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  1. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by zelgo View Post
    Sure, he calls its like he sees it, but he's "seeing" it only through rather conservative eyes.

    Thus, he remains a hypocrite for only seeing the left doing wrong but, of course, claiming that he hates all bad behavior...
    What makes it impossible for you to make accurate statements? I don't see only the left doing wrong. Have you missed the variety of times I've said that President Bush screwed up on this TARP business for example. Have you missed where I've said that Republicans got reckless with spending?

    Stop pretending that we have the same sorts of mindset. We do not. Just because you suffer from Bush Hatred, doesn't mean that others suffer from Obama hatred.

    As far as "seeing" things through conservative eyes. No--again, that's where we differ. I "SEE" it just fine. I DECIDE on things, and that would be fair to say that I have conservative stances on many issues.

    More than anything...I believe things for reasons, not merely that I WANT something.

    KAM
  2. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #62  
    Quote Originally Posted by zelgo View Post
    Why is it hypocrisy if Obama learned from the Iraq surge and decided to use the strategy in Afganistan?

    Oh, maybe you thinks it's hypocrisy because it's Obama who made the decision...
    I think he is hypocritical, because he wouldn't admit that his opposition was wrong. He didn't deny the obvious, by saying that it failed, but instead he tried to reference other "underlying problems." In other words, he wouldn't admit he was wrong.

    I have no problem with using the Strategy--why not try something that's worked.

    Quote Originally Posted by zelgo View Post
    methinks you're the hypocrite here.
    Methinks that you would say that no matter what. Methinks you also really don't understand how to apply this word properly.

    Quote Originally Posted by zelgo View Post
    PS. what do you think of those death panels, unplugging Grandma, "healthcare reform won't work"...? Hate that behavior too?
    I dislike propaganda words like "death panels."
    Saying that Healthcare reform won't work. No--I don't hate that at all. I think that is very true--especially with the knowledge that they've cut all sorts of sweet heart deals, selling out the public to buy votes. It is literally bribery.

    KAM
  3. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by zelgo View Post
    So you "actually" think the leftists "were willing to harm the country, our soldiers in the field and the economy..."
    Yes, I don't think this. High profile Democrats DID THIS. Do you have selective memory? HArry Reid said, "This was is lost."


    Nancy Pelosi Said: "we have war without end--a total failure."

    Now, how do you think our enemies take this? We've got the people who control funding for the military declaring to the public and the world that we've lost. Does that encourage our enemy or discourage them? That provides a morale boost to our enemies.

    Quote Originally Posted by zelgo View Post
    ...and you "see most progressive ideas for the incredible unamerican frauds that they are."

    So, if the leftists say it, it's harming the country with their unamerican ideas...?

    Please stop pretending you have ANY objectivity here as you spread the same vitriol you accuse of disdaining.

    Thus, you are a hypocrite.

    Which rightist ideas do you feel are unAmerican?
    My holding an opinion about progressive policies is the same as the Leaders of Congress declaring defeat of our military in the field, in the midst of operations is the same?

    You aren't even close to comparing things. Does this make sense to you, or does it even matter? Is just attacking all that's important. Your tactic is blatantly obvious. Attack me and ignore the point.

    But keep going with your little tactic. Call everything hypocrisy. Just keep repeating your same ignorant, misapplied little labels.

    KAM
  4. #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by hubz1124 View Post
    Republicans will be fine, Fox News just hired SARAH PALIN!
    I was impressed by Sara Palin's ideology but never by her finesse or character. At first I thought you were joking about her on the news, but now I'm thinking "oh no! (upon realizing it's a real story) I think both the democrats and the republicans "paint" her badly, so I can't ever imagine her surviving as a politician.
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  5. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #65  
    Quote Originally Posted by zelgo View Post
    No villany here--just hypocrisy.

    Our country was founded on many principles including both liberty and equality. It's that tug of war that keeps conservatives and liberals charged up.
    No--just more ignorant accusations from you.

    Equality? Really--please state to me where equality of outcome is stated as something the government is charged with? Anywhere?

    No, the government is there to insure equal RIGHTS. Only in the grossest perversion of the Constitution could someone justify Redistribution of wealth as allowable, let alone required.

    KAM
  6. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #66  
    Quote Originally Posted by zelgo View Post
    Name some things Obama has done right. What about the leftists?

    At least I'm not pretending to be objective.
    Well, as I stated--I think that he's on course with Afghanistan now, and he's not pandered to people like you and pulled out of Iraq. We seem to be pursuing military strikes on terrorists targets throughout the world. I'm not sure of the result yet, but we'll see.

    Leftists...too broad. Name something specific if you want my opinion.

    KAM
  7. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by zelgo View Post
    So, all you care about is his admitting he was wrong?? He has a country to run, for goodness sakes! He's not going to sit around and discuss his stance many years ago. Plus, we all know that the part of the "surge" that worked was the paying off of tribal leaders to turn against the insurgents.
    That's funny--I remember leftists demanding that President Bush declare he's wrong, and lambasting him for refusing to do so. I really don't care if he admits he's wrong or not--but he was asked about it directly and refused to acknowledge he was factually wrong--that speaks to his character I think.

    Quote Originally Posted by zelgo View Post
    So in a few years, when we see positive results from this healthcare reform, will you admit you're wrong?
    First--in a few years it won't even have started, although the taxes will. Second--I am not going to accept the Obama administrations declaration of their own success as a measure, Third--you are fantasizing, but sure--if it actually did what it promised--lowering costs, while increasing benefits to others, without doing things like creating waiting lists and such--I'd be happy to admit I was wrong. Of course, the odds of that are very low, given that the whole thing is living in massive denial of economic reality, but go ahead an dream.

    Quote Originally Posted by zelgo View Post
    As for "they've cut all sorts of sweet heart deals, selling out the public to buy votes. It is literally bribery."--welcome to politics. Your beloved conservatives did it with the Medicare Part D bill and the Patriot Act too...and lots of it. You make it seem like its some isolated circumstance.
    Oh no--this is the Change Candidate. This isn't politics as usual. This is the post Partisan President remember?

    I didn't make any reference to this being isolated now did I? Of course, it doesn't matter what I say--you just pretend I did anyway. Medicare Part D--yes, that's another screw up on the part of the Republicans (which I've talked about before, further proving your claim that I only criticize democrats is a lie). Patriot Act...yes, lots of problematic things in that. Interesting that the Democrats when they control things have pretty much embraced the whole thing.

    So, clearly--you are more than willing to support hypocrites.

    KAM
  8. #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    bin Laden didn't knock down the twin towers under Clinton. It was under Bush, remember?
    Well.....you are correct on that point.....it did happen under Bush, but, the planning for that event began under Prez Clinton. Which is odd because listening to the left wingers, you would think that the only reason we are targets these days is because of Bush. And yet for some reason, Clinton and his policies ticked these people off as well.

    The other amusing thing about our great Prez Obama, is how many who voted for him thought that by him kissing a*# out there (like on his apology tour?) he would suddenly put an end to all these crazy attacks. Well, we have certainly learned that Obama has not stopped these nuts from wanting to kill us. I believe attacks will increase because they are seeing that Obama will, at the most, do a slap on the wrist.....he simply does not put fear into these nut jobs.
    PalmPilot, PalmIIIc, Treo 650, Pre, Pre 3, Nokia 1020, Lumia 950

    "It's good to be the King" - Mel Brooks, History of the World, Part 1

    "I would rather have a German division in front of me than a French one behind me." General George S. Patton
  9. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #69  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    Well.....you are correct on that point.....it did happen under Bush, but, the planning for that event began under Prez Clinton. Which is odd because listening to the left wingers, you would think that the only reason we are targets these days is because of Bush. And yet for some reason, Clinton and his policies ticked these people off as well.

    The other amusing thing about our great Prez Obama, is how many who voted for him thought that by him kissing a*# out there (like on his apology tour?) he would suddenly put an end to all these crazy attacks. Well, we have certainly learned that Obama has not stopped these nuts from wanting to kill us. I believe attacks will increase because they are seeing that Obama will, at the most, do a slap on the wrist.....he simply does not put fear into these nut jobs.
    The thing I find disturbing is that the lines between propaganda attacks and reality have blurred. As you point out--they've forgotten that this "Blame Bush" propaganda is not reality. These terrorists have been at war with us, long before we finally acknowledged it. It seems they actually have convinced themselves that Terrorism is the fault of the Bush administration.

    That's idiocy at its finest, but the even more dangerous thing is that they've bought into the ridiculous notion that if we just talk nice to them, that it will stop. It all makes sense...if you believe the idiotic premise in the first place.

    They don't seem to realize that their pandering to their extremist kook fringe isn't reality. They apparently think that talk really matters to these terrorists. It's so bizarrely dangerous I can barely comprehend it.

    The same sort of flawed logic is being applied to Iran as well. And we see where that's getting us.

    KAM
  10. #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by zelgo View Post
    So, all you care about is his admitting he was wrong?? He has a country to run, for goodness sakes! He's not going to sit around and discuss his stance many years ago. ...
    Hey, it would be nice if he (EDIT: I mean Obama) showed the same sort of humbleness after the election that he showed before. As counter-intuitive as that sounds, such tactics would do more for his popularity and ability to do bi-partisan work than perhaps anything else.
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  11. #71  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclancy View Post
    Hey, it would be nice if he (EDIT: I mean Obama) showed the same sort of humbleness after the election that he showed before. As counter-intuitive as that sounds, such tactics would do more for his popularity and ability to do bi-partisan work than perhaps anything else.
    Hold on, everything he has done has been a huge attempt at bi-partisanship. The right as done nothing in the way of bi-partisanship, absolutelty nothing.

    As for the original question, I think most people fail to realize that the republican party is dead, gone already. They have been hijacked by this new conservative movement.

    And another thing, I find it very hard to accept and take serious, a party that clings to "christian values", but seem to think that their fellow man, (god's own children), should NOT have access to life saving insurance. I mean, wouldn't you think saving lives, would be one of the most christian things one could do? So do not argue with these people. They just spew limbaugh and hannity rhetoric. I mean if your bent out of shape because obama can't admit the surge worked, (which is highly debatable), then your grasping at straws.
  12. #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    The thing I find disturbing is that the lines between propaganda attacks and reality have blurred. As you point out--they've forgotten that this "Blame Bush" propaganda is not reality. These terrorists have been at war with us, long before we finally acknowledged it. It seems they actually have convinced themselves that Terrorism is the fault of the Bush administration.

    That's idiocy at its finest, but the even more dangerous thing is that they've bought into the ridiculous notion that if we just talk nice to them, that it will stop. It all makes sense...if you believe the idiotic premise in the first place.

    They don't seem to realize that their pandering to their extremist kook fringe isn't reality. They apparently think that talk really matters to these terrorists. It's so bizarrely dangerous I can barely comprehend it.

    The same sort of flawed logic is being applied to Iran as well. And we see where that's getting us.

    KAM
    Yes....just crazy that they think they can reason with terrorists. If it wasn't so scary that they think this, it would be amusing. Iran...oh geez..."it will be in your best interst to stop your nuclear endeavors....please". That nut case over there appears to really be shaking in his boots. Personally, I just wish Israel would take care of that, and quickly. I realize that will open up a can over there, but seems like the only other options are for Iran to get a nuclear weapon or for the US to once again do the dirty work (grrrrrrrrrrr).
    PalmPilot, PalmIIIc, Treo 650, Pre, Pre 3, Nokia 1020, Lumia 950

    "It's good to be the King" - Mel Brooks, History of the World, Part 1

    "I would rather have a German division in front of me than a French one behind me." General George S. Patton
  13. #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by redninja View Post
    Hold on, everything he has done has been a huge attempt at bi-partisanship. The right as done nothing in the way of bi-partisanship, absolutelty nothing.
    I don't follow these things very closely, but my impression on the health-care reform was totally a partisan thing. My view is they took a very risky and divisive approach on this. Call me naive, but he should have shown some leadership within congress to not let things happen this way.

    Quote Originally Posted by redninja View Post
    As for the original question, I think most people fail to realize that the republican party is dead, gone already. They have been hijacked by this new conservative movement.
    There is way too much that has to happen or fail between now and the next presidential election to make such predictions. I think it's pretty safe to say the republicans will make inroads in the next congressional election.

    Quote Originally Posted by redninja View Post
    And another thing, I find it very hard to accept and take serious, a party that clings to "christian values", but seem to think that their fellow man, (god's own children), should NOT have access to life saving insurance. I mean, wouldn't you think saving lives, would be one of the most christian things one could do? So do not argue with these people. They just spew limbaugh and hannity rhetoric. I mean if your bent out of shape because obama can't admit the surge worked, (which is highly debatable), then your grasping at straws.
    I've mentioned elsewhere that this is the fault of the Kennedy family in the mid/late 60's. Christians would fit much better in an "old-school" democratic party but they were shut out, and hence shoe-horned into (and taken advantage of by the) republican party. I suspect my view of Christians is much more favorable than yours might be - but I understand the "lack of fit" within the party that you see.
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  14. #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by redninja View Post
    Hold on, everything he has done has been a huge attempt at bi-partisanship. The right as done nothing in the way of bi-partisanship, absolutelty nothing.

    As for the original question, I think most people fail to realize that the republican party is dead, gone already. They have been hijacked by this new conservative movement.

    And another thing, I find it very hard to accept and take serious, a party that clings to "christian values", but seem to think that their fellow man, (god's own children), should NOT have access to life saving insurance. I mean, wouldn't you think saving lives, would be one of the most christian things one could do? So do not argue with these people. They just spew limbaugh and hannity rhetoric. I mean if your bent out of shape because obama can't admit the surge worked, (which is highly debatable), then your grasping at straws.
    Yes the closed door meetings with only Democrat to draft health care bills is absolutely bi-partisan.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  15. #75  
    I am making no predictions. I said the republican party is dead, and has been hijacked by the conservative movement. Which is exactly what happened. The modern republican party, is not. They are now conservatives.

    Understand, I am truly in the middle. I liked bush sr. and clinton. Absolutely hated the entire bush administration. I would of voted for ron paul, but ended up voting for obama. And I hate conservatives, but have nothing against old school republicans.

    I do think obama truly has fantastic ideals and plans for us as americans. Which was great in my opinion. But now you have 30 dems in senate that have chosen to support contributors, rather then americans, which now limits what he can do. I do think he seems to soft, but being the first black president, I think he's trying to be 100% politically correct about everything, which is fine, but not always, esp. when you're dealing with a party that does nothing politically correct (the right), And you have wolve's in sheep's clothes on the left.

    Also if diplomacy didnt work, clinton could not of flown into korea and rescued the 2 reporter girls. Something bush jr. never would of been able to do. Also, the berlin wall wouldn't of come down. War should always be the last resort, always.
    Now do I think that diplomacy with terrorists will work? I doubt it. But, you can't just knock their entire country off the face of the earth. As most of them aren't radical, just look at the people there standing up against the elections, it's awesome, it's more then we do here. I would also bet close to 100% of people in prison here, convicted of violent crimes, are christian. See how quick that can becomes gray.
  16. #76  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof View Post
    Yes the closed door meetings with only Democrat to draft health care bills is absolutely bi-partisan.
    Well that was real easy to see that you absolutley haven't a clue as to what really goes on.

    The fact of the matter is, the original bill was bi-partisan to begin with. He went for public option, rather then a single payer. which was very bi- partisan. They also bent over backwards trying to work with the conservative party.

    The right spent millions and created many lies and disenchantments about the public option. Also, made it very clear they would do anything to kill any healthcare reform. Very not Bi-partisan.

    I promise YOUR use of the word Bi-partisan was picked up from fox or rush. Your avatar is quite old and used also. Of course, most of the rights ideas are. Best of luck to you though.
  17. #77  
    Quote Originally Posted by redninja View Post
    Well that was real easy to see that you absolutley haven't a clue as to what really goes on.

    The fact of the matter is, the original bill was bi-partisan to begin with. He went for public option, rather then a single payer. which was very bi- partisan. They also bent over backwards trying to work with the conservative party.

    The right spent millions and created many lies and disenchantments about the public option. Also, made it very clear they would do anything to kill any healthcare reform. Very not Bi-partisan.

    Your avatar is quite old and used also. Of course, most of the rights ideas are. Best of luck to you though.
    Yawn. The typical liberal telling me what I think, know, feel etc.

    Spare me, you know nothing. As stated may times in these threads, ad nauseum even, the dems have the majority. they dont need the republicans to pass any of this and yet it hasn't passed.

    Best part of your post
    They also bent over backwards trying to work with the conservative party.
    OMG thats funny. And so typical. "we tried but the party of no just wont budge"
    I promise YOUR use of the word Bi-partisan was picked up from fox or rush.
    I promise your an . I dont watch fox or listen to rush. See thats the problem. You THINK you know so much when you really know nothing.
    Give me a break.

    And attack the avatar?? Is that the best you can do. When I change it your post will cease top be relevant. How smart are you now?
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  18. #78  
    All of that is the same ol rhetoric, spun over and over again. The typical liberal? LOL.

    And if you would've read my above posts, I clearly held 30 dems accountable. BTW, I dont think your the party of no, I think your the party of don't know.

    Also, your entire retort was nonsense, but I wouldn't expect any less. Again, good luck to you though.
  19. #79  
    Massachusetts senate race to replace the late Senator Kennedy has taken a turn where the republican candidate Scott Brown is now in the lead. Democratic candidate Martha Coakley (and most others) initially believed that Massachusetts voters would simply "elect another democrat". Massachusetts voters clearly aren't "religious right" or "conservative". Interesting development. The Coakley campaign has been airing negative (and clearly misleading) attack ads on TV. Usually such tactics work well but I'm not sure this is happening this time.

    EDIT: Rudy Giuliani is coming up to "help" Scott Brown. (That strategy is likely to help the democrats as few here "like" Giuliani.)
    Last edited by sudoer; 01/15/2010 at 05:51 AM.
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  20. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #80  
    Hello Everyone,

    Here's a Wall Street Journal Article talking about how the current administration or their various operatives work. In this case--in response to polls they don't like.

    The Opening Quote: Polling is both an art and a science, but recently it's also become a subject of political intimidation.

    Patrick Caddell and Douglas E. Schoen: Don't Shoot the Pollster - WSJ.com

    I mention this because someone parroting the talking points of their favored parties operatives mentioned this earlier.

    I don't care what side you fall on--this sort of behavior is dangerous to anyone who values a free society. It tells you a lot about the level of propaganda that must be maintained, and how anything that threatens that must be attacked. Now, one might say that is expected from political hacks. Perhaps. What is really disappointing is to see how readily supposedly intelligent people lap up this propaganda.

    It tells you a lot about the level of manipulation and intimidation that they are willing to engage in, to keep trying to force the public into effectively getting no alternative views. This effort to effectively silence dissent is exactly the sort of thing I thought that "open minded" people claim to support. I guess, that only applies selectively.

    KAM
    Last edited by KAM1138; 01/15/2010 at 02:31 PM.
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