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  1. #101  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    On the "death panels", I only quoted the video of Obama where he said (I didn't see it mentioned, I saw the video) maybe the 98 year old woman didn't need surgery, maybe a pain pill would have been the better option. I know you will say I am lying, or whatever, but he said it....go look it up. Sometimes Obama puts his foot right in his big ole mouth.....quite often actually.
    I did indeed see that. He was speaking about unnecessary medical procedures, and the importance of using data to make informed decisions.

    He stated that "if the evidence shows that some of the waste that exists in the system that's not making anybody's mom better, and loading up on additional tests and drugs that the evidence shows isn't necessarily going to improve care, we can at least let the doctors know, and your mom know, that this isn't going to help. Maybe you're better off not having surgery and having a pain pill".

    The important point being that the doctor and patient are making the decision, and the government can assist by providing data. Nowhere did he mention the formation of death panels, or anyone in the government deciding who lives or dies....only that the doctor needs data to determine if surgery is more appropriate than medication, particularly given the risks of surgical procedures for the very elderly (100 year old, in the case he was referring to) patient.

    The video can be seen .

    If the reality doesn't match what you "see mentioned", you can obviously choose which to believe.
    Last edited by Bujin; 12/21/2009 at 04:28 PM.
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  2. #102  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    I did indeed see that. He was speaking about unnecessary medical procedures, and the importance of using data to make informed decisions.

    He stated that "if the evidence shows that some of the waste that exists in the system that's not making anybody's mom better, and loading up on additional tests and drugs that the evidence shows isn't necessarily going to improve care, we can at least let the doctors know, and your mom know, that this isn't going to help. Maybe you're better off not having surgery and having a pain pill".

    The important point being that the doctor and patient are making the decision, and the government can assist by providing data. Nowhere did he mention the formation of death panels, or anyone in the government deciding who lives or dies....only that the doctor needs data to determine if surgery is more appropriate than medication, particularly given the risks of surgical procedures for the very elderly (100 year old, in the case he was referring to) patient.

    The video can be seen .

    If the reality doesn't match what you "see mentioned", you can obviously choose which to believe.
    You interpret it your way, and I'll interpret it my way. You will say I interpret it wrong, but I will say you interpret it wrong. As the months go by, many interesting things will be uncovered in the bill signed by Obama (it will get to his desk, and it will be signed, that is very clear at this point). As I stated earlier, I just hope that Americans will be outraged at the business as usual mentality that Obama has kept in DC and that a new wave of politicians (note no party mentioned) can get into office that will eventually cut back this amazing amount of beaurocracy and tax burden that is being dumped on us.
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  3. #103  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    You interpret it your way, and I'll interpret it my way. You will say I interpret it wrong, but I will say you interpret it wrong.
    My interpretation is based upon his actual words, though.
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  4. #104  
    There goes Lindsey Graham of SC "mentioning" about the false promise of Medicare reimbursements in the CBO plan. I just sent him an email that some folks in the Pre Central forum knows more about the plan than he does. Boy will he feel silly.

    He also mentioned a ponzi scheme....oops....I mean a solid plan in the Senate plan involving Long Term Care coverage. There are no benefits (payouts) for 5 years, but it is funded during that time. LOL Holy cow....this plan is amazing. Again, I'm not point fingers at the CBO, they simply analyze what is presented to them.

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  5. #105  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    There goes Lindsey Graham of SC "mentioning" about the false promise of Medicare reimbursements in the CBO plan. I just sent him an email that some folks in the Pre Central forum knows more about the plan than he does. Boy will he feel silly.
    Too bad you already sent it out... could you follow up by mentioning to him that the Geneva Convention actually does apply to the War on Terror? He got that one wrong as well.

    He probably didn't bother to read the bill, either....since he has no intention of voting for anything put forth.
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  6. #106  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    Too bad you already sent it out... could you follow up by mentioning to him that the Geneva Convention actually does apply to the War on Terror? He got that one wrong as well.

    He probably didn't bother to read the bill, either....since he has no intention of voting for anything put forth.
    We don't need to read it....all we have to do is come in here and ask you. I believe you are the only person who knows the 2000 page document backwards and forwards and, I might add, I am very impressed with your knowledge. If only everyone in the country knew that the expert on the Senate bill was in Pre Central.Net. Who'd a thunk it???? It is an honor to have you in here

    And besides, why would anyone need to read it....Obama has read it, and we certainly have found him to be truthful and is the new litmus test Prez on full disclosure, and, the CBO has read it....what else is needed!
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  7. #107  
    Clem has seen the light! Congrats!
  8. #108  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    Clem has seen the light! Congrats!
    What have you heard about HSAs? In? Out? Reduced? Or how about FSAs? In? Out? Reduced?
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  9. #109  
    Holy Cow.....just went to the link of HR 3590.....I figured if Bujin could become an expert, maybe I could? I had to laugh when I opened it and it was 2,074 pages! Congrats to Bujin for having read it all (and for his retention) because not many have.....which is scary.....because they just rushed something through and there is NO WAY anyone voting for it has read it. Of course, why worry, Harry Reid can be trusted, right? ROFL 2074 pages?

    Apparently DeMint (R-SC) just uncovered a provision dealing with a medicare issue in which the wording made it impossible for this particular provision (sue me, I didn't record the exact provision) to ever be overturned by a future Senate....is that even Constitutional? How sneaky is that? This bill is ridiculous.....even Harry Reid couldn't hide his glee at how many "goodies" were in there. Crazy....rushing a bill through, without reading it, and about 90% doesn't start until 2014. Good grief.
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  10. #110  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    Apparently DeMint (R-SC) just uncovered a provision dealing with a medicare issue in which the wording made it impossible for this particular provision (sue me, I didn't record the exact provision) to ever be overturned by a future Senate....is that even Constitutional?
    DeMint also is on record as claiming that Medicare and Social Security are unconstitutional, as do many "tenthers". The Supreme Court has routinely ruled against similar tenther claims. But you can choose to believe him regardless of the actual legality. It's a free country.

    I'm only for it because I heard from a guy, who heard from another guy, that there's a provision (I haven't seen it, but it was on the Internet, so it must be true) that everyone in America will get unlimited free pie. Yum.......pie!

    As for the provision itself (from Fox News) - it clearly points to the fact that it's not impossible to overturn the very limited subsection that DeMint's cherry-picked line referred to. It is of course yet another "death panel" distraction:

    But a senior Reid aide noted that the language restricting the repeal of the measure only applied to one subsection -- a subsection dealing with the manner in which the proposal for the board is introduced and considered in Congress. The aide said the language DeMint found "troubling" did not apply to board or its duties as a whole.

    Plus the aide noted that the language can be waived by a 60-vote majority in the Senate.

    "It's really a sign of desperation," the aide said.
    Last edited by Bujin; 12/22/2009 at 08:01 PM.
  11. #111  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    DeMint also is on record as claiming that Medicare and Social Security are unconstitutional, as do many "tenthers". The Supreme Court has routinely ruled against similar tenther claims. But you can choose to believe him regardless of the actual legality. It's a free country.

    I'm only for it because I heard from a guy, who heard from another guy, that there's a provision (I haven't seen it, but it was on the Internet, so it must be true) that everyone in America will get unlimited free pie. Yum.......pie!

    As for the provision itself (from Fox News) - it clearly points to the fact that it's not impossible to overturn the very limited subsection that DeMint's cherry-picked line referred to. It is of course yet another "death panel" distraction:
    LOL....amazing....a "senior Reid aide" huh? Oh yes, he is definitly the person to believe on this....LOL. Good grief....I guess next you'll quote one of Pelosi's aides? Seriously? One of Reid's aides said this? LOL Good one.
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  12. #112  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    LOL....amazing....a "senior Reid aide" huh? Oh yes, he is definitly the person to believe on this....LOL. Good grief....I guess next you'll quote one of Pelosi's aides? Seriously? One of Reid's aides said this? LOL Good one.
    And yet DeMint is more reliable? Pot....meet kettle. \

    It's merely common sense that Congress can repeal their own laws, DeMint's fear-mongering aside.
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  13. #113  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    And yet DeMint is more reliable? Pot....meet kettle. \

    It's merely common sense that Congress can repeal their own laws, DeMint's fear-mongering aside.
    Your only comment against his statement was the leading democrat's aide, what did you expect this "aide" to say, that DeMint was right? That was my point, what did you expect the aide to say? You call that proof that it isn't in there? Good grief. It's like when Obama says this will save the country money, so it's just time to stop saying otherwise. Oh, well, if Obama says it's true, I guess it is, LOL. Maybe take the blindfold off?

    By the way, has DC changed as Obama promised? ROFL I can't believe people believed Obama? Funny stuff....you really can't make this stuff up.
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  14. #114  
    What's really funny Bujin is that youre ok with the congress putting in a provision to prevent ever changing "something". How could that possibly be ok?

    Hypothetically here, if it was determined that this bill was bad for the people and the economy and the country, wouldn't you want to change it? You keep saying you about what's best for everyone. How could this be allowable?

    Not to mention it kinda makes the whole thing suspect. Is it even legal to remove the ability of the congress to change a law without a constitutional amendment?
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  15. #115  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof View Post
    What's really funny Bujin is that youre ok with the congress putting in a provision to prevent ever changing "something". How could that possibly be ok?

    Hypothetically here, if it was determined that this bill was bad for the people and the economy and the country, wouldn't you want to change it? You keep saying you about what's best for everyone. How could this be allowable?

    Not to mention it kinda makes the whole thing suspect. Is it even legal to remove the ability of the congress to change a law without a constitutional amendment?
    From Fox News, even:

    But a senior Reid aide noted that the language restricting the repeal of the measure only applied to one subsection -- a subsection dealing with the manner in which the proposal for the board is introduced and considered in Congress. The aide said the language DeMint found "troubling" did not apply to board or its duties as a whole.

    Plus the aide noted that the language can be waived by a 60-vote majority in the Senate.

    "It's really a sign of desperation," the aide said.
  16. #116  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof View Post
    What's really funny Bujin is that youre ok with the congress putting in a provision to prevent ever changing "something".
    Because that's just silly. Of course they can change their own rules. It requires 60 votes, like many other provisions (especially in these Republican filibuster-happy times). For example, many Democrats have made noise about repealing No Child Left Behind, but it also requires 60 votes.

    This "issue" is exactly like death panels or denial of funding for conservatives....simply "creative" readings of specific lines in order to strike fear into the hearts of the uninformed.
    Last edited by Bujin; 12/23/2009 at 08:47 AM.
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  17. #117  
    And I guess the Nebraska deal is also made up, correct? What a hoot. Actually, it is not a hoot, it is sad that this bill was so bad that democrats had to be bribed just so other democrats could run out and say "Merry Christmas America, look what WE did for YOU." Unfortunately, it should be look what WE did to YOU.

    I'm not saying deals haven't always been made on both sides, but weren't we supposed to be getting past all that now that the democrats were in charge and we had a Prez that was saying he was going to change all that? You know, have meetings in front of everyone so that we could see the process and be proud (LOL) of how the people's business was being conducted? I knew that wasn't going to happen....I'm not that naive....it's just that it was a major principal that the dude ran on. Hmmm....maybe Obama was the naive one....just like he thought he could talk to Ahmadinejad (damn that's hard to spell) "man to man". Off topic....but geez that cracks me up. LOL. Yes, the big O (not Oprah, but Obama) I think is very naive. When does he leave for Hawaii???? Another 5 million dollar trip! It's not only good to be the King, it's good to be the Prez, huh?
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  18. #118  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    From Fox News, even:
    Well at least you are finally admitting that Fox News is Fair and Balanced!
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  19. #119  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    ...just like he thought he could talk to Ahmadinejad (damn that's hard to spell) "man to man".
    .
    .
    .
    .
    When does he leave for Hawaii???? Another 5 million dollar trip! It's not only good to be the King, it's good to be the Prez, huh?
    Those criticisms would only be more believable, of course, if you'd also criticized Bush for "seeing Putin's heart", or criticized the record-breaking vacation time of GWB. I believe he spent over 900 days vacationing at either Camp David or his ranch. I realize some folks will criticize every single thing Obama's done, but that one's a bit of a stretch.
    Last edited by Bujin; 12/23/2009 at 09:24 AM.
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  20. #120  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    Those criticisms would only be more believable, of course, if you'd also criticized Bush for "seeing Putin's heart", or criticized the record-breaking vacation time of GWB. I believe he spent over 900 days vacationing at either Camp David or his ranch. I realize some folks will criticize every single thing Obama's done, but that one's a bit of a stretch.
    Again....is that what Obama ran on, status quo? Change my man, change is what he was all about. Why do all Obama lover's defend him by saying "but GWB did this and that to"? Change....this was his MAIN FOCAL point, "Change we can believe in", correct? I didn't believe it, and we are being proved correct in that Obama was simply lyi...oops....can't say the "L" word....how would a liberal say this....um....he was truth challenged?

    I will say, however, you are also just as wishy washy....are you saying GWB should have not talked to Putin? Which is it? Do we talk to these nuts or not talk to these nuts. You can't have it both ways either. But....I'm sure you'll correct me here if I'm wrong....did GWB run on "change we can believe in"?
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