Dems have already explored the "nuke" option or rushing it through... so no matter if they win in MA or not, Health Care will pass.
    I'm pretty sure your right about this strategy.

    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    Hello Everyone,
    This is a good of place as any to talk about this.
    Thanks. (I thought so too, but I felt a little like I was hijacking your thread by bringing this up)

    Quote Originally Posted by theog View Post
    Would anyone like to make their predictions about Tomorrow's Mass. Senate Seat Election.
    I really think it is too close to call.

    I guess there are a few factors that might be "predictors":
    • How people view Vicky Kennedy's endorsement/support
    • Unease at where the deficit is going
    • A referendum on Obama
    • Some agree that a "do over" of ObamaCare is needed
    • Others might feel Massachusetts does not need ObamaCare


    Personally, I think the dems are painting this as a "referendum on Obama" which (at least for me) it is not. I actually want to see Obama succeed but I would have liked him to attract at least one or two republicans to support congress' healthcare reform bills. I think it's that Obama promised bipartisanship during his election campaign but hasn't shown much effort or leadership towards asking congress to achieve this. Consequently, my opinion is (so far) the outcome of our vote will be more of a "referendum on the democratic congress" than on Obama. I'd say that most of our unenrolled voters are closer to my view than being certified "Obama haters".

    I've always had a high degree of respect for Senator Kennedy and his accomplishments. (I voted for him repeatedly in spite of his divergence on right to life issues. I didn't always vote for Senator Kerry.) I believe the Kennedys are responsible for the democratic party landing on what we would eventually call the "pro-choice" side. This position has caused what people call "the religious right" migrating to another party (where they otherwise would not really fit in very well). If the dems ever swiched their position here, they would have a huge influx of republicans and independents - likely far more than they would loose. I guess I got off on a tangent here. I think Vicky's initial endorsement which sounded to me like: "OK, we Kennedy's bless Martha as our chosen follower" is at least 30% responsible for Scott Brown's recent resurgence in the polls. (This was around the time that the polls shifted.)

    Regarding ObamaCare, I think most Massachusetts residents want to do what is best for the country. We'd like to see a universal healthcare bill passed. We just don't like this particular bill as it has too many of the wrong concessions. I feel like it's a double tax on our state for a program that won't be sustainable in the long run and will fail after about 10 years. I don't see this as really being "deficit neutral", just deficit neutral during Obama's possible tenure and anothr "entitlement spending" problem after that.

    Quote Originally Posted by theog View Post
    ...I imagine, that there will be a recount, and accusations of "voter intimidation" as well, should Brown somehow win. Then there will be a legal waiting period to certify, and then I expect that every possible effort will be made by Reid to NOT seat Brown.
    I'm worried about ugliness here too. I've read that our voting machines can be hacked simply by inserting replacing an (SD?) memory card with another user. Luckily, our paper ballots are very clear (filled in circles with a black marker) so an accurate count is achievable if a recount is deemed necessary.

    If the dems try to implement their "plan B", this will surely have an effect on how the country votes in the upcoming congressional elections. I would hope that instead they find ways of getting a few republicans to support a revised bill.
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  3. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #103  
    Quote Originally Posted by sudoer View Post
    Thanks. (I thought so too, but I felt a little like I was hijacking your thread by bringing this up)
    Just as a point of clarification--this isn't my thread. The OP of this thread was some attempt to use gossip to spit in someone's eye. Any actual relevant discussion is welcome in my view.

    I appreciate your posting your views on the Mass Senate Election.

    In regards to the political maneuvering with Healthcare and otherwise. I find it disturbing--no matter who plays the games. As citizens, I think we should recognize these attempts to win by political trickery as red flags--no matter if you agree or disagree with the issue at hand.

    If these politicians cannot pass their bills above board, they degrade the system that we all place our faith in. It becomes a system not of laws, but of arbitrary ability to "get away" with something or another. That's not good government. The system must be respected, or we do not have a system--merely a facade of a system.

    KAM
  4. #104  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    thread. The OP of this thread was some attempt to use gossip to spit in someone's eye. Any actual relevant discussion is welcome in my view.
    Yep, my mistake, I thought I was in the other thread (where I did mention what was happening in the election). I felt I was changing the subject a bit but that you'd welcome related discussion (which you always seem to be open to). Thanks for the clarification. I'm surprised how little people are actually discussing this! I think the result may have a big effect on all Americans.


    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    In regards to the political maneuvering with Healthcare and otherwise. I find it disturbing--no matter who plays the games. As citizens, I think we should recognize these attempts to win by political trickery as red flags--no matter if you agree or disagree with the issue at hand.
    Yes, and this is what's feeding both democrats, republicans, and independents in my state to like Scott Brown. It's probably more that he's an agent to fix things than where his political ideology lies. He's shown a good amount of tolerance and willingness to actually represent the people in his district. This is what has been setting him apart.

    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    If these politicians cannot pass their bills above board, they degrade the system that we all place our faith in. It becomes a system not of laws, but of arbitrary ability to "get away" with something or another. That's not good government. The system must be respected, or we do not have a system--merely a facade of a system.
    Yes! I view my vote as a way of hopefully guiding congress towards reaching a more effective and fair plan that all Americans will be proud of.

    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    I appreciate your posting your views on the Mass Senate Election.
    I'm posting simply because it's otherwise hard to understand why people of a given state make their political decisions. Massachusetts is not "going republican". Most of us are just sending the democrats a signal to "play fair" and represent the people. I'm pretty sure Senator John Kerry will retain his seat when his time comes. Also Scott Brown is not a done deal, Martha Coakley can still easily win the election. It will most likely be decided by who shows up at the polls tomorrow.
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  5. #105  
    Quote Originally Posted by sudoer View Post
    It will most likely be decided by who shows up at the polls tomorrow.
    Let me just add that Scott Brown's strategy is interesting. He's not relying only on "broadcast"ing his message via TV ads. He's using robocalls that specifically state the name of the intended recipient (in my case, either me or my wife) and he's focusing his calls on voters who actually show up at the polls. My wife gets more calls because she voted in the democratic primary. I got one robo-call, one robo-survey, and one personal call from a person. We've had at least one daily call from Brown supporters but only one from the Coakley side. She hasn't been as agile as Brown has in fine tuning her message.
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  6. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #106  
    Quote Originally Posted by sudoer View Post
    Yep, my mistake, I thought I was in the other thread (where I did mention what was happening in the election). I felt I was changing the subject a bit but that you'd welcome related discussion (which you always seem to be open to). Thanks for the clarification. I'm surprised how little people are actually discussing this! I think the result may have a big effect on all Americans.
    I agree--this election can have major consequences, AND perhaps be another data point indicating how the 2010 elections might be shaping up.

    Quote Originally Posted by sudoer View Post
    Yes, and this is what's feeding both democrats, republicans, and independents in my state to like Scott Brown. It's probably more that he's an agent to fix things than where his political ideology lies. He's shown a good amount of tolerance and willingness to actually represent the people in his district. This is what has been setting him apart.
    I think that the American people are generally a bit uncomfortable with one party rule, and after a few months of actually experiencing it...they like it even less. That benefits Brown in this election. We have a system that has many intentional checks and balances--currently, those really are not in play. Also--I think it can be argued that split party rule in the Clinton Administration (1995-2001) had pretty good results. We got balanced budgets out of the deal, welfare reform, etc. Of course we ended with a bit of a Bubble pop and a small Recession, but that's part of the natural economic cycle.

    Quote Originally Posted by sudoer View Post
    Yes! I view my vote as a way of hopefully guiding congress towards reaching a more effective and fair plan that all Americans will be proud of.
    Well, I think that has long been tossed in the ditch with this particular effort. I'd prefer taking these 3 years before any of this is even set to start (other than the taxes perhaps) and come up with a real reform plan that the American people want. My first suggestion--keep it simple, instead of turning it into a huge boondoggle. Deal with each issue cleanly and clearly, and go for the common ground first, insuring we get the bulk of the actual reforms in place, before squabbling about the differences. Who knows--some actual bipartisan action might foster more cooperation.

    Quote Originally Posted by sudoer View Post
    I'm posting simply because it's otherwise hard to understand why people of a given state make their political decisions. Massachusetts is not "going republican". Most of us are just sending the democrats a signal to "play fair" and represent the people. I'm pretty sure Senator John Kerry will retain his seat when his time comes. Also Scott Brown is not a done deal, Martha Coakley can still easily win the election. It will most likely be decided by who shows up at the polls tomorrow.
    I agree.

    KAM
  7. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #107  
    Quote Originally Posted by sudoer View Post
    Let me just add that Scott Brown's strategy is interesting. He's not relying only on "broadcast"ing his message via TV ads. He's using robocalls that specifically state the name of the intended recipient (in my case, either me or my wife) and he's focusing his calls on voters who actually show up at the polls. My wife gets more calls because she voted in the democratic primary. I got one robo-call, one robo-survey, and one personal call from a person. We've had at least one daily call from Brown supporters but only one from the Coakley side. She hasn't been as agile as Brown has in fine tuning her message.
    That's interesting. That's the sort of thing that I think can make a difference in elections. For example--I think Obama had much more of an edge than McCain on this sort of thing--and it paid off.

    KAM
  8. Micael's Avatar
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    #108  
    Anyone want to guestimate when the vote recounts and hanging chad debates will end? July? August?

    I guaranty the Dems are already lawyered up with their laptops on overdrive.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  9. #109  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Anyone want to guestimate when the vote recounts and hanging chad debates will end? July? August?

    I guaranty the Dems are already lawyered up with their laptops on overdrive.
    There won't be any hanging chad issues here. All of our machines are now optical scanners. Provided the ballots are kept secure, they should be able to be re-scanned by a team auditing the process at each point of rescan (to make sure noone has hacked into the machines through the "back door" account during scanning). That could be accomplished by having all the machines with their ballots in a warehouse with an established process to protect against hacking the machines. That might take a few days to secure the machines, but then the recounting could be pretty fast (like an hour or less per machine).
    Last edited by sudoer; 01/18/2010 at 05:06 PM.
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  10. #110  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    That's interesting. That's the sort of thing that I think can make a difference in elections. For example--I think Obama had much more of an edge than McCain on this sort of thing--and it paid off.

    KAM
    If I get no Scott Brown robo-calls tomorrow, then I will be totally impressed (as that means they noted that we are going to vote and that we have decided on how to vote).
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  11. #111  
    hey are you people stupid! This is a forum for the palm / pre, pixi not anything else. So keep this crap on fox !!!!
  12. #112  
    Quote Originally Posted by RBorden629 View Post
    hey are you people stupid!
    Perhaps you might care to elaborate on what makes us so stupid. (Perhaps we can be salvaged or assimilated into your way of thinking.)
    Quote Originally Posted by RBorden629 View Post
    This is a forum for the palm / pre, pixi not anything else. So keep this crap on fox !!!!
    I don't mean to be disrespectful, but please consider the following question:
    If I mentioned to you that this is the "Off Topic" area (where this sort of discussion is allowed) would that make you feel more, or less stupid than you felt before realizing this?
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  13. #113  
    Quote Originally Posted by RBorden629 View Post
    hey are you people stupid! This is a forum for the palm / pre, pixi not anything else. So keep this crap on fox !!!!
    Pot, meet kettle.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  14. #114  
    Quote Originally Posted by RBorden629 View Post
    hey are you people stupid! This is a forum for the palm / pre, pixi not anything else. So keep this crap on fox !!!!
    Hey!
    I come here to OT for crap, thank you very much.
    We promise to keep it out of the Pre Forums though.
    Just call me Berd.
  15. groovy's Avatar
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    #115  
    Looks like Wall Street expects the future of the Republican party to be a little bit brighter today.
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