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  1. #121  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    I will say, however, you are also just as wishy washy....are you saying GWB should have not talked to Putin? Which is it? Do we talk to these nuts or not talk to these nuts. You can't have it both ways either.
    I haven't asked to have it both ways, and never criticized Bush's actions in talking to Putin. I was, however, pointing out the hypocrisy in the fact that you had no issues with him "seeing Putin's heart", but mock Obama for talking to Ahmadinejad. If you can find any statements in which I criticized Bush's talking to Ahmadinejad, by all means show me.

    Change my man, change is what he was all about. Why do all Obama lover's defend him by saying "but GWB did this and that to"?
    I actually was noting the change: Obama hasn't taken a fraction of the vacation time as GWB. You'll note that I didn't say that Obama had a right to over 900 vacation days in 8 years, as Bush took. However, he does have the right to take a few days off for the holidays, and criticizing him for that, while not being similarly upset at Bush's spending the equivalent of 2-1/2 years on vacation is somewhat...inconsistent.
    Last edited by Bujin; 12/23/2009 at 01:16 PM.
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  2. #122  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    Again....is that what Obama ran on, status quo? Change my man, change is what he was all about. Why do all Obama lover's defend him by saying "but GWB did this and that to"? Change....this was his MAIN FOCAL point, "Change we can believe in", correct? I didn't believe it, and we are being proved correct in that Obama was simply lyi...oops....can't say the "L" word....how would a liberal say this....um....he was truth challenged?
    What a laugh you are. We are closing Gitmo, moving the captured to the US, we have saved the economy from disaster, we have probably saved the auto industry, we are about to pass a health care bill, our president won the Nobel Peace Prize, our standing with the rest of the world is largely restored, and we have a timetable for leaving Iraq and Afghanistan. He hasn't been in office one year yet. You actually don't see any of that as change? True, you can't see anything if you don't open your eyes. Try it.
  3. #123  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    What a laugh you are. We are closing Gitmo, moving the captured to the US, we have saved the economy from disaster, we have probably saved the auto industry, we are about to pass a health care bill, our president won the Nobel Peace Prize, our standing with the rest of the world is largely restored, and we have a timetable for leaving Iraq and Afghanistan. He hasn't been in office one year yet. You actually don't see any of that as change? True, you can't see anything if you don't open your eyes. Try it.
    ROFL......oh......thanks Davidra.....great laugh....whew, hadn't had such a good laugh since I saw Saint Tebow crying on the sidelines. Anyway....the Nobel Peace Prize really was a good one to stick in there for a final laugh. I wasn't refrencing changing to liberal views, I was referencing the "change" in how DC works. Nothing has changed there....it is the same deals behind closed doors that I hate whether it is Republicans or democrats. You probably don't remember this, but I am an advocate of term limits....not just for democrats (thought that would be nice), but for all politicians regardless of party affiliation. So, Obama said we wouldn't have all these earmarks, sneaky attachments to bills, behind door meetings....we would do things out in the open, you know, that magic word of his....what was it?....oh yes....transparency. He has no doubt tried to stick his liberal agenda in where ever he can. I don't call that change, I just call that being a liberal. But thanks again, nice laugh, I'll take that as your Christmas present to me....so thanks! LOL Nobel Peace Prize....LOL. Geez that's good.

    By the way....the latest goodie appears to be that they may have counted certain Medicare "savings" twice in the CBO numbers (haven't been able to check on that since I actually have been working today). Now that is a classic. Oh man is it going to be fun uncovering all that is hidden away in there and the 2074 page bill. Merry Christmas....now bend over.
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    #124  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    We are closing Gitmo,
    Except that we aren't until, oh, 2011 or later.

    moving the captured to the US,
    Except the ones that we haven't. And the ones that we moved to Yemen or Afghanistan. Gitmo is just a place. If the people are still being held what does your side gain out of it except some vague symbolism?

    we have saved the economy from disaster,
    Except that we haven't. To the extent that any of it "worked" it was done through continuing the Bush plan. But I think it was just a huge unnecessary giveaway.

    we have probably saved the auto industry,
    Propped up, you mean? Until the next time they need bailing out?

    we are about to pass a health care bill,
    Arguably a shadow of what you wanted and still no guarantee it will do anything except make medicine more difficult to practice.

    our president won the Nobel Peace Prize,
    That he admitted not deserving.

    our standing with the rest of the world is largely restored,
    Until the next time we do something they don't like. World "opinion" is a very fickle thing. If our president is chasing world opinion he'll be a very unfulfilled man.

    and we have a timetable for leaving Iraq and Afghanistan.
    Even if you think that's a good thing, a timetable is not a withdrawal. It's a political stunt.
  5. #125  
    Those are exactly the changes I was voting for. Too bad the republicans have refused to participate en mass. Bipartisanship would have helped, but obstructionist conservatives have nixed that idea. There will be no votes for anything put forth by democrats, regardless of the value...so if you consider that working for the good of the country, they're doing a great job, as evidenced by their 28% approval rating. Like I said...the changes that were most important to me are doing quite well, thank you.

    And if he had tried to cave to everything the right has demanded, nothing would get done...so I favor this approach. At least he's getting things done. You may not like them, but he's doing something. And I do like them.
    Last edited by davidra; 12/23/2009 at 05:37 PM.
  6. #126  
    And cloture has been invoked: a straight majority vote tomorrow. What can be more American than having the majority of votes rule?

    Let's get on to Conference Committee and pass a final version!
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  7. groovy's Avatar
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    #127  
    In case anyone's interested in some of the back room deals that went into the Senate bill:

    washingtonpost.com
  8. #128  
    It is done. Not perfect, but better than nothing. And now we make it better.

    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    In case anyone's interested in some of the back room deals that went into the Senate bill:

    washingtonpost.com
    Yeah, you know what? I don't know how much you know about legislation, but that's amazingly less than one might expect from a bill like this. And Dana Milbank knows it, too, having worked at the New Republic and WSJ as long as he did. What a fake.
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    #129  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    It is done. Not perfect, but better than nothing. And now we make it better.
    Please. Your guys have done quite enough damage already. Give it a break.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  10. #130  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Please. Your guys have done quite enough damage already. Give it a break.
    If I'm one of the 30 Million people who will now be eligible for coverage, or if I change my job (since my son has a pre-existing condition), I would hardly call it damage.
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  11. Micael's Avatar
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    #131  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    If I'm one of the 30 Million people who will now be eligible for coverage, or if I change my job (since my son has a pre-existing condition), I would hardly call it damage.
    It's not the benefits that have been in debate, Bujin (at least not for me), its how this monster is being implemented and how it will be paid for.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
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