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  1. Micael's Avatar
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    #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by ryleyinstl View Post
    Change, especially of the political type, takes time. The situation in Iraq didn't turn into a cluster $%^@ overnight and it will take time for Obama to make his changes.
    Sorry, but try as he might, Obama won't be able to bring Saddam back to life, apologize, and give Iraq back to him.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  2. Micael's Avatar
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    #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    What has the right brought to the table in regards to health care reform other than "don't mess with it" and "OMG DEATH PANELS!!!"
    Your point was that somehow the Republican's are blocking Obama from doing his job. What's the slogans of a few activists have to do with it? Are you saying the town hall meeting attendees have frozen Obama in his tracks?
    You're right. He was voted in office with the intent of giving us a single payer system and he should have just jammed it through...
    ... he just may still get it. They can still jam it through. I personally think that they will.
    What failures? Things still being worked out in the house and senate are not failures...

    Again, what failures? Other than the Olymipcs, name one...
    Club Gitmo, still there. Patriot Act, still got it. Iraq, still a success. Afghanistan, still a mess. Single payer healthcare passed by August, nope still here. Iran, still a mess... no, worse. North Korea, still a mess.

    Sorry folks... No Change Here... move along.... nothing to see here...
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  3. #23  
    Ya....as great as that would be I was thinking about the actual things his administration wants to achieve.

    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Sorry, but try as he might, Obama won't be able to bring Saddam back to life, apologize, and give Iraq back to him.
  4. Micael's Avatar
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    #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1thing2add View Post
    Where was your wisdom over the last 8 years when it might have counted? When did you take issue with the party you vote for when each of these actions, and the build-up to them, were made?
    One more time... and this is the last time. I am *NOT* a Republican.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  5. Micael's Avatar
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    #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1thing2add View Post
    For the last time, I didn't say you were. I said the party you vote for. There's a distinction that matters.
    The party I vote for hasn't been in office for centuries
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  6. Micael's Avatar
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    #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1thing2add View Post
    You poor, poor lost soul!

    Why the lock-step alignment with rightwingers? The closest living relative to your own dinosaur?
    It's not lock-step. And it's not so much that I'm in alignment with them. I just totally disagree with you on most (not all) things, and you seem to assume I'm "one of them".
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Club Gitmo, still there.
    The "right" fought the closing of it, and told the public that the prisoners would be realeased into their home towns. Lies. Should not have existed in the first place. BLOCKED

    Patriot Act, still got it.
    Obama has not yet addressed this. Should not have existed in the first place.

    Iraq, still a success.
    But Bush said "mission accomplished"? We have been pulling troops out but you can't just out completely, that would create even more instability than we already have. Should not have existed in the first place.

    Afghanistan, still a mess.
    Obama said, during his campaign, that he was going to shift our military efforts to Afghanistan, and that is what he did. How is that a failure?

    Single payer healthcare passed by August, nope still here.
    Again, still in process. Can not be considered a failure yet. Would have been done sooner if the republicans would actually be part of the process instaed of more "blocking".

    Iran, still a mess... no, worse.
    When has Iran not been a mess? Obama has opened up communications with Iran and it looks like we may be getting some headway. Too soon to tell. Not "worse" by a long shot.

    North Korea, still a mess.
    Again, like Iran, when has it not been a mess? How was it supposed to be fixed in 8 months? Where was Obama's campaign promise to fix this? Come on.
    "Brace yourself, you beautiful *****. I am about to **** you up with some truth!" - Kenny Powers

    "I don't mind paying taxes. With taxes, I purchase civilization."
    - H.L. Mencken
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    The party I vote for hasn't been in office for centuries
    Whig Party?
    "Brace yourself, you beautiful *****. I am about to **** you up with some truth!" - Kenny Powers

    "I don't mind paying taxes. With taxes, I purchase civilization."
    - H.L. Mencken
  9. #29  
    One of the things he promised to accomplish was to improve our standing in the world - it seems he's done this quite admirably:

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20091005/.../us_usa_status

    "What's really remarkable is that in all my years studying national reputation, I have never seen any country experience such a dramatic change in its standing as we see for the United States for 2009," said Simon Anholt, the founder of NBI, which measured the global image of 50 countries each year.
    <insert inevitable criticism of Obama here>

    I think it's ironic that so many on the right were positively gleeful that America lost out on the Olympics. It goes to show that the right (in the words of Jon Stewart) "hate Obama more than they love America".
    Last edited by Bujin; 10/06/2009 at 08:42 PM.
  10. groovy's Avatar
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    #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    One of the things he promised to accomplish was to improve our standing in the world - it seems he's done this quite admirably:

    U.S. most admired country globally: survey - Yahoo! News
    I'm not exactly sure how much that poll reflects our "standing in the world". I'm also not sure what Obama would have done to get that big of an increase, especially considering those same pollsters suggest Obama's job approval and handling of health care have also gone down drastically--among Americans at least.

    But it appears that when you look into the details, not only has our governance improved in the eyes of the poll respondents, but also the culture, people, and tourism. One might extrapolate from this that those respondents were impressed more with the fact that America actually voted for an African-American President, regardless of who it was. Or maybe they were just glad to see the last administration go. In either case, there's absolutely no evidence that anything Obama actually did raised our standing in the world.
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    I'm not exactly sure how much that poll reflects our "standing in the world".
    Well, we were 7th most admired country internationally last year, and first this year - I'm sure that, if you are predisposed to being negative towards Obama, you wouldn't be disposed to make a link between this fact and our international standing. The founder of the organization disagrees: "There is no other explanation," Anholt said in an interview, referring to the impact of Obama.


    But it appears that when you look into the details, not only has our governance improved in the eyes of the poll respondents, but also the culture, people, and tourism.
    While culture, tourism and people are part of the survey, there's no information in that article to indicate that our overall score is due to any improvements in those areas. And since our country hasn't had any noticeable shifts in those areas, it's more logical to attribute the improvement to the one area in which we did indeed have a shift: governance. And as I stated above, the founder of the NBI agrees.

    I'm also not sure what Obama would have done to get that big of an increase, especially considering those same pollsters suggest Obama's job approval and handling of health care have also gone down drastically--among Americans at least.
    His job approval decline was the same historical decline that occurs with every president, and has been moving back upwards:

    AP Poll: Obama's job approval rises amid concerns - Yahoo! News

    Fifty percent of those surveyed said they approved of the president's handling of the economy, up from 44 percent in September. And 48 percent said they approved of his handling of health care, up six points and about equal to the 47 percent who said they disapproved.
    Last edited by Bujin; 10/06/2009 at 08:53 PM.
    Everything's Amazing and Nobody's Happy

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  12. groovy's Avatar
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    #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    Well, we were 7th most admired country internationally last year, and first this year - I'm sure that, if you are predisposed to being negative towards Obama, you wouldn't be disposed to make a link between this fact and our international standing. The founder of the organization disagrees: "There is no other explanation," Anholt said in an interview, referring to the impact of Obama.
    But the founder of the organization points to no clear evidence either. My point is not that our numbers in this poll haven't increased over past years. It's that I don't know how accurately this poll reflects our world standing tangible ways. For example, who were the people being polled? Heads of State? Policy-makers?

    While culture, tourism and people are part of the survey, there's no information in that article to indicate that our overall score is due to any improvements in those areas.
    This, from one of the pollsters:

    This improved perception of the U.S. is not only in the area of Governance, there are improved perceptions for People, Culture and even Tourism of the United States,” adds Xiaoyan Zhao, Senior Vice President and director of the NBI study at GfK Roper Public Affairs & Media.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    And since our country hasn't had any noticeable shifts in those areas, it's more logical to attribute the improvement to the one area in which we did indeed have a shift: governance. And as I stated above, the founder of the NBI agrees.
    I'm curious why you didn't respond to any of my alternate explanations. Perhaps the reason could be that we voted for a minority President. Or simply that we have a new administration. The latter would seem like a more likely explanation considering how unpopular our last administration was.
  13. #33  
    I think it's very clear what's going on here.

    After all, SNL is notorious for its racist, extremist, stubborn opposition to the Anointed Ones and the control they deserve to have over us. Plus they won't just shut up and be "bipartisan" by agreeing with whatever takeover the politicians come up with next.

    Damn that Lorne Michaels...
  14. Micael's Avatar
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    #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    Obama has not yet addressed this.
    I rest my case.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    I rest my case.
    So, how is that a "failure"? I thought in order to actually fail at task, you have to attempt said task first? Does that mean that I have failed at skydiving because I have never jumped out of a plane? Am I a failed writer because I have never written a novel? I have never been to med school, does that mean I failed at being a doctor? You did not respond to my other comments in that post, only a snippet of one. The whole part was:

    YOU: Patriot Act, still got it.

    ME: Obama has not yet addressed this. Should not have existed in the first place.

    Does that mean you fail at debate?
    Last edited by Kenanator; 10/07/2009 at 09:51 AM.
    "Brace yourself, you beautiful *****. I am about to **** you up with some truth!" - Kenny Powers

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  16. Micael's Avatar
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    #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    So, how is that a "failure"? I thought in order to actually fail at task, you have to attempt said task first? Does that mean that I have failed at skydiving because I have never jumped out of a plane? Am I a failed writer because I have never written a novel? I have never been to med school, does that mean I failed at being a doctor? You did not respond to my other comments in that post, only a snippet of one. The whole part was:

    YOU: Patriot Act, still got it.

    ME: Obama has not yet addressed this. Should not have existed in the first place.

    Does that mean you fail at debate?
    Harr. You call that debate? I stated fact. You agreed he hasn't addressed it, as in "still got it". How is that failing at debate? I'd say you've been pwned at debate.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Harr. You call that debate? I stated fact. You agreed he hasn't addressed it, as in "still got it". How is that failing at debate? I'd say you've been pwned at debate.
    You made points and I disproved/rebuttal-ed all of them. You only responded to one point and you did so incorrectly! Please tell me how I was "pwned"?

    PM me your address. I want to send you a dictionary so you understand what constitutes a "failure" and a "debate"...
    "Brace yourself, you beautiful *****. I am about to **** you up with some truth!" - Kenny Powers

    "I don't mind paying taxes. With taxes, I purchase civilization."
    - H.L. Mencken
  18. Micael's Avatar
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    #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1thing2add View Post
    Do you really think that Micael believes that by broad-brushing his anti-Obama rhetoric that he doesn't realize there is only one beneficiary to his effort? That being the Republican party and its plan for healthcare insurance reform:
    OK, lets try this ONCE MORE. I am not a Republican, nor do my views mirror thiers. Here's some examples of how far I fall out of thier camp of ideology:

    1) I support gay marriage.
    2) I support decriminalization of the use of certain drugs, and lessening punishments for the heavier narcotics - shifting the focus more towards rehabilitation and prevention, and away from federal incarceration.
    3) I want an even smaller Fed than the Republicans do, with minimal regulations. Maintain law and order, and keep the business playing fields as level as possible; but otherwise stay the heck out of the way.
    4) I believe in universal health coverage, but not if it's funded and managed by a single payer system. Yes, even for illegal aliens (even though I have a real problem with them being here in the first place).
    5) I'm not a Christian. That alone puts me at odds with many in the Republican party.

    See? I'd make a terrible Republican!

    So please, stop viewing me through the "Republican Party" filter. You've made many statements and accusations about me that seem to be based on assumptions that are not correct.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    I'm curious why you didn't respond to any of my alternate explanations. Perhaps the reason could be that we voted for a minority President. Or simply that we have a new administration. The latter would seem like a more likely explanation considering how unpopular our last administration was.
    Any of those may be true - however, the simple fact is that he promised to improve our standing in the eyes of the world and has accomplished this. Whether it's due to his actions, or simply by comparison with our last administration is somewhat irrelevant to me.
    Everything's Amazing and Nobody's Happy

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  20. Micael's Avatar
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    #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1thing2add View Post
    Today's convenient "neuvo"-Independents feel the same way. Your (and their) anti-Democratic/Obama blistering rhetoric does not help anyone's agenda but that of the Republicans when all is said and done. If you are so blind to not recognize this reality, not much else can be said. That's not opinion. That's history.
    So I should hush up and stop detracting from Obama lest the Republican's benefit?

    Sorry, that approach isn't going to work. I'm allowed to voice my opinion. It's not my fault that we have a two party system. Maybe some day we'll have three, like Canada, perhaps?

    And I'm not anti-Democratic. Jeez, you just HAVE to put me in SOME sort of stereotypical slot, don't you! My views aren't party based, race based, gender based, or otherwise "based". I'm topic based. Got it? It depends on the subject. Sometimes I land squarely in with the Democrats, and sometimes I land in with the Republicans. The group I land in with most often are Libertarians, but even then, it depends on the topic.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
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