View Poll Results: After reading post one. I believe:

Voters
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  • Obama records should be finnally brought to light.

    26 28.26%
  • He has already shown all that is needed to be President.

    44 47.83%
  • He is president now. Leave him alone.

    22 23.91%
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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by mrloserpunk View Post
    I'd love a link reguarding this to, anything non-partisan. This is huge, just have never heard this claim. I would say fact-check.org has been reliable in the past, and with no obvious bias....
    As is Politifact.com: PolitiFact | 'Birthers' claim Gibbs lied when he said Obama's birth certificate is posted on the Internet

    From Politifact:

    On Oct. 31, 2008, Dr. Chiyome *****o, director of the Hawaii Department of Health, issued this statement: "There have been numerous requests for Sen. Barack Hussein Obama’s official birth certificate. State law prohibits the release of a certified birth certificate to persons who do not have a tangible interest in the vital record.

    "Therefore I, as director of health for the state of Hawaii, along with the registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawaii State Department of Health has Sen. Obama's original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures.

    Even the governor of Hawaii, Linda Lingle, a Republican who at the time was stumping for John McCain, said it was on the up-and-up.
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  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by mrloserpunk View Post
    weird. Having trouble finding anything related to this...Only thing I can find googling Obama and Fake Birth Certificate brings up info on the MULTITUDE OF FAKED BIRTHER CLAIMS. Weird. Mind Linking something?
    Well, since google is the be-all, end-all of human knowledge, I must be wrong. Oh, except the part where who knows how many people, myself included, saw it, and then saw it change. The Obama camp even admitted the first one was a fake, but their explanation was that it was just something that was thrown up temporarily for looks while they were trying to get the real one up. This isn't even conspiracy theory stuff. This is CNN.

    Quote Originally Posted by Finally Pre View Post
    mrloserpunk - yea, it was up there and then got change real quit when individuals started to really look at it. I think someone posted the first one in hast since at that time the birth record question started to gain momentum.
    Yup, and I was one of many people who got to see it.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1thing2add View Post
    McCain had to sit in court and Senate hearings regarding the status of his citizenship as it relates to his eligibility to serve as president? Really? Where's the public record?

    Just promise to still be here after a competent judge rules on this case.
    I'm 80% sure there were hearings on it, but I certainly could be wrong. None the less, it's a whole different discussion anyway. He was born to American Citizens stationed at an American military base, and nobody ever disputed that.

    Just promise to still be here? I don't even know what you're referring to. I can only assume you're referring to me being here after I'm "proven wrong." Which just demonstrates that you didn't really read my comments, or you would have seen in my very first post that I believe it is highly unlikely that there is any real problem with his citizenship, and that I'm glad it's going to court just for the sake of ending a debate.


    To whoever made the comments about charging the court fees to the people bringing this law suit if they turn out to be wrong (which you and I seem to agree is the most likely outcome) I don't see any need to impose the costs on them.

    1. They couldn't pay them anyway.
    2. They will be so publicly disgraced by this epic failure that their careers will probably be over. Of course, in the remote chance that Obama turns out to be ineligible, he'll be pretty well out of luck instead.
  3. #23  
    I think it's great that the birthers want to align themselves with the lunatic Orly Taitz, who wrote this bit of insanity following the Nobel announcement. If anyone can read this and not think she's a looney, then I don't have an answer for you:

    Orly Responds To Nobel Prize Announcement | Fired Up! Missouri
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    #24  
    Please see the Factcheck.org Website and stop with all this crap. Get a life! Here's the address: ^^^factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html^^^
  5. #25  
    [QUOTE=ccureton;1967095]
    Quote Originally Posted by 1thing2add View Post

    just for the record. While john mccain was born in an area surrounded by the country of panama he was not born in panama. He was born on a us military base which is us soil. Therefore he was born in the united states.


    [url]
    Not true, only applies to embassies.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by VeeDubb65 View Post
    The Obama camp even admitted the first one was a fake, but their explanation was that it was just something that was thrown up temporarily for looks while they were trying to get the real one up. This isn't even conspiracy theory stuff. This is CNN.
    It absolutely is conpiracy theory stuff. Can you show one reference on CNN that shows that his birth certificate changed, or that Obama's people admitted that they put a fake one up?

    You obviously don't believe the governor of Hawaii, the other officials from the state, the people from FactCheck.org, or the Honolulu observer. There is absolutely no evidence that supports this claim, which makes it just one more conspiracy theory.

    Any evidence to support it? Any reference from a respected source at all?
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  7. #27  
    To whoever made the comments about charging the court fees to the people bringing this law suit if they turn out to be wrong (which you and I seem to agree is the most likely outcome) I don't see any need to impose the costs on them.

    1. They couldn't pay them anyway.
    2. They will be so publicly disgraced by this epic failure that their careers will probably be over. Of course, in the remote chance that Obama turns out to be ineligible, he'll be pretty well out of luck instead.?


    really? They put the state of ca and the federal government, the state of hi and all the indivduals associated through needless hassle? I say take a cue from another judge and bury the lawyers for the ridiculous and expensive process. What did that judge do to miss taizt?

    and I know google's not the end all. But the internet is a very big place and for some odd reason it seems that there is simply no credible referance available to you and me...but again there are plenty of hoax obama certs(miss taizts has found several already)

    is it possible he is not? Very very very remotely. Like its possible my uncle saw bigfoot in moravia...should we spend millions more(on top of what obamas political enemies have spent on the issue) hell no!
    Last edited by mrloserpunk; 10/10/2009 at 11:50 PM.
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    You obviously don't believe the governor of Hawaii, the other officials from the state, the people from FactCheck.org, or the Honolulu observer.
    I do NOT believe anything the Honolulu Observer or anything any other Newspaper says, because I lost all respect for the credibility of the newspapers a long time ago. Of course, that's a whole separate topic.

    However, you are 100% dead wrong about the rest of that. I've said over and over again in this discussion that I believe the chances of there being any real validity behind this stuff is remote, and that the only reason I'm happy about the trial is that it will end the debate.

    Quote Originally Posted by mrloserpunk View Post
    really? They put the state of ca and the federal government, the state of hi and all the indivduals associated through needless hassle? I say take a cue from another judge and bury the lawyers for the ridiculous and expensive process. What did that judge do to miss taizt?

    and I know google's not the end all. But the internet is a very big place and for some odd reason it seems that there is simply no credible referance available to you and me...but again there are plenty of hoax obama certs(miss taizts has found several already)

    is it possible he is not? Very very very remotely. Like its possible my uncle saw bigfoot in moravia...should we spend millions more(on top of what obamas political enemies have spent on the issue) hell no!
    I could care less about putting the government through "hassle." Not my concern. Clearly, whether they should or not, there are a lot of people who don't agree with you and I, that the possibility here is extremely remote. This trial will shut them up. Also, as I've said, the professional consequences will be far more dire than a fine they would never be able to pay.

    Destroying someone's career is a terrible consequence. Adding an unpayable fine doesn't really change anything.


    The problem with the internet where things like this are concerned, is that there are so many crazy lunatic fringe sites, that it can be VERY difficult to find the very small number of references that show there might be some remote possibility that this is legitimate. One more time with feeling, I PERSONALLY saw the fake certificate before it was pulled (initially thinking it was fine, because it was a good fake) and then saw what appears to be a real one later. Me personally. I saw it. There was one birth certificate, and then a week later, there was a very different certificate. Different format, different design, just very very different.

    Do I think that means he's not a natural born US citizen? Not even close. I think their explanation is far more plausible, but does leave the possibility, no matter how remote, that there's something hinky going on.

    This trial will settle the matter.


    The thing is, you and I agree on the big issue. Yes, it's possible, but it's incredibly unlikely.

    Where we disagree, is that I believe that if there is any doubt what so ever, it should be dealt with immediately, and not hushed up because the odds are remote. You seem to prefer subverting the constitution when following through is a "hassle."
  9. #29  
    hmm he bows to Saudi king yet refuses to show a simple BC



    Now to my point,I don't have one.

    .
    Last edited by slingbox; 10/11/2009 at 04:47 AM.
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by slingbox View Post
    hmm he bows to Saudi king yet refuses to show a simple BC
    Yeah, the bow really ticked me off, but not at Obama. He should have been better coached on etiquette and not bowed. Yeah, it would be basic minimal respect for you or I to bow, but heads of state aren't supposed to bow to each other. I really hope that whatever aid should have briefed him on the encounter got fired for it.

    However, he has shown a BC. He just hasn't passed it around to every single person who has questioned it, and he did one or two stupid things in the beginning (probably because of pride) that made people inclined to be paranoid, even more paranoid.

    The debate is about whether or not his birth certificate is really legitimate, and while it's possibly not legitimate, the odds of that are pretty remote.
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by VeeDubb65 View Post
    Yeah, the bow really ticked me off, but not at Obama. He should have been better coached on etiquette and not bowed. Yeah, it would be basic minimal respect for you or I to bow, but heads of state aren't supposed to bow to each other. I really hope that whatever aid should have briefed him on the encounter got fired for it.

    However, he has shown a BC. He just hasn't passed it around to every single person who has questioned it, and he did one or two stupid things in the beginning (probably because of pride) that made people inclined to be paranoid, even more paranoid.

    The debate is about whether or not his birth certificate is really legitimate, and while it's possibly not legitimate, the odds of that are pretty remote.
    Yeah the bow ticked me off as well.
    Better coached hmm you would think prez of the free world.. not so free in the very near future would have figured that out on his own but anyway.
    The BC has many questions due to authenticity shown in his home town paper ,passed to Fact Check-we lean left.
    Questions questions still remain is it the real deal or a fake.
    He could put a sock in the mouth of doubters...it would benefit him and are country tremendously if provided.
    If Bush held back such document the press would be eating him up , Obama seems to have gotten a free pass no big deal we love him treatment as usual.
    Last edited by slingbox; 10/11/2009 at 05:34 AM.
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by slingbox View Post
    Better coached hmm you would think prez of the free world.. not so free in the very near future would have figured that out on his own but anyway.
    Interesting tangent. I guess it has to do with what expectations you place on the President. Personally, I believe that we 'should' be able to expect the President to figure these things out without being coached.

    However, I think it's been quite a few decades since this country had a president from either party who was a great statesman. We could debate who the last "Great statesman President" was, but I suspect we'd all agree it isn't Obama, wasn't Bush, Clinton or Bush Sr.

    At this point, I pretty happy if they do less damage than I expected. Especially Obama. I was so disappointed in my options for the last presidential election, I really didn't care which candidate won. I ended up casting my vote (as usual) for the one that I hoped would do the least damage, but even that was a really tough call. Having to choose between Obama and McCain as president was a bit like having to choose between cutting off a foot and cutting off a hand. Now, if Mitt Romney had won the primaries.....

    I had a debate with one of my friends around the election for Bush's second term. I had voted for him the first term, and planned to vote for him a second time. My buddy rattled off a litany of all the stuff the man had messed up as president and asked me why on earth I'd vote for him again.

    I said, "Simple. He did exactly what I wanted him to do in office - slightly less damage than I suspected Gore would do, and I'm voting for him again because as much as I expect him to get wrong, I think Kerry might get just a little more wrong."

    Just once in my life, I'd really like to vote FOR a president, instead of against one.....
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by VeeDubb65 View Post
    Just once in my life, I'd really like to vote FOR a president, instead of against one.....
    It would be nice.
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by VeeDubb65 View Post
    I do NOT believe anything the Honolulu Observer or anything any other Newspaper says, because I lost all respect for the credibility of the newspapers a long time ago. Of course, that's a whole separate topic.
    You don't think the newspaper's birth announcements are credible? That's just....silly.
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  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by VeeDubb65 View Post
    The debate is about whether or not his birth certificate is really legitimate, and while it's possibly not legitimate, the odds of that are pretty remote.
    The odds are non-existent.
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  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by VeeDubb65 View Post
    ...I'm happy about the trial is that it will end the debate....
    It won't end the debate. It will go on forever. Even when he's out of office somebody will still be pushing it trying to prove their point.
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  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by palandri View Post
    It won't end the debate. It will go on forever. Even when he's out of office somebody will still be pushing it trying to prove their point.
    Of course it won't end. After the September court date, in which the judge threatened her with sanctions for filing frivolous suits, Orly Taitz accused him of treason, and of having secret meetings with Eric Holder. Conspiracy theorists are capable of impressive mental gymnastics in twisting events to fit their insane worldview.
    Last edited by Bujin; 10/11/2009 at 11:11 AM.
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  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by slingbox View Post
    If Bush held back such document the press would be eating him up , Obama seems to have gotten a free pass no big deal we love him treatment as usual.
    A Birth Cert is a pretty personal thing. I mean we as a nation don't have a right to it do we? Do we have rights to other medical records? How about meetings on the public dime in tax payer owned offices reguarding future energy policy?

    Should we be able to view that? How about previous military records or deferment papers? This is a load of hot air. Our president, is still a citizen. And his citizenship has been confirmed by the appropriate authorities in his home state. So John Q Public gets to challenge any ruling by any official? How about I bring Gov Patterson to court over the soft drink tax?

    Its not about transparency. Its about right wing nut jobs. (see orly) Pure and simple. I don't agree with doing it to simply to close the case. Because it wont. Orly is calling judges that rule against her traitors. You think the birthers in this case are not going to simply call the latest judge corrupt? It wont end. They will come up with yet another conspiracy or "flaw" But by imposing a STIFF fine for the Taxpayer's time, it will show that not only could you lose your prestige or credibility, but also your shirt.
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  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    Of course it won't end. After the September court date, in which the judge threatened her with sanctions for filing frivolous suits, Orly Taitz accused him of treason, and of having secret meetings with Eric Holder. Conspiracy theorists are capable of impressive mental gymnastics in twisting events to fit their insane worldview.
    The real traitor is that scumball solider that refused to deploy because of his assertion that obama is not the commander in chief. That's desertion in my mind. UCMJ says he could be executed because of it in times of war. I hope he got an Article 15 outta it at least!
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  20.    #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1thing2add View Post
    ...My original birth certificate differs from a copy I requested and received from my state of birth too. Was I really born here or not? Do I really exist?...
    You are talking about the highest, most powerful office in the land. In the constitution it says "Natural Born". I would think that for the office of US President we would be able to see an ORIGINAL birth certificate. In some cases there are fires or other events that destroyed these records. But there has been no claim of that by anyone. There are all kind of scandals, hidden stories, and attorneys surrounding these politicians of late. So it would just be nice that at least the #1 spot could have a complete resume (sort of speak). Is it really that much to ask FOR the citizens of this great country? The majority of these government jobs seem to be corrupt or in question. Political figures (all parties) can do almost anything and they still have their job. If you or I drove DWI or were convicted of tax evasion would we even have a job to go back to? Why, do WE have to live at a higher standard then them? This court case will put an end to all the talk.
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