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  1. Micael's Avatar
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    #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    Are we still talking about the clock?
    I think we're *still* talking about my being technically incorrect. I'm not quite sure. He lost me with the "I assumed you didn't necessarily agree with the way you presented it" part. I must be getting old....
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    Are we still talking about the clock?
    Indirectly. I was referring to his presentation of how 'people' defined 'analog' and 'digital' when referring to a clock display.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  3. Micael's Avatar
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    #23  
    In other words, my presentation bites. I should just close up shop.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    I think we're *still* talking about my being technically incorrect. I'm not quite sure. He lost me with the "I assumed you didn't necessarily agree with the way you presented it" part. I must be getting old....
    I suppose that's what I get when I try to address your post holistically instead of how I usually do which seems to also upset you. So, since we're already belaboring the point...
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Usually when people talk about "digital clocks" they're talking about the display.
    I realize that. However as xtn first pointed out, the clock in question has a digital display.
    Digital being an electronically switched display (turning on and off current to things like diodes that emit light or color),
    That is not what digital means (although it would be a subset).
    or analog displays which are mechanical, like with arms that turn.
    Mechanical and analog are not synonymous either.
    That clock has an analog (mechanical) display spoofing a digital (electronically switched) display. Very cool.
    No, it's a mechanical, digital clock. It's technically possible to have an electronic, semi-analog clock.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  5. Micael's Avatar
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    #25  
    Thanks for clearing all of that up, Toby. I stand corrected.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  6. #26  
    I have no idea how it works but I want one.
  7. #27  
    The clock itself is analogue. Its a mechanical design as opposed to electronic. No processing of bit values, all purely mechanical as far as i can tell.

    However the display of the clock is digital. As it uses numerical values to represent the time as opposed to analogue which uses hands (scale) to represent the time in a 12 hour format.
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow-360 View Post
    The clock itself is analogue. Its a mechanical design as opposed to electronic. No processing of bit values, all purely mechanical as far as i can tell.
    Processing of bit values is only a subset of digital. Digital only requires that the values be discrete, not necessarily binary. If your dial goes to 11 in discrete steps, it's digital. If it goes to 11 on a continuous scale, it's analog. The interesting twist here is that if you have a quartz watch, you actually have a digital watch with a semi-analog display (since a true analog display would have a continuous scale).
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  9. loganz's Avatar
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    #29  
    thats cool, i want one
  10. Micael's Avatar
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    #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    Processing of bit values is only a subset of digital. Digital only requires that the values be discrete, not necessarily binary. If your dial goes to 11 in discrete steps, it's digital. If it goes to 11 on a continuous scale, it's analog. The interesting twist here is that if you have a quartz watch, you actually have a digital watch with a semi-analog display (since a true analog display would have a continuous scale).
    Nice analogy, but I've seen clocks that have the numbers painted on panels that "flip" into view. Those are mechanical, not digital.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Nice analogy, but I've seen clocks that have the numbers painted on panels that "flip" into view. Those are mechanical, not digital.
    I didn't make an analogy really. It's pretty simple from my perspective, but I'm coming at this from a radio/recording/telephony world. Analog means something is represented by a continuous scale or wave. Digital means it is represented by discrete values or samples. I realize that the average joe may not think of it that way and if they see something with an LED/LCD/etc. display, they think digital, and if they see something with panels that flip, they think analog.
    Watch - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Clock - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Digital clock - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Analog - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Digital - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  12. Micael's Avatar
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    #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    I didn't make an analogy really. It's pretty simple from my perspective, but I'm coming at this from a radio/recording/telephony world. Analog means something is represented by a continuous scale or wave. Digital means it is represented by discrete values or samples.
    Thanks for the familiar links. By your definition, my example would be classified as "digital" because the time is represented by "discrete values or samples". It isn't digital. It's mechanical. Your definition fails that simple test.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Thanks for the familiar links.
    Did you bother reading them?
    By your definition, my example would be classified as "digital" because the time is represented by "discrete values or samples".
    Yes, the display would be if there was a discrete step. If the dials slowly turned continuously, it would be considered analog.
    It isn't digital. It's mechanical.
    You do realize that those aren't necessarily mutually exclusive, right?
    Your definition fails that simple test.
    It's not my definition. It's the definition of the word. By your definition, digital audio tape wouldn't be digital since it is mechanical.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  14. DrewPre's Avatar
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    #34  
    Personally, I thought digital meant the means by which data is communicated. That is to say with digital information is transmitted via 0's and 1's [binary]

    Clearly this clock does not do that, therefore it's Analog and not digital despite what it displays.

    However, ... Meriam-Webster defines the two as follows....

    analog -
    1 : of, relating to, or being an analogue
    2 (a) : of, relating to, or being a mechanism in which data is represented by continuously variable physical quantities (b) : of or relating to an analog computer (c) : being a timepiece having hour and minute hands
    digital -
    1 : of or relating to the fingers or toes <digital dexterity>
    2 : done with a finger <a digital rectal examination>
    3 : of, relating to, or using calculation by numerical methods or by discrete units
    4 : of, relating to, or being data in the form of especially binary digits <digital images> <a digital readout>; especially : of, relating to, or employing digital communications signals <a digital broadcast> — compare analog 2
    5 : providing a readout in numerical digits <a digital voltmeter>
    6 : relating to an audio recording method in which sound waves are represented digitally (as on magnetic tape) so that in the recording wow and flutter are eliminated and background noise is reduced
    7 : electronic <digital devices>; also : characterized by electronic and especially computerized technology <the digital age>
    It would appear based on definition of Analog, the one specifically referencing clocks, that an analog clock would have an hour and minute hand. The one in this thread does not therefore it must not be analog.

    The definition of digital [#5] states that it provides a readout in numerical digits. Clearly this clock does display numercal digits. Therefore it must be digital.

    So I stand corrected.
  15. Micael's Avatar
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    #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    Did you bother reading them?
    Yes, in fact, when the thread was started, I checked my understanding there, and with other resources.
    Yes, the display would be if there was a discrete step. If the dials slowly turned continuously, it would be considered analog.
    For clarification, you're saying that my example would be digital?
    You do realize that those aren't necessarily mutually exclusive, right?
    Yes.
    It's not my definition. It's the definition of the word. By your definition, digital audio tape wouldn't be digital since it is mechanical.
    No, it doesn't follow at all. Not even the same application of the term. This statement makes me not sure if you understand the distinction between "digital" and "digital clock display". Two totally different concepts.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Yes, in fact, when the thread was started, I checked my understanding there, and with other resources.
    Your statements make me not sure you actually did.
    For clarification, you're saying that my example would be digital?
    The way you describe it certainly sounds as if you're describing a digital clock display, albeit not an electronic one, i.e. LED, LCD, etc.
    No, it doesn't follow at all. Not even the same application of the term.
    That's sort of the point.
    This statement makes me not sure if you understand the distinction between "digital" and "digital clock display". Two totally different concepts.
    Not quite. They are two different things, but not different concepts. However, binary and digital are not de facto the same. Binary is a subset of digital data or processing, but not the only possible digital system.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  17. xtn
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    #37  
    It's a digital display because it displays discrete values as opposed to displaying infinitely variable values the way a motorized and geared clock with a dial face would.

    The clock mentioned with the flipping numbers has a digital display too.

    Digital audio recordings are so called because they sample sound at specific intervals and record it in some format of discrete values, for example ones and zeroes or some other limited set of possible values. Analog audio recordings are so called because they are recording the actual sound waves on a continuous basis in actual measured - and infinitely possible - values.
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by xtn View Post
    It's a digital display because it displays discrete values as opposed to displaying infinitely variable values the way a motorized and geared clock with a dial face would.

    The clock mentioned with the flipping numbers has a digital display too.

    Digital audio recordings are so called because they sample sound at specific intervals and record it in some format of discrete values, for example ones and zeroes or some other limited set of possible values. Analog audio recordings are so called because they are recording the actual sound waves on a continuous basis in actual measured - and infinitely possible - values.
    I think what's also throwing people is the mechanisms in how the clock works. I really haven't delved into that since the video isn't completely clear. For it to be analog, there would have to be some continually turning gears which cause it to operate. Simply having gears as part of the mechanism to turn the digits would not make it analog if the system that activates the gears is a discrete state system of relays, transistors, resistors, etc.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  19. xtn
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    #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    I think what's also throwing people is the mechanisms in how the clock works. I really haven't delved into that since the video isn't completely clear. For it to be analog, there would have to be some continually turning gears which cause it to operate. Simply having gears as part of the mechanism to turn the digits would not make it analog if the system that activates the gears is a discrete state system of relays, transistors, resistors, etc.
    For the DISPLAY to be digital, it doesn't matter at all what drives it. You're describing whether or not the mechanism is electronic.

    xtn
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by xtn View Post
    For the DISPLAY to be digital, it doesn't matter at all what drives it. You're describing whether or not the mechanism is electronic.
    Yes.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
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