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  1. rkguy's Avatar
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       #1  
    I am fairly excited to see some change coming out of senate.

    I understand that it is not the best solution but at least a change will actually swing the pendulum and cause us to move forward in the future. To make no change would be a failure
  2. jewel's Avatar
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    #2  
    Great! You're excited to see health insurance payments go up, government grows, abortion supported by tax payers, health cared rationed, death panels implemented and 18 million Americans still not covered. Good job!
  3. #3  
    http://townhall.com/columnists/TerryJeffrey/2009/12/23/obamacare_slaps_$15,000_annual_fee_on_middle_class_families?page=full&comments=true

    Maybe that will change your oppinion. Article also states i am below the poverty line.
  4. #4  
    From above article:
    Fact 3: Your employer will not be required to offer you coverage, and will face a maximum fine of $750 per worker per year if it does not.

    Page 7 of the CBO letter to Reid says: "In general, firms with more than 50 workers that did not offer coverage would have to pay a penalty of $750 for each full-time worker if any of their workers obtained subsidized coverage through the insurance exchanges; that dollar amount would be indexed."
    I just got the letter for cobra from my wife being laid off, says its over 1K per month. sounds like a steal for only 750 per person at a company.

    Fact 5: Your family insurance plan -- if your employer drops your coverage and you are forced to buy it on your own -- will cost about $15,000 per year when the legislation is in full force in 2016.
  5. rkguy's Avatar
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       #5  
    I did not and will not state that I am in favor or against any of the aforementioned. I will state that I am not in favor of sitting on our hands and waiting for a future opportunity for health care reform to appear. - Please note that the differences with the house bill will have to be reconciled.
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by scoobdude View Post
    $15,000_annual_fee_on_middle_class_families?page=full&comments=true

    Maybe that will change your oppinion. Article also states i am below the poverty line.
    We all know how unbiased Michelle Malkin is.
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    We all know how unbiased Michelle Malkin is.
    And here we go again. Please argue with facts about the article to debunk it instead of personnel character attacks. Just liek i told you in the global warming thread, don't point out my shoes and call me crazy. PROVE ME WRONG!!!!
  8. #8  
    Major elements of the current bill, form CNN - mostly sounds good to me:

    The House and Senate bills agree on a broad range of changes that could impact every American's coverage.

    Among other things, they have agreed to subsidize insurance for a family of four making up to roughly $88,000 annually, or 400 percent of the federal poverty level.

    They also have agreed to create health insurance exchanges designed to make it easier for small businesses, the self-employed and the unemployed to pool resources and purchase less-expensive coverage. Both the House plan and the Senate bill would eventually limit total out-of-pocket expenses and prevent insurance companies from denying coverage for pre-existing conditions.

    Insurers also would be barred from charging higher premiums based on a person's gender or medical history. However, both bills allow insurance companies to charge higher premiums for older customers.
    Medicaid would be significantly expanded under both proposals. The House bill would extend coverage to individuals earning up to 150 percent of the poverty line, or roughly $33,000 for a family of four; the Senate plan ensures coverage to those earning up to 133 percent of the poverty level, or just over $29,000 for a family of four.
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    Major elements of the current bill, form CNN - mostly sounds good to me:
    So higher premiums for elderly.... who are all on medicaid... so the poor an elderly will have to pay even more?

    That sounds awesome. Please show me reference to the actual pages and articles in teh bill so we can actaully go over them. The article I posted shows these. And they can be looked up. the information you posted just is another (un)biased review huh.

    Again, please point out the facts and most importantly where to find them. And please read what you post. As you apprently did not see the connection between the 2 points i just made.
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rkguy View Post
    I am fairly excited to see some change coming out of senate.

    I understand that it is not the best solution but at least a change will actually swing the pendulum and cause us to move forward in the future. To make no change would be a failure
    Just to be clear, this is Senate only passage. The two Houses versions still have to be reconciled.
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by scoobdude View Post
    So higher premiums for elderly.... who are all on medicaid... so the poor an elderly will have to pay even more?
    Ummm....they're referring to allowing premiums to be higher for the older folks GETTING PRIVATE INSURANCE than for the young. Nothing to do with those elderly in Medicare. You're welcome for clarifying your misunderstanding.

    You can jump up & down and misread individual snippets if you want, but it seems you're just looking for things to complain about, even if they're not based in fact. That just leads to high blood pressure....relax and enjoy the holiday spirit!
    Last edited by Bujin; 12/23/2009 at 05:45 PM.
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by jewel View Post
    Great! You're excited to see health insurance payments go up, government grows, abortion supported by tax payers, health cared rationed, death panels implemented and 18 million Americans still not covered. Good job!
    Of course, the death panel, abortion supported by tax dollars, and ration care arguments....the fact that those have been clearly shown to be untrue shouldn't stop a good ol' fashioned fear mongering. Facts be darned!
    Last edited by Bujin; 12/23/2009 at 05:51 PM.
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  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    Ummm....they're referring to allowing premiums to be higher for the older folks GETTING PRIVATE INSURANCE than for the young. Nothing to do with those elderly in Medicare. You're welcome for clarifying your misunderstanding.

    You can jump up & down and misread individual snippets if you want, but it seems you're just looking for things to complain about, even if they're not based in fact. That just leads to high blood pressure....relax and enjoy the holiday spirit!
    FAQ - Medicare Private Insurance Plans: Medicare Advantage

    You should brush up on your facts there. Again, these people are already poor and usually have conditions. So with what little savings if any they have they have try to pay for some sort of other coverage. So yes it does affect that group as well as teh people who can barely stay independant as it is.
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by scoobdude View Post
    FAQ - Medicare Private Insurance Plans: Medicare Advantage

    You should brush up on your facts there. Again, these people are already poor and usually have conditions. So with what little savings if any they have they have try to pay for some sort of other coverage. So yes it does affect that group as well as teh people who can barely stay independant as it is.
    You missed the point, of course. The Health Care bill in the Senate allows PRIVATE INSURANCE to charge higher premiums to older people than younger....they do that right now. So you can portray it as a bad thing, when it actually is nothing new. So your implication that it's a new tax or fee is simply incorrect.

    (I'm actually surprised that you're railing against this, given that most conservatives want no regulation of the insurance industry and you're calling for more. Maybe you're coming around to see that regulation of big biz can be a positive...congrats!)

    Continuing to allow insurance companies to charge older folks more was a compromise, as many Dems wanted insurance companies to be restricted from doing that, just as they'll be restricted from denying coverage for pre-existing conditions.

    And your original article snarkily talked about "slapping a $15,000 fee" to families to get insurance. That's not a fee, it's their insurance premium, and it's comparable to what a family's insurance premiums are currently.
    Last edited by Bujin; 12/23/2009 at 06:01 PM.
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  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    Of course, the death panel, abortion supported by tax dollars, and ration care arguments....the fact that those have been clearly shown to be untrue shouldn't stop a good ol' fashioned fear mongering. Facts be darned!
    links please. And while i agree its fear mongering, so is saying there is a health crisis. better food, more education about healthly living and mandatory gym memberships would do better than this healtcare bill si aiming to do. oh, and its cheaper

    oh yeah, and stop allowing patents on drugs, that will get the free market going and let vitamins come back after their recent attack in CAFTA
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    You missed the point, of course. The Health Care bill in the Senate allows PRIVATE INSURANCE to charge higher premiums to older people than younger....they do that right now. So you can portray it as a bad thing, when it actually is nothing new. So your implication that it's a new tax or fee is simply incorrect.

    That was a compromise, as many Dems wanted insurance companies to be restricted from doing that, just as they'll be restricted from denying coverage for pre-existing conditions.

    And your original article snarkily talked about "slapping a $15,000 fee" to families to get insurance. That's not a fee, it's their insurance premium, and it's comparable to what a family's insurance premiums are currently.

    Its a fee when you are required to pay it. As of now i have the choice, and lets not forget about the jail time if you refuse. fee + enforcement = not your decision

    Also with the no refusal policy, why do we need this bill?
  17. #17  
    Going off on a tangent, lets look at another insurance that was made mandatory. CAR INSURANCE.

    anyone unable to keep a secured 250,00 bucks has to pay for liability insurance to drive/own a car. So while the poor have to pay the rich get off scott free. I see this happening AGAIN.
  18. #18  
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  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by scoobdude View Post
    Its a fee when you are required to pay it.
    People refusing to get insurance already cost the taxpayer mucho bucks, when they then get injured and go to the emergency room.


    and lets not forget about the jail time if you refuse.
    The bill that the Senate is passing does not have any "jail time" provision.

    So while the poor have to pay the rich get off scott free. I see this happening AGAIN.
    You may see it happening, but that doesn't mean it will. Poor folks will have subsidies up to an income of four times the poverty level.



    To get back to the point of this thread: The final hurdle has been passed - the Senate invoked cloture, so no filibuster. The Senate bill can pass by a 51-vote majority, as it should be. (The filibuster is a terrible policy)

    A triumph of facts over fear!
    Last edited by Bujin; 12/23/2009 at 06:27 PM.
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  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    People refusing to get insurance already cost the taxpayer mucho bucks, when they then get injured and go to the emergency room.
    Assuming that the hospital doesn't collect funds from the individual in question.

    The problem with the ER is that by law, they can't turn anyone away, even if what the person shows up for would be better handled at a doctor's office or a minor medical clinic. That's one of my sister's pet peeves: people showing up at the ER who don't need to be there and wasting the time & resources of the staff at the hospital. When she was doing some of her medical training in Ireland, they would routinely turn people away from the ER and tell them to go see their doctor.
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