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  1.    #1  
    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/31/us...avel.html?_r=1

    President Obama on Friday announced the end of a 22-year ban on travel to the United States by people who had tested positive for the virus that causes AIDS, fulfilling a promise he made to gay advocates and acting to eliminate a restriction he said was “rooted in fear rather than fact.”
    The United States is one of only about a dozen countries that bar people who have H.I.V., the virus that causes AIDS.
    Public health officials here have long said there was no scientific or medical basis for the ban.
    I'm glad we finally got rid of such a stupid policy. It's not like millions of aids zombies are waiting to overrun our shores and aidsify us.

    This ancient and naive policy was hurting innocent people who just wanted to visit our world renowned tourist destinations or highly educated people who would have benefited our economy. There is no reason to arbitrarily deny them their freedom to travel or live wherever they wish.

    The USA is slowly crawling into the 21st century. Now if only we could break out of that United States-Liberia-Burma alliance against the metric system.
  2. #2  
    Quote Originally Posted by JamesCarnley View Post
    The USA is slowly crawling into the 21st century. Now if only we could break out of that United States-Liberia-Burma alliance against the metric system.
    Metric system? Commie!

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  3. Micael's Avatar
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    #3  
    Last time I checked, we were using both U.S. units as well as the Metrics system, as needed. Why not both? It's not like we need to throw the old one away.... Oh, wait. That makes us different than the EU, doesn't it? That's terrible!
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  4. #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Oh, wait. That makes us different than the EU, doesn't it? That's terrible!
    I'm glad you are seeing things better now.
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Last time I checked, we were using both U.S. units as well as the Metrics system, as needed. Why not both? It's not like we need to throw the old one away.... Oh, wait. That makes us different than the EU, doesn't it? That's terrible!
    I think it's mostly because our units are confusing on a scale for children. I still have no idea how many feet or yards are in a mile, and I always forget how many cups are in a gallon.

    Metrics are easy multiples of 10, and once you get the eye in metrics it's much easier to predict distances and volume.

    And if we mix both, how would you calculate how many inches are in a kilometer? I'm sure there's a ratio but I sure don't know it, and it would defiantly take a calculator. I do however know it's 1000 meters, or a 1000000 Millimeters.


    But yeah, i'm with the original poster, it's similar to how you can't give blood if you've ever visited a country where HIV is prevalent, they're not neccissarily related and allowing one won't necessarily spread HIV.
  6. #6  
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  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Why not both?
    Maybe the better question is, why both? Why have two systems when one is simply better, other than habit. After all, we've been dithering on this issue for forty years.

    Being similar to the EU on this issue isn't, by definition, a bad thing. Using the metric system isn't condoning socialism, I promise.
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  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    Using the metric system isn't condoning socialism, I promise.
    Now don't be insincere here. Studies have shown that using the metric system will lead to socialized medicine in 7 out of 10 Americans.
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by JamesCarnley View Post
    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/31/us...avel.html?_r=1







    I'm glad we finally got rid of such a stupid policy. It's not like millions of aids zombies are waiting to overrun our shores and aidsify us.

    This ancient and naive policy was hurting innocent people who just wanted to visit our world renowned tourist destinations or highly educated people who would have benefited our economy. There is no reason to arbitrarily deny them their freedom to travel or live wherever they wish.

    The USA is slowly crawling into the 21st century. Now if only we could break out of that United States-Liberia-Burma alliance against the metric system.
    As a medical professional serving in an underserved/highly uninsured area, I can tell you that this policy wasn't enacted to prevent the spread of HIV to US citizens...
    Right now, I cannot tell you how many Non-US citizens (illegal aliens) that I am seeing for medical issues.. Our clinic is funded by the federal government (your tax dollars).. Many people flock to this country because they know they can get the best medical care here. Now we will be forced to treat numerous HIV patients that come into this country, and it'll all be on your (and my) bill.....
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    Now don't be insincere here. Studies have shown that using the metric system will lead to socialized medicine in 7 out of 10 Americans.
    Everything's Amazing and Nobody's Happy

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  11. groovy's Avatar
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    #11  
    I find it quite ironic that the president used the phrase "rooted in fear rather than fact” when the media, armed by a complicit CDC, has been spreading fear over facts about HIV for the last 25 years. Now, after so many years of telling the public that ever man, woman and child is at risk of infection, they want to lift this ban they claim is "rooted in fear".
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    I find it quite ironic that the president used the phrase "rooted in fear rather than fact” when the media, armed by a complicit CDC, has been spreading fear over facts about HIV for the last 25 years. Now, after so many years of telling the public that ever man, woman and child is at risk of infection, they want to lift this ban they claim is "rooted in fear".
    Educating the masses to the risks of HIV infection from risky behaviors is a far cry from having a dark ages plague mentality.
  13. groovy's Avatar
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    #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    Educating the masses to the risks of HIV infection from risky behaviors is a far cry from having a dark ages plague mentality.
    A lot of money and a lot of heartache could have been saved by telling the right people what the real risks are. But, alas, the media has since moved on to SARS, avian flu, and H1N1 so we're all safe from HIV... for now.
    Last edited by groovy; 11/21/2009 at 01:20 AM.
  14. Micael's Avatar
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    #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    A lot of money and a lot of heartache could have been saved by telling the right people what the real risks are. But, alas, the media has since moved on to SARS, avian flu, and H1N1 so we're all safe from HIV... for now.
    you mean my junk won't explode if I leave the house?
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by wcarlson40 View Post
    As a medical professional serving in an underserved/highly uninsured area, I can tell you that this policy wasn't enacted to prevent the spread of HIV to US citizens...
    Right now, I cannot tell you how many Non-US citizens (illegal aliens) that I am seeing for medical issues.. Our clinic is funded by the federal government (your tax dollars).. Many people flock to this country because they know they can get the best medical care here. Now we will be forced to treat numerous HIV patients that come into this country, and it'll all be on your (and my) bill.....

    Great point. I hadn't thought about that...
  16. groovy's Avatar
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    #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    you mean my junk won't explode if I leave the house?
    Well, I can't make any guarantees about that, but what I can say is that if you haven't engaged in certain very specific behaviors in the last 10-15 years, any explosions that may occur won't be from HIV.
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by zelgo View Post
    The best medical care...here? Wow, are THEY misinformed!

    People can't suddenly flock to the US--you STILL have to get through all the other immigration barriers.
    Yeah, I'll agree with your first statement....

    But, boy, are YOU misinformed.... I see patients that are illegal aliens everyday that have somehow gotten into the country without going through immigration. If they were pulled over by police for some reason, they would be immediately deported. But, because of HIPAA rules, we are 'encouraged' not to turn them in, and just treat their medical conditions and "turn the other cheek"... And yes, if you're paying taxes, you're paying for it.

    Quite frankly, I believe that "politically" the US government doesn't want illegal aliens (because it's not politically correct to voters), but the reality is, is that the US really does want them here because they make up a very important part of the US workforce.
  18. #18  
    Not sure I understand your point. If illegal immigrants circumvent immigration officials in the first place, why are you tying HIV+ people to illegal immigration? While both issues are valid, they are completely separate!
  19. Micael's Avatar
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    #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by wcarlson40 View Post
    Yeah, I'll agree with your first statement....

    But, boy, are YOU misinformed.... I see patients that are illegal aliens everyday that have somehow gotten into the country without going through immigration. If they were pulled over by police for some reason, they would be immediately deported.
    Sadly, this is not true.
    But, because of HIPAA rules, we are 'encouraged' not to turn them in, and just treat their medical conditions and "turn the other cheek"... And yes, if you're paying taxes, you're paying for it.

    Quite frankly, I believe that "politically" the US government doesn't want illegal aliens (because it's not politically correct to voters), but the reality is, is that the US really does want them here because they make up a very important part of the US workforce.
    Actually, the majority of the US does not support amnesty. That's fact, not belief.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  20. groovy's Avatar
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    #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by zelgo View Post
    The best medical care...here? Wow, are THEY misinformed!

    People can't suddenly flock to the US--you STILL have to get through all the other immigration barriers.

    The main effects are (1) we'll be able to have International Conferences on AIDS here again and the US will be seen as a leader in HIV/AIDS ideas again; ( 2) legally immigrating families won't be separated; (3) businesses will be able to choose from the best qualified individuals world-wide, not just the best qualified without HIV; (4) most importantly, it will reduce the stigma associated with HIV/AIDS.
    (1) How so? Last year, the US gave more than half of all the funds spent world-wide on fighting AIDS. If that doesn't make us a leader then I don't think the conference location will make any difference.

    (2) Doesn't make sense to me.

    (3) What is the percentage of foreign nationals turned down for jobs because of their HIV status? I don't know but my guess is its negligible.

    (4) Questionable. I don't think the stigma stems from government policies.

    Is this a good or bad idea? I don't know. But you haven't made the case for it. At any rate, it will certainly put more Americans at risk of infection.
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