View Poll Results: After reading post one. I believe:

Voters
92. You may not vote on this poll
  • Obama records should be finnally brought to light.

    26 28.26%
  • He has already shown all that is needed to be President.

    44 47.83%
  • He is president now. Leave him alone.

    22 23.91%
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  1. Micael's Avatar
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    #81  
    IMO this whole birther thing is a total waste of time, money, effort, and bandwidth, and distracts from more important issues.... like the economy, healthcare reform, Afghanistan and Iran.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  2. #82  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    IMO this whole birther thing is a total waste of time, money, effort, and bandwidth, and distracts from more important issues.... like the economy, healthcare reform, Afghanistan and Iran.
    Absolutely!
    And where is both sides getting the money to fight this in court? What a waste!
  3. #83  
    weird. We agree on something micael, is this the start of the whole mayan end of the world thingy?
  4. #84  
    Quote Originally Posted by berdinkerdickle View Post
    Absolutely!
    And where is both sides getting the money to fight this in court? What a waste!
    sadly one side is fund raising by claiming they have found various documents proving obama was born in kenya or proof that he supports hamas, or that obamas lawyers look "nervous". Even more fustrating is the tax payers are funding the defense.
  5. Micael's Avatar
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    #85  
    Quote Originally Posted by mrloserpunk View Post
    weird. We agree on something micael, is this the start of the whole mayan end of the world thingy?
    Either that or some other scenario has kicked off. See you in Megiddo.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  6. Micael's Avatar
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    #86  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1thing2add View Post
    Certainly doesn't appear to be distracting those who are dyed-in-the-wool anti-Obama/Democrat or otherwise known as anything to the left of Atilla the Hun. They're still tilting at multiple windmills on multiple fronts.

    As I've been saying, they're conducting a marriage of Whitewater II (at tax-payer expense) to Southern Strategy (to divide and conquer thru fear), including the slime-machinery that comes along at no extra charge!
    "They"? You mean (dramatic musical score) a conspiracy?
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  7. wjclint's Avatar
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    #87  
    Quote Originally Posted by mrloserpunk View Post
    sadly one side is fund raising by claiming they have found various documents proving obama was born in kenya or proof that he supports hamas, or that obamas lawyers look "nervous". Even more fustrating is the tax payers are funding the defense.
    Actually I believe the defense fees are paid for by political contributions which is allowed by FEC for these types of suits (as opposed to Alaska election laws which more strictly limit the use of political contributions for legal fees which is why Sarah Palin got in trouble when funds were raised to pay her legal fees for ethics complaints against her). So I suppose technically taxpayers are paying for the defense, but they are paying for it with contributions not taxes.
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  8. #88  
    Quote Originally Posted by mrloserpunk View Post
    weird. We agree on something micael, is this the start of the whole mayan end of the world thingy?
    FWIW, even the Maya getting tired of that one.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  9. #89  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    wow. If I could thank you 2012 times for that link, I would. I love it.

    Of course, Coast to Coast AM is still fun to listen to, even if they're all nuts.
  10. groovy's Avatar
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    #90  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    ...Hollywood's "2012" opens in cinemas, featuring earthquakes, meteor showers and a tsunami dumping an aircraft carrier on the White House.
  11.    #91  
    Toby -You should start a thread on this thing. It would not be outdated until Dec 12 2012. It should have highest growth of any thread. Then we will have to hear about some second chance or maybe second coming because we survived the date. Everyone could tell what they were doing around midnight that day or how (in my case) the wife is driving them nuts about the whole damn thing. I just tell her that I'm going to miss that day because I will be busy walking the dog. Heck it can't come anyways since we all here will be waiting for the Palm "Steroid" phone. Silent, terror, enveloped, radio, office, implanted, director.
  12. #92  
    Quote Originally Posted by ccureton View Post
    <snip>

    just for the record. While john mccain was born in an area surrounded by the country of panama he was not born in panama. He was born on a us military base which is us soil. Therefore he was born in the united states.

    <snip>
    I hate to tell you this, but...

    Birth on U.S. Military Base Outside of the United States or Birth on
    U.S. Embassy or Consulate Premises Abroad:

    (1) Despite widespread popular belief, U.S. military installations abroad
    and U.S. diplomatic or consular facilities abroad are not part of
    the United States within the meaning of the 14th Amendment. A
    child born on the premises of such a facility is not born in the
    United States and does not acquire U.S. citizenship by reason of
    birth.
    (Rats, I can't post links yet! It is from the State Department website.)

    If being a natural born citizen requires that you are born on US soil, then he isn't one.

    Sucks, huh?

    The Congress needs to pass a statute to change that.
  13. #93  
    Lets face it, the conspiracy freaks are going to have their day either way. Side one, ohhh I heard the judge refused to hear certain info that would have proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that Obama is not a natural born american, or two oooohhh the judge refused to allow certain documents that prove he is a natural born american. Either way, this will continue. Much like who shot kennedy, or did we really land on the moon, or the earth is really flat, or or or.. geeeeshhhh.. some people too much time on their hands.
  14. #94  
    Obama is compared in some circle to the Kennedy era, camelot, and such. The other night, my wife and I were watching a program called Amazing race. In this episode they were required to travel to Cambodia, go to a certain hotel, and identify a picture. The picture was of Jackie Kennedy riding in the back of an open car with the then leader of the country. With very few exceptions, as in about two, no one even recognized the woman. Calling her everything from the queen of that country, describing her as asian in looks. I do believe that perhaps instead of arguing over or debating over, frivolous items, perhaps you should look to making sure the citizens of your great country have a smattering of knowledge about their own country. Just a thought.
  15. wjclint's Avatar
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    #95  
    Quote Originally Posted by red red rose View Post
    I hate to tell you this, but...


    (Rats, I can't post links yet! It is from the State Department website.)

    If being a natural born citizen requires that you are born on US soil, then he isn't one.

    Sucks, huh?

    The Congress needs to pass a statute to change that.

    This is one of those things that comes up in this "debate" that I just can't wrap my brain around. In what warped version of the English language does "natural born" equate to a geographic restriction? Do the birther's think our Founding Father's were so inept at basic English that if they wanted a geographic restriction they couldn't figure out how to say "born on American soil" or "born within the geographic boundaries of the United States of America" or something like that? The argument that "natural born" equals "born on American soil" is completely nonsensical.

    If there actually were evidence that our President was born somewhere other than the United States such as Kenya (and there is no such evidence) the only reason that fact would disqualify him would be because of the age of his mother; it has absolutely nothing to do with where he was born. The fact that McCain was not disqualified even though he was not born on American soil is the perfect example of this. McCain himself, before he ran for president the first time in 1999, even hired lawyers to research the issue for him so that he wasn't wasting his time. If President Obama's mother had been a little bit older this wouldn't even be a debatable topic even if we had a picture of his birth with a pride of lions in the background.

    If you don't believe this you need to read 8 U.S.C. 1401 - including the history of that statute all the way back to Obama's birth. If you want to really understand the issue you should read it all the way back to when the very first Congress passed the Naturalization Act of 1790 which recognized you don't have to be born on American soil to be "natural born." Here is a link to the 1790 naturalization act: A Century of Lawmaking for a New Nation: U.S. Congressional Documents and Debates, 1774 - 1875 .

    People really need to stop saying you have to be born on American soil to be president - the constitution doesn't say that, and not even the very fist Congress thought that.
    Phone History: VisorPhone --> Treo180 --> Treo650--> Treo700p--> PalmCentro --> HTCTouchDiamond (2weeks) --> PalmCentro --> Palm Pre
  16. #96  
    Quote Originally Posted by red red rose View Post
    I hate to tell you this, but...


    (Rats, I can't post links yet! It is from the State Department website.)

    If being a natural born citizen requires that you are born on US soil, then he isn't one.

    Sucks, huh?

    The Congress needs to pass a statute to change that.
    That applies to children born to non-US citizens. There are already statutes which govern citizenship at birth.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  17. #97  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    IMO this whole birther thing is a total waste of time, money, effort, and bandwidth, and distracts from more important issues.... like the economy, healthcare reform, Afghanistan and Iran.
    Truth!
    "Brace yourself, you beautiful *****. I am about to **** you up with some truth!" - Kenny Powers

    "I don't mind paying taxes. With taxes, I purchase civilization."
    - H.L. Mencken
  18. wjclint's Avatar
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    #98  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1thing2add View Post
    We all know Ted Olsen (Bush v. Gore) to be the principle Republican operative that McCain relied on for his supportive opinion. That much is indisputable. However, it has been shown that the law pertaining to birth to 2 US citizen parents in the Canal Zone in 1936 did not provide McCain with "natural born"-status due to the gap in the law pertaining to the Canal Zone not being corrected until 11 months after his birth. These points were not included or addressed by Olsen.



    What the Tea-bagger/Birther folks are hoping for is a minor, technical glitch in the record-keeping of Obama's birth in Hawaii. They are not pursuing a position that he was born elsewhere, if you'll notice, though they will extrapolate that storyline from any victory they may achieve. If they can successfully find some shred of evidence, no matter how minor, that an 'i' was not dotted correctly, it will give them all the moral victory they could want. If they succeed to that end, they will beat that drum unmercifully thru the mid-terms and the 2012 presidential election. No responsible court will allow this to go forward, though there are plenty of Conservative judges who would love to preside over a case like this.
    I have to disagree with your first paragraph a little bit. It was Ted Olsen but it was also Constitutional lawyer Laurence Tribe, who is a Democrat, that wrote the memo/brief saying McCain qualified as a natural born citizen, not just Olsen.

    The statute in effect at the time of McCain's birth provided "natural born" status to ". . . . .any child hereafter born out of the limits and jurisdiction of the United States, whose father or mother or both at the time of the birth of such child is a citizen of the United States" and had lived in the United States. So the only way McCain is not qualified would be if the Panama Canal Zone was within the limits of the USA and within the Jurisdiction of the USA. The argument you are expressing would suggest that although the canal zone is clearly outside the limits of the USA it was within its jurisdiction in 1936.

    This argument (not loophole) was eliminated by statutory amendment later, but not because the reading you suggest was agreed to by everyone, but because there was at least some doubt. Sorry, but I think that doubt was way overblown. The canal zone was not in the "jurisdiction" of the USA as that term was used in the statute in effect at the time.

    I agree with you that some of the birthers do not focus on the "born in Kenya" hypothesis. In fact the lawsuit referenced in the OP (to the extent you can tell though the incoherent, and mentally unstable, ramblings in the complaint) is a RICO/Racketeering suit and their argument is that President Obama can't be president even if he was born in Hawaii. But the public perception, and the first birther lawsuit, are based on the idea that he was born in Kenya.

    What I think most people don't understand is that the legal issue involved in the whole birther thing, whether you apply it to the people that sued McCain, or the ones that sued and are suing Obama (and his wife, and Biden, and . . . . . ) is not some black and white clear cut issue, but is instead an issue that turns on the interpretation and construction of United States Statutes that date back to 1790 and have been amended multiple times.

    Now the factual issue is very clear cut - Obama was born in Hawaii - so the legal issues as applied to him are irrelevant.
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  19. #99  
    <~~~~~~running for president
  20. #100  
    hahahahaaha
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