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  1. Micael's Avatar
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    #81  
    The GOP elects their representatives based on values, and the Dems elect based on electability, values are secondary. Tell us something we didn't know.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  2. #82  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    The GOP elects their representatives based on values, and the Dems elect based on electability, values are secondary. Tell us something we didn't know.
    Unfortunately, those ideologically pure "values" don't match the views of the majority of the populace, and will continue to lose elections as those values exclude certain groups disproportionately - and ignores changing demographics. Angry old white folks can't be the sole target audience.
  3. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #83  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    Unfortunately, those ideologically pure "values" don't match the views of the majority of the populace, and will continue to lose elections as those values exclude certain groups disproportionately - and ignores changing demographics. Angry old white folks can't be the sole target audience.
    Fortunately for Conservatives your belief about the "majority of the populace" is a fantasy. You seem to buy into the propaganda of the left that attempts to define thing to suit them, but that's far different from reality. The "progressive" values aren't those of the majority of Americans. Candidates like President Obama only get elected by blatantly lying about who they are and what they represent.

    Keep wishing and hoping your fantasy of a leftist majority comes true. Nothing in the makeup of the electorate indicates this will happen, even considering the great success that the Obama campaign had at lying to the public and getting elected. Sooner or later, the electorate will realize they've been lied to.

    They already have, and despite the attempts of the media to paint the various protesters as radical fringe nut-cases, its not the case. These people ARE the majority out there who were lulled into a stupor by a guy who can deliver a good speech, and who adhere to principles and values enough to be willing to punish the Republicans who strayed into the arena of big government. Of course, by buying into the orchestrated lies of the Obama campaign they went from the frying pan into the fire, but they are learning the cost of that folly too.

    Hard to say what the future will bring, but I'd not bet on the Propaganda of the Progressive Left that defines themselves as the new majority. They never have been, and only their only hope of holding onto that power is by using the government as a tool AGAINST the people--to buy them off, scare them, create dependence, etc.

    The "progressive" statists are doing everything they can to dig in, and block the will of the people, and fortify their positions of power, regardless of what damage it does to the country in the name of "progress."

    No, the entire reason that President Obama was elected is that he promised a change from a government that people grew tired of. REFORM is what they want, and they aren't getting it--they are getting the exact opposite, and shame on them for buying such obvious lies. The Democrats are doing their best to buy off the public (with our own money), but it isn't going so well...at least not yet.

    KAM
  4. Micael's Avatar
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    #84  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    Unfortunately, those ideologically pure "values" don't match the views of the majority of the populace, and will continue to lose elections as those values exclude certain groups disproportionately - and ignores changing demographics. Angry old white folks can't be the sole target audience.
    That's what you'd like to believe, and please help yourself. I think that it's a valuable process, and good to have different values and ideas. How else do you protect a mainstream group from being hijacked by a minority with an extreme ideology?

    And here's another take on it. If both parties chose candidates based on poll and consultant determined "electability", at some point all candidates would be cloned moderates (distinguished only by their lapel pins).
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  5. #85  
    your a moron if you believe anything on the propaganda box (news)
  6. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #86  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    That's what you'd like to believe, and please help yourself.
    Its funny...in a pathetic way. What we are seeing here are a bunch of non-conservatives pretending to tell Conservatives (or libertarians in at least a few cases) what is best for them. That answer is essentially "You should be more like us."

    Why is this? Are these people actually sincere, but just so tied up in their own rhetoric and propaganda that they cannot discern reality from their narrow worldview, or are they just doing a really bad job at lying? Either way, the suggestions are laughable in many ways, although I will admit there is a KERNEL of truth in some of this. That is simply--moderates sell to moderates (independents). Of course this is nothing unknown to...oh anyone who has any degree of political savvy. This is why General election Candidates often look much different from primary candidates (even if the same person). They try to appeal to independents/moderates. If that's the sum of this "friendly advice," wow, brilliant. Really, write a paper on that.

    Here's what I think (and what you said in what I quoted)--Go ahead and keep thinking that. When someone starts believing their own propaganda (or that of those they side with), they are on their heels and waiting for a fall. When an opponent isn't able to discern between their propaganda and reality...that's a benefit to me.

    KAM
  7. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #87  
    Quote Originally Posted by deviousracing View Post
    your a moron if you believe anything on the propaganda box (news)
    I'd largely agree with that sentiment. At best it alerts one to a particular issue (but often doesn't) and then you can go and read about it from other various sources and try and discern the facts.

    Sometimes what is reported is true, but it is almost never the whole story.

    KAM
  8. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #88  
    Hello Everyone,

    Oh, by the way--MSNBC did apologize for using those fake photos of Sarah Palin and admitted their wrongdoing. Glad to see that. Of course, I guess that to be consistent, people complaining about Hannity should be calling for investigations there too.

    In my view, neither were substantial (although incorrect), and don't begin to approach the situation with CBS/Dan Rather. These were incidental mistakes, not intentional fabrications.

    KAM
  9.    #89  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    Fortunately for Conservatives your belief about the "majority of the populace" is a fantasy. You seem to buy into the propaganda of the left that attempts to define thing to suit them, but that's far different from reality. The "progressive" values aren't those of the majority of Americans. Candidates like President Obama only get elected by blatantly lying about who they are and what they represent.

    Keep wishing and hoping your fantasy of a leftist majority comes true. Nothing in the makeup of the electorate indicates this will happen, even considering the great success that the Obama campaign had at lying to the public and getting elected. Sooner or later, the electorate will realize they've been lied to.

    They already have, and despite the attempts of the media to paint the various protesters as radical fringe nut-cases, its not the case. These people ARE the majority out there who were lulled into a stupor by a guy who can deliver a good speech, and who adhere to principles and values enough to be willing to punish the Republicans who strayed into the arena of big government. Of course, by buying into the orchestrated lies of the Obama campaign they went from the frying pan into the fire, but they are learning the cost of that folly too.

    Hard to say what the future will bring, but I'd not bet on the Propaganda of the Progressive Left that defines themselves as the new majority. They never have been, and only their only hope of holding onto that power is by using the government as a tool AGAINST the people--to buy them off, scare them, create dependence, etc.

    The "progressive" statists are doing everything they can to dig in, and block the will of the people, and fortify their positions of power, regardless of what damage it does to the country in the name of "progress."

    No, the entire reason that President Obama was elected is that he promised a change from a government that people grew tired of. REFORM is what they want, and they aren't getting it--they are getting the exact opposite, and shame on them for buying such obvious lies. The Democrats are doing their best to buy off the public (with our own money), but it isn't going so well...at least not yet.

    KAM
    Really? Want to explain the changing of the majority of Congress before Obama was even considered? Sure, even republicans agreed that Bush was a pathetic president, but that wasn't the only reason. Sorry....I agree that you are the one with the fantasy....that the demographics of the population hasn't changed over the years, and that they are still going to be responsive to obstructionism and reactionary negativism. All that needs to be done is to motivate the voting electorate. Obama did that. Effort needs to be put into continuing that, but the long-term view for so-called libertarians and republicans is not good. But you and Sarah and O'Reilly and Beck and the rest of your heroes go ahead and hide your heads in the sand.
  10. #90  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    The "progressive" statists are doing everything they can to dig in, and block the will of the people, and fortify their positions of power, regardless of what damage it does to the country in the name of "progress."
    Yes, underhanded things like winning elections.

    By the way, loudly screaming opinions do not make them the majority "will of the people". This seems oddly appropriate:

    Area Man Passionate Defender Of What He Imagines Constitution To Be
    Everything's Amazing and Nobody's Happy

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  11. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #91  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    Really? Want to explain the changing of the majority of Congress before Obama was even considered? Sure, even republicans agreed that Bush was a pathetic president, but that wasn't the only reason.
    Yes, I'd be happy to. Simply--President Bush was very unpopular, and dragged his party down. Of course he can't be blamed completely, many Republicans gave the middle finger to their own party's candidates, largely due to abandoning fiscal responsibility.

    See--what you probably have a hard time understanding is that Conservative voters are willing to punish their representatives, because they hold to principles.

    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    Sorry....I agree that you are the one with the fantasy....that the demographics of the population hasn't changed over the years, and that they are still going to be responsive to obstructionism and reactionary negativism.
    That last line is interesting in that it couldn't be more wrong. I don't mean to be unkind but this is just laughable. Obstructionism and negativity is EXACTLY what the Democrats succeeded at. They (especially following the 2004 election) followed a very dedicated strategy of declaring Absolutely everything wrong, bad and a failure, and it worked amazingly well. Obstructionism...well, only since 2006, and that succeeded amazingly well also. Just look at how they benefited from the economy crashing, which occurred firmly under a Democrat congress (and lame duck Bush Presidency). They blamed and continue to blame President Bush for everything, and that works great with idiots who don't understand how government works.

    The exact thing that you say won't work is exactly what DID work--marvelously for the Democrats in two Congressional and a Presidential election. How can you be so obtuse to not realize this near perfect execution of this strategy by democrats.

    Now, I don't recommend this for Republicans, because I don't advocate harming the country in order to win elections. That's something Democrats are apparently very comfortable doing. Declaring defeat while we have soldiers in the field, talking down an economy (which was stable and growing at the time), literally labeling everything as a "failed policy" whether it was working or not. Unfortunately, the citizens of this country have to reap what these opportunistic, power hungry politicians sowed. Of course, they are so incredibly skilled at the blame game, lying and media manipulation that few even bother to recall these things. It doesn't surprise me that the general public doesn't remember and punish them for these dangerous, power-at-all-costs practices.


    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    All that needs to be done is to motivate the voting electorate. Obama did that. Effort needs to be put into continuing that, but the long-term view for so-called libertarians and republicans is not good. But you and Sarah and O'Reilly and Beck and the rest of your heroes go ahead and hide your heads in the sand.
    Yes, Candidate Obama certianly did motivate the Electorate, but then again--the political landscape made it nearly impossible for a Republican to win (again, reference the nation-damaging campaign of the Democrats from 2004-2008+). Of course even that might not have succeeded without the massive campaign of lies and obfuscation that the Obama campaign succeeded at. They successfully lied to the public (with the help of a compliant media) and fooled them into thinking that he was something very unlike he is far from--a pragmatic moderate.

    No, the Democrats had a very effective strategy built on the negativity that you now claim to dislike so much, as well as falsely running against a President who was not a candidate. Of course, it didn't hurt to have a pathetic McCain Campaign afraid of its own shadow.

    Oh, I wish we could fast forward a year to see who is right about this. You think this perfect storm that went all the Democrats way is indicative of a change in the electorate? Well, think whatever you want, but it doesn't seem at all likely to me.

    But don't believe me--look at all the indications out there. The trends are all opposite of what you and your pals imagine it should be in terms of the President. President Obama's popularity is not going up.

    If you want to get an honest assessment (for your own benefit, having nothing to do with me) start looking at the methodologies, and numbers behind the headlines, and you'll see.

    Can't predict the future, but I can assess the present, and your claims are hard to support.

    KAM
    Last edited by KAM1138; 11/19/2009 at 08:48 AM.
  12. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #92  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    Yes, underhanded things like winning elections.

    By the way, loudly screaming opinions do not make them the majority "will of the people". This seems oddly appropriate:

    Area Man Passionate Defender Of What He Imagines Constitution To Be
    Oh no, unlike liberal crybabies I don't make up conspiracy theories in order to live in fantasy land when my side loses. Instead I learn why. They won fair and square (if not honestly).

    That's a funny Onion story, but of course I don't need to imagine anything. Despite the best efforts of progressives and statists to treat it like a curiosity rather than a supreme law, some of us do actually understand it. I know this probably bothers you and mocking people who values such things is a tried and true leftist tactic.

    Weren't you the one telling me that when you begin to insult (mock) someone that you've lost. Oh, shoot, you must have forgotten that. You're so self defeating.

    KAM
  13. Micael's Avatar
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    #93  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    Really? Want to explain the changing of the majority of Congress before Obama was even considered? Sure, even republicans agreed that Bush was a pathetic president, but that wasn't the only reason. Sorry....I agree that you are the one with the fantasy....that the demographics of the population hasn't changed over the years, and that they are still going to be responsive to obstructionism and reactionary negativism. All that needs to be done is to motivate the voting electorate. Obama did that. Effort needs to be put into continuing that, but the long-term view for so-called libertarians and republicans is not good. But you and Sarah and O'Reilly and Beck and the rest of your heroes go ahead and hide your heads in the sand.
    lol. good luck with that train of thought!
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  14. Micael's Avatar
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    #94  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    Yes, underhanded things like winning elections.

    By the way, loudly screaming opinions do not make them the majority "will of the people". This seems oddly appropriate:

    Area Man Passionate Defender Of What He Imagines Constitution To Be
    The idea that you would use the onion to illustrate your point is somehow very appropriate. It's not odd to me at all. In fact, it's spot on!
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  15. #95  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    I believe that the stereotype of journalism being liberal is that by it's nature it's purpose is to keep an eye on those in charge. Whether they be politicians or businesses poisoning the community at a profit. By it's nature it asks questions of the status quo which is contrary to a Conservative attitude.
    IMHO, publishing what is happening or the facts of an event should not liberal or conservative. Unfortunately, it has devolved into just pushing editorials and ideology as entertainment.
  16. RPFTW's Avatar
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    #96  
    Quote Originally Posted by jewel View Post
    in fox i think they really are "fair and balanced."
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