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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by hrminer92 View Post
    Assuming that the hospital doesn't collect funds from the individual in question.

    The problem with the ER is that by law, they can't turn anyone away, even if what the person shows up for would be better handled at a doctor's office or a minor medical clinic. That's one of my sister's pet peeves: people showing up at the ER who don't need to be there and wasting the time & resources of the staff at the hospital. When she was doing some of her medical training in Ireland, they would routinely turn people away from the ER and tell them to go see their doctor.
    There is also a percentage of said mentioned people that are not here legally.
  2. groovy's Avatar
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    #22  
    I really can't wait until 2011 when we have a little more balance. Unfortunately, it will be too late in a lot of ways.
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    I really can't wait until 2011 when we have a little more balance. Unfortunately, it will be too late in a lot of ways.
    Hmmm....did you vote to create more "balance" from 2000 to 2006, when the Republicans controlled everything, or were you okay with one party in control then? Is balance only required when it's not in your favor?
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by hrminer92 View Post
    Assuming that the hospital doesn't collect funds from the individual in question.

    The problem with the ER is that by law, they can't turn anyone away, even if what the person shows up for would be better handled at a doctor's office or a minor medical clinic. That's one of my sister's pet peeves: people showing up at the ER who don't need to be there and wasting the time & resources of the staff at the hospital. When she was doing some of her medical training in Ireland, they would routinely turn people away from the ER and tell them to go see their doctor.
    Yeah...must be nice to actually HAVE a doctor....since everyone in Ireland does. And guess what? They have health care too.

    Ask your sister how much hospitals collect from the indigent who use the ER for primary care.
    Last edited by davidra; 12/24/2009 at 06:59 AM.
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by scoobdude View Post
    So higher premiums for elderly.... who are all on medicaid... so the poor an elderly will have to pay even more?

    That sounds awesome. Please show me reference to the actual pages and articles in teh bill so we can actaully go over them. The article I posted shows these. And they can be looked up. the information you posted just is another (un)biased review huh.

    Again, please point out the facts and most importantly where to find them. And please read what you post. As you apprently did not see the connection between the 2 points i just made.
    Really. It's hard to know where to begin with all these uninformed people, who now have come out of the woodwork after months of discussion on this forum. If you want to generate a reasonable post, and not sound like a moron, first learn the difference between Medicaid and Medicare. That would help. Second, try reading the thousands of prior posts about these topics on this forum. It's really tiring restating the same repudiations of conservative fear-mongering and obstructionism. The closer the bill came to passing, the more the right wing resurrected fear tactics like death panels (Limbaugh and Palin in the past 24 hours). Just plain lies.
    Well, it is done now, and my hope is that after conference it will become even stronger. This will end up being a historic bill that will save lives and in the long run, money. And it just sticks in the craw of those who wanted Obama to fail at any cost. He hasn't, he won't, and he has already made major changes that will improve the country internationally, economically, and philosophically.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    I really can't wait until 2011 when we have a little more balance. Unfortunately, it will be too late in a lot of ways.
    Given the idealogical chasm, "balance=nothing of substance". The idea of giving one party the opportunity to lead is what's missing in our government right now. The republicans had plenty of chance to lead, having the same control of the White House and Congress and did nothing. We'll see how it turns out in 2010. Given most people are confident the economy will improve, don't be too sure.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    The idea of giving one party the opportunity to lead is what's missing in our government right now.
    That's where my issue with the filibuster comes in. The Dems are expected to govern, but the overuse of the filibuster, the majority can't be held accountable for governing because a majority can't get things done.

    I'm no happier about last-minute deals to Lieberman & Nelson than anyone - unfortunately, majority opinion in't enough to pass anything.
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    Really. It's hard to know where to begin with all these uninformed people, who now have come out of the woodwork after months of discussion on this forum. If you want to generate a reasonable post, and not sound like a moron, first learn the difference between Medicaid and Medicare. That would help. Second, try reading the thousands of prior posts about these topics on this forum. It's really tiring restating the same repudiations of conservative fear-mongering and obstructionism. The closer the bill came to passing, the more the right wing resurrected fear tactics like death panels (Limbaugh and Palin in the past 24 hours). Just plain lies.
    Well, it is done now, and my hope is that after conference it will become even stronger. This will end up being a historic bill that will save lives and in the long run, money. And it just sticks in the craw of those who wanted Obama to fail at any cost. He hasn't, he won't, and he has already made major changes that will improve the country internationally, economically, and philosophically.
    I don't want obama to fail. I would like everyone to be covered. I just don't believe large gov regulations is the answer. Especially when I did not vote for this. Now I lose my right to choose if I want healthcare and even have to pay for it if I don't get it.

    its very simple to understand. Big gov has not been able to cut spending, medicine is cheaper over both borders, and the deficit is already out of control. So we keep our troops overseas instead of bringing them home, whoch by the way would save more that this healthcare bill is supposed to, and we sit here and talk about only one article at a time. This is what does not make sense to me that people cannot see the big picture.

    but you go ahead with your life thinking its all about obama. Next time you talk to him tell him to bring our jobs back, stop bailing out corporations, and take the H1N1 vaccine like everyone else. Giving this gov track record things have not gotten better. This is what you are missing. NAFTA took jobs, CAFTA changed the way vitamins were held. Even stevia could only be considered a dietery supplement till it could be patented.

    its not about obama its about the big picture. Hopefully some day yiu will see.
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    That's where my issue with the filibuster comes in. The Dems are expected to govern, but the overuse of the filibuster, the majority can't be held accountable for governing because a majority can't get things done.

    I'm no happier about last-minute deals to Lieberman & Nelson than anyone - unfortunately, majority opinion in't enough to pass anything.
    Were you as upset about the filibusters around 2004 when the Democrats were using it and Frist was trying to get rid of it?

    GOP aims to bust up the filibuster rules - Politics- msnbc.com

    The minority then and now was using the means at their disposal to oppose something with which they disagreed. It's part of the process. I don't agree with 'either side' 100%, but I agree even less that a pure democracy is going to produce better results. The idea of a representative republic is to try and separate the decision-making process from the emotions of a direct vote.

    A Defense of the Filibuster - Newsweek.com
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    Were you as upset about the filibusters around 2004 when the Democrats were using it and Frist was trying to get rid of it?
    Yes, actually. I believe that if one party has the majority (either party), then their party represents the will of the majority and should be held accountable for results. That's not as possible if the minority can obstruct.

    The problem is that neither party really wants to get rid of it, because they know they'll want it when they're inevitably in the minority.
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    Yes, actually.
    Cool.
    I believe that if one party has the majority (either party), then their party represents the will of the majority and should be held accountable for results.
    But that's not how our system of government is designed. The will of the majority is supposed to be balanced with the rights of the minority.
    That's not as possible if the minority can obstruct.
    And it also makes it more important that what 'the majority' wants does not unduly harm 'the minority'.
    The problem is that neither party really wants to get rid of it, because they know they'll want it when they're inevitably in the minority.
    Surely.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  12. groovy's Avatar
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    #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    Given the idealogical chasm, "balance=nothing of substance". The idea of giving one party the opportunity to lead is what's missing in our government right now. The republicans had plenty of chance to lead, having the same control of the White House and Congress and did nothing. We'll see how it turns out in 2010. Given most people are confident the economy will improve, don't be too sure.
    Given than 2008 was a complete anomaly and Democrats can't expect a turnout like it again, I'm pretty sure 2010 will see substantial Republican gains.
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    Really. It's hard to know where to begin with all these uninformed people, who now have come out of the woodwork after months of discussion on this forum. If you want to generate a reasonable post, and not sound like a moron, first learn the difference between Medicaid and Medicare. That would help. Second, try reading the thousands of prior posts about these topics on this forum. It's really tiring restating the same repudiations of conservative fear-mongering and obstructionism. The closer the bill came to passing, the more the right wing resurrected fear tactics like death panels (Limbaugh and Palin in the past 24 hours). Just plain lies.
    Well, it is done now, and my hope is that after conference it will become even stronger. This will end up being a historic bill that will save lives and in the long run, money. And it just sticks in the craw of those who wanted Obama to fail at any cost. He hasn't, he won't, and he has already made major changes that will improve the country internationally, economically, and philosophically.
    Translation: You're stupid and have no business commenting on healthcare. I am a doctor and that makes me almost God so my opinion is the right one.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    Really. It's hard to know where to begin with all these uninformed people, who now have come out of the woodwork after months of discussion on this forum. If you want to generate a reasonable post, and not sound like a moron, first learn the difference between Medicaid and Medicare. That would help. Second, try reading the thousands of prior posts about these topics on this forum. It's really tiring restating the same repudiations of conservative fear-mongering and obstructionism. The closer the bill came to passing, the more the right wing resurrected fear tactics like death panels (Limbaugh and Palin in the past 24 hours). Just plain lies.
    Well, it is done now, and my hope is that after conference it will become even stronger. This will end up being a historic bill that will save lives and in the long run, money. And it just sticks in the craw of those who wanted Obama to fail at any cost. He hasn't, he won't, and he has already made major changes that will improve the country internationally, economically, and philosophically.
    The part of this post that bothers me the most is the blind idolatry that is directed at Obama. For a smart dr youre not very smart. He is just a guy and most of us who oppose his policies DO NOT have anything personal against him. We want his policies to fail because many of his policies go against what this country is all about. It's not supposed to be the nanny state you dream of.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  15. #35  
    TERM LIMITS.....WE NEED TERM LIMITS. We can't continue to have our representatives (the party affiliation does not matter) make careers of "serving the people". This totally gets away from true representation (in my opinion). SC had two of the longest serving Senators of all time in Thurmond and Hollings. It was embarrassing that Thurmond served the last 10 years as there is no way the guy knew what was going on. And Byrd of WV, give me a break. We need people more interested in serving the country than worried about staying in office to collect their incredible retirement benefits, health care benefits, and a pretty juicy income. TERM LIMITS!!!!! ARGGGHHHHHH.
    PalmPilot, PalmIIIc, Treo 650, Pre, Pre 3, Nokia 1020, Lumia 950

    "It's good to be the King" - Mel Brooks, History of the World, Part 1

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  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof View Post
    Translation: You're stupid and have no business commenting on healthcare. I am a doctor and that makes me almost God so my opinion is the right one.
    Oh oh.....don't bring up the God syndrome with Davidra, he's very sensitive to that (shhhhhhhh). He also suffers from being a Florida Gator and UNC Tar Heel. Those 3 things together (Dr, Gator, Tar Heel) give him an amazingly large head on his shoulders.

    Yo Doc.....hope you have a nice Christmas.
    PalmPilot, PalmIIIc, Treo 650, Pre, Pre 3, Nokia 1020, Lumia 950

    "It's good to be the King" - Mel Brooks, History of the World, Part 1

    "I would rather have a German division in front of me than a French one behind me." General George S. Patton
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    Oh oh.....don't bring up the God syndrome with Davidra, he's very sensitive to that (shhhhhhhh). He also suffers from being a Florida Gator and UNC Tar Heel. Those 3 things together (Dr, Gator, Tar Heel) give him an amazingly large head on his shoulders.

    Yo Doc.....hope you have a nice Christmas.
    Sorry Clem, I have a great BS detector.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof View Post
    He is just a guy and most of us who oppose his policies DO NOT have anything personal against him.
    Overt statements to the contrary ("I want Obama to fail", "if he fails with health care, it'll be his Waterloo"), the posters depicting him as ****** / communists and inferring violence is justified, as well as the incredible lies about the policies themselves would tend to indicate that, for many, it's less about policy than person.
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof View Post
    The part of this post that bothers me the most is the blind idolatry that is directed at Obama. For a smart dr youre not very smart. He is just a guy and most of us who oppose his policies DO NOT have anything personal against him. We want his policies to fail because many of his policies go against what this country is all about. It's not supposed to be the nanny state you dream of.
    I wouldn't care if the president was a blind albino named H itler. My "idolatry" is not directed at Obama because of the person he is, but rather that he has been able to impement policies that I DO believe they represent what this country is about....providing people life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. I think torture, unnecessary wars, and people dying for lack of health care kind of fit with what the framers had in mind. If you don't, fine. But I will vigorously support anyone who can accomplish what I think are appropriate goals....just like you would, if you could find someone on the right that you would be willing to go to the wall for. The "conservatives" of today would make Goldwater throw up violently, and Buckley was fed up as well. Nation-building, living and dying via the religious right, overseas misadventures...whatever they are, the current bunch of naysayers are not true conservatives. Limbaugh is a clown, Bachman and Palin are anti-intellectual fools pandering to the lowest common denominator...do you really think George Will has much in common with Sarah Palin? Really? And which of those people, or any others on the right, do you see as the savior of the republican party? You can spout all the polls you want right now. The economy is turning, and it will be a very very long time before there is a republican majority again. And that's just fine with me.
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by scoobdude View Post
    I don't want obama to fail. I would like everyone to be covered. I just don't believe large gov regulations is the answer. Especially when I did not vote for this. Now I lose my right to choose if I want healthcare and even have to pay for it if I don't get it.

    its very simple to understand. Big gov has not been able to cut spending, medicine is cheaper over both borders, and the deficit is already out of control. So we keep our troops overseas instead of bringing them home, whoch by the way would save more that this healthcare bill is supposed to, and we sit here and talk about only one article at a time. This is what does not make sense to me that people cannot see the big picture.

    but you go ahead with your life thinking its all about obama. Next time you talk to him tell him to bring our jobs back, stop bailing out corporations, and take the H1N1 vaccine like everyone else. Giving this gov track record things have not gotten better. This is what you are missing. NAFTA took jobs, CAFTA changed the way vitamins were held. Even stevia could only be considered a dietery supplement till it could be patented.

    its not about obama its about the big picture. Hopefully some day yiu will see.
    Hopefully some day I'll see? I suspect I've been "seeing" for many years before you were born. Just try considering that he didn't lose the jobs, he inherited the situation, there is evidence that the economy is improving, and if you care so much about vitamins, you probably don't even need a flu shot, right? BTW, every doctor I know has gotten the H1N1 vaccine.

    If you really think that everyone should be covered, and you don't see the fallacy about trying to do that with for-profit insurers, then you need to study up. Even the big picture is painted one part at a time.
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