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  1. groovy's Avatar
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    #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    Any of those may be true - however, the simple fact is that he promised to improve our standing in the eyes of the world and has accomplished this. Whether it's due to his actions, or simply by comparison with our last administration is somewhat irrelevant to me.
    Well, since you used the word "admirably" you did, in fact, attribute it to his actions. Unless you're saying his being Black or his not being Bush are admirable. But I don't admire politicians for things nature gave them.
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    Well, since you used the word "admirably" you did, in fact, attribute it to his actions. Unless you're saying his being Black or his not being Bush are admirable. But I don't admire politicians for things nature gave them.
    Well, not being Bush can certainly be seen by some as admirable.

    I'm curious as to why you stated that his approval has dropped, but chose to ignore the article I cited that showed his approval has gone up. You'll also note that approval of a health care overhaul has similarly moved back upwards:

    AP Poll: Health care overhaul has a pulse - Yahoo! News

    So, to answer the central question of this thread, it appears to me that his presidency has (in 9 months):
    - begun the reversal of the worst economic crisis in our lifetime
    - improved the world's admiration of us, at a pace that is unprecedented
    - on the road, despite vehement opposition from the "deathers"/ "birthers" / "10ers" / etc, to perhaps finally succeeding in reforming health care.

    Not a bad start, all in all. YMMV.
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  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    And I'm not anti-Democratic. Jeez, you just HAVE to put me in SOME sort of stereotypical slot, don't you! My views aren't party based, race based, gender based, or otherwise "based". I'm topic based. Got it? It depends on the subject. Sometimes I land squarely in with the Democrats, and sometimes I land in with the Republicans. The group I land in with most often are Libertarians, but even then, it depends on the topic.
    Where do your views land squarely with the Democrats?
    Everything's Amazing and Nobody's Happy

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  4. groovy's Avatar
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    #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    Well, not being Bush can certainly be seen by some as admirable.

    I'm curious as to why you stated that his approval has dropped, but chose to ignore the article I cited that showed his approval has gone up. You'll also note that approval of a health care overhaul has similarly moved back upwards:

    AP Poll: Health care overhaul has a pulse - Yahoo! News

    So, to answer the central question of this thread, it appears to me that his presidency has (in 9 months):
    - begun the reversal of the worst economic crisis in our lifetime
    - improved the world's admiration of us, at a pace that is unprecedented
    - on the road, despite vehement opposition from the "deathers"/ "birthers" / "10ers" / etc, to perhaps finally succeeding in reforming health care.

    Not a bad start, all in all. YMMV.
    You're right that it's moved back upward but the public is still pretty divided on the subject. I'll give you that it's not dead yet but it's a far cry from being a notch in Obama's belt.

    Regarding the first point, I hope that we are in recovery but I personally think it's hype. There are too many factors and no hard numbers to prove we're out of troubled waters. Unemployment is still rising, commercial real estate is still dropping, foreclosures rates are still rising, manufacturing is still weak and there are still fears of the dreaded double-dip. Most recessions have periods of growth but the overly optimistic view of current events (not even growth but merely slowed decline) have me a bit puzzled and skeptical.
    Last edited by groovy; 10/07/2009 at 03:33 PM.
  5. Micael's Avatar
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    #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1thing2add View Post
    You and Glenn Beck! And his cast of Tea-baggers. Your displeasure with how easily you fit in with Republicans is noted. As is your convenient cherry-picking from the sidelines where issues are concerned. And here I thought Fox News gave newly manipulated definition to "fair & balanced".

    If you're ok with emboldening Republicans, then there ya go! Just don't expect to be recognized as something "unique" when you march in lock-step with the rest of the 'Becks' of the world. Otherwise, who knows? A real dialogue might accidentally happen!
    You really seem to enjoy chewing people out for being themselves. Do you have children?
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  6. Micael's Avatar
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    #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    Where do your views land squarely with the Democrats?
    I've already opened up enough of myself. With all due respect, I'll let you decide that for yourself. Like 1thing2add, I'm sure you'll have me magically pigeonholed into some stereotype without a lot of help from me.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  7. #47  
    Micael, arguing is a dead end at this point. If you've noticed from his posts in other threads, the anti-Republican rants have nothing to do with your actual views. He simply refuses to acknowledge any outside view, such as Libertarianism or even just good old fashioned individualism.

    They're his weapon against anyone opposed to the current massive Statist push. Any rejection of the various controls and takeovers being pushed is shouted down with a "Republicans are worse and if you don't support the Czars you must be one!".

    It's just a false dichotomy: shut up, pay your taxes, and accept whatever power grabs The Party tells you to, or you must be a racist extremist who won't be "bi-partisan".

    Sorry, but this isn't some D vs R thing. It's a conflict between the Anointed Ones who want to establish a ruling political class and lord over the peons, and those who simply want the burden of Omnipotent Government off their back.
  8. #48  
    I always think it's funny when folks use statements like "current massive Statist push". Loudness at town hall meetings doesn't equal a public mandate.....that mandate was stated very clearly in the election 11 months ago.
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  9. groovy's Avatar
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    #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    I always think it's funny when folks use statements like "current massive Statist push". Loudness at town hall meetings doesn't equal a public mandate.....that mandate was stated very clearly in the election 11 months ago.
    Just to be clear, what is that mandate?
  10. #50  
    Really now, sliming? Not at all. Take in to account the 8 Bush years and this is child play material.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1thing2add View Post
    ... and the sliming continues ...

    What I wouldn't give if I could only thank and respect those opposed for rising above cheap politics and acting as responsibly adult Americans!
  11. Micael's Avatar
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    #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    Just to be clear, what is that mandate?
    Its probably the one that's driven Obama's approval ratings into the toilet.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Its probably the one that's driven Obama's approval ratings into the toilet.
    Don't let the facts distract you from the talking points - oh, that's right...you're not a Republican, nor Anti-Democrat.

    Reposted for your enjoyment:

    AP Poll: Obama's job approval rises amid concerns - Yahoo! News

    Fifty percent of those surveyed said they approved of the president's handling of the economy, up from 44 percent in September. And 48 percent said they approved of his handling of health care, up six points and about equal to the 47 percent who said they disapproved.
    Last edited by Bujin; 10/08/2009 at 02:34 PM.
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  13. groovy's Avatar
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    #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    Don't let the facts distract you from the talking points - oh, that's right...you're not a Republican, nor Anti-Democrat.

    Reposted for your enjoyment:

    AP Poll: Obama's job approval rises amid concerns - Yahoo! News
    Still a net decrease in all areas over six months ago.
  14. groovy's Avatar
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    #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1thing2add View Post
    Your cataclysmic epiphany is that the president is beyond the honeymoon period that every president experiences?

    How do all these "neuvo"-Independents vote again?
    I'm not an independent.
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Its probably the one that's driven Obama's approval ratings into the toilet.
    As of today his rating per the Gallop poll is 53%. How is that "in the toilet?" Do you even try anymore?
    "Brace yourself, you beautiful *****. I am about to **** you up with some truth!" - Kenny Powers

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  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    Still a net decrease in all areas over six months ago.
    In other words, his numbers declined in exactly the same fashion as every other president. Calling it "in the toilet" is just a silly statement.
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  17. groovy's Avatar
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    #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    In other words, his numbers declined in exactly the same fashion as every other president. Calling it "in the toilet" is just a silly statement.
    So is attributing our world standing to anything he's done, in my opinion.
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    So is attributing our world standing to anything he's done, in my opinion.
    Unless you want to say that the world thinks of us as weaker.
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    So is attributing our world standing to anything he's done, in my opinion.
    The Nobel folks disagree, obviously.
  20. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by V1cK dB View Post
    Unless you want to say that the world thinks of us as weaker.
    I think you're confusing strength with arrogance.
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