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  1. Micael's Avatar
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    #41  
    Whoa, slow down there tex! One conspiracy theory at a time please!
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  2. #42  
    It's all 1 big conspiracy Michael, you just have to read and do your research. Notice how a majority of the people were against the "bailouts" of the banks, yet it was done anyway? Do you really think a vote matters? Why is the US mainstream media not talking about the coming global currency? France, China, Germany, Japan and Russia are discussing it daily. It is being discussed right now at the UN!

    20 years ago, the thought of the Euro and the European Union was laughed at. Right now people are laughing at the thought of the North American Union.

    Research!!!

    Here's Lou Dobbs CNN


    Look up the Amero (North American Currency) This was on cnbc


    Its all in front of you, you just can't see it because you refuse to, and call it a wild conspiracy.
    Last edited by notaphonegeek; 09/14/2009 at 02:25 PM.
  3. Micael's Avatar
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    #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by notaphonegeek View Post
    Its all in front of you, you just can't see it because you refuse to, and call it a wild conspiracy.
    No, just asked if you could bring in one at a time. Please don't take offense, but it's kind of hard to have a conversation with someone that combines 6 different topics/theories in the same breath.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  4. Micael's Avatar
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    #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by notaphonegeek View Post
    It's all 1 big conspiracy Michael, you just have to read and do your research. Notice how a majority of the people were against the "bailouts" of the banks, yet it was done anyway? Do you really think a vote matters? Why is the US mainstream media not talking about the coming global currency? France, China, Germany, Japan and Russia are discussing it daily. It is being discussed right now at the UN!

    20 years ago, the thought of the Euro and the European Union was laughed at. Right now people are laughing at the thought of the North American Union.

    Research!!!

    Here's Lou Dobbs CNN


    Look up the Amero (North American Currency) This was on cnbc


    Its all in front of you, you just can't see it because you refuse to, and call it a wild conspiracy.
    Come to think about it.... why don't you start this up on another thread... or even several threads - one for each theory. This one is focused on attacking the previous administration.
    Last edited by Micael; 09/14/2009 at 04:10 PM. Reason: clarification
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  5. #45  
    Michael, I know you are the moderator, but its actually 1 big conspiracy rolled into several administrations. I appreciate the fact that you don't believe it, but it's still relevent to the current topic.
  6. #46  
    I know Micael, you want us to stipulate that its not torture in your opinion(one that appears to be in the minority) but just water right?...



    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Were international laws broken?
    Torture, according to the United Nations Convention Against Torture, is:

    ...any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him, or a third person, information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity. It does not include pain or suffering arising only from, inherent in, or incidental to, lawful sanctions.
    —UN Convention Against Torture[1]


    Waterboarding is a form of torture that consists of immobilizing the victim on his or her back with the head inclined downwards, and then pouring water over the face and into the breathing passages, causing the captive to believe he or she is dying.[1] By forced suffocation and inhalation of water, the subject experiences the sensation of drowning.[2] Waterboarding use is considered a form of torture by legal experts,[3][4] politicians, war veterans,[5][6] medical experts in the treatment of torture victims,[7][8] intelligence officials,[9] military judges,[10] and human rights organizations.[11][12]

    In contrast to submerging the head face-forward in water, waterboarding precipitates an almost immediate gag reflex.[13] The technique does not inevitably cause lasting physical damage. It can cause extreme pain, dry drowning, damage to lungs, brain damage from oxygen deprivation, other physical injuries including broken bones due to struggling against restraints, lasting psychological damage or, if uninterrupted, death.[3] Adverse physical consequences can start manifesting months after the event; psychological effects can last for years.[7]


    Simply crafting a legal opinion that is clearly in violation of UN Agreement is not a sufficient defense. John Yoo, Jay Bybee and Steven Bradbury should all be disbarred and never be permitted to practice or teach law again.
    Last edited by mrloserpunk; 09/14/2009 at 04:54 PM.
    "When there is no more room in hell, the dead will walk the earth"


    PM me your questions, If I cant find an answer, I'll show you who can.
  7. rfceo's Avatar
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    #47  
    Sen. John McCain was asked about this on one of the Sunday morning shows and he said that he is totally against torture. He said that it does not get what you want, people will say anything to get it to stop true or not. He also stated that it only helped al Qaeda to do more recruiting. He talked to an operative in prison and was told that what the US was doing only increased the amount of young men joining al Qaeda. It really put mud on the face of every American. Yes it should be investigated and not swept under the table. To many politicians are getting away with things that they should not be. They should also do away with any contributions or gifts of any type to politicians. Why do you think that any gift from another country to the President is not his to keep. Time to turn the government back to the people... once elected a politician works for ALL people from his home area. Not for one party or several large companies that do him favors.
    NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW.
    Those who say that this party or that party has put our nation where it is, needs to look at the entire Congress over the last say 20 years. They pass the bills, the President only signs them.
  8. Micael's Avatar
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    #48  
    Personally, I think all of this is to distract us away from Pelosi's having foot in mouth disease.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  9.    #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    This one is focused on attacking the previous administration.
    I think it depends on your perspective. To me, its inconsistent for someone to think Clinton's impeachment was on the up and up, while Bush's is pure politics, just as its inconsistent for someone on the other side to think that Clinton's impeachment was pure politics, while Bush's investigation is non-political.

    Personally, I am trying to come to grips myself about each investigation, thinking beyond the politics of it and more towards the seriousness of it. For example I am wondering how harmful Clinton's crimes were to me personally and to America and comparing that to what the Bush administration is alleged to have done. And of course the key word is alleged. Anyway, I'm definitely interested in what you fellas have to say too. Thanks for keeping it civil!
  10. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by E.LesterBrown View Post
    I think it depends on your perspective. To me, its inconsistent for someone to think Clinton's impeachment was on the up and up, while Bush's is pure politics, just as its inconsistent for someone on the other side to think that Clinton's impeachment was pure politics, while Bush's investigation is non-political.

    Personally, I am trying to come to grips myself about each investigation, thinking beyond the politics of it and more towards the seriousness of it. For example I am wondering how harmful Clinton's crimes were to me personally and to America and comparing that to what the Bush administration is alleged to have done. And of course the key word is alleged. Anyway, I'm definitely interested in what you fellas have to say too. Thanks for keeping it civil!
    Well, in line with my earlier post. Whether you agree or disagree with the seriousness of Clinton's impeachment or whether they should have pursued that or not--it followed a legal process, and he was found not guilty, and that ended the matter (in Congress at least). Essentially--he was accused of something and had his day in court.

    The Bush administration has been accused of everything under the sun (a BIT of an exaggeration, but not much--I literally had someone tell me that their cousin dying of cancer was his fault), without any process. Its just an endless series of accusations. I'd say, let's get to this--if there are appropriate prosecutions, then go after them. If not, then let's end this.

    I'd like to think of course that these matters can be settled, but even with a court case, I'm doubting that they ever will be for some people.

    KAM
  11.    #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    The Bush administration has been accused of everything under the sun (a BIT of an exaggeration, but not much--I literally had someone tell me that their cousin dying of cancer was his fault), without any process. Its just an endless series of accusations. I'd say, let's get to this--if there are appropriate prosecutions, then go after them. If not, then let's end this.
    KAM
    Yes, that sounds very much like the early stages of the Clinton investigation, he was accused of everything under the sun, and then after a whole lot of investigation, time and money spent, all of what he was originally accused of was put aside and then the investigation turned into lying about a blow job.

    Personally, it they do investigate and it boiled down to something that trivial (in my opinion) on Bush, I would prefer that they throw the case out rather than pursue it further.
  12. 1thing2add's Avatar
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    #52  
    Just as it's been shown by many within these very threads, some have still not accepted the bottom-line regarding Clinton's affair and impeachment, rendering him not guilty.

    Given all the changes (new laws, standards, newly invasive government policies imposed internationally, torture, renditions, compromised constitutional rights, etc, etc), there is little doubt but that the 8 years of the Bush administration will be "discussed" for generations. I, too, would like to see a formal end to the cloud of suspicion, but when government officials thumb their noses at congressional subpoenas, it doesn't help, does it? If they have nothing to hide, they should be more cooperative without their attorneys having to negotiate a deal before they even begin to cooperate.
  13. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by E.LesterBrown View Post
    Yes, that sounds very much like the early stages of the Clinton investigation, he was accused of everything under the sun, and then after a whole lot of investigation, time and money spent, all of what he was originally accused of was put aside and then the investigation turned into lying about a blow job.

    Personally, it they do investigate and it boiled down to something that trivial (in my opinion) on Bush, I would prefer that they throw the case out rather than pursue it further.
    Well, I'm not sure that one can rightfully justify perjury or obstruction of justice because the thing being lied about it 'trivial.' As I'm sure you are aware many people end up getting prosecuted for the cover-up itself, rather than the thing they were trying to cover up.

    In my view, perjury is a serious charge, as is obstruction of justice.

    KAM
  14. #54  
    Clinton's crime: he lied and injured himself and all of us by showing that politicians cannot be trusted. His affairs: he injured our children by showing them that self value is not a value.

    Quote Originally Posted by E.LesterBrown View Post
    I think it depends on your perspective. To me, its inconsistent for someone to think Clinton's impeachment was on the up and up, while Bush's is pure politics, just as its inconsistent for someone on the other side to think that Clinton's impeachment was pure politics, while Bush's investigation is non-political.

    Personally, I am trying to come to grips myself about each investigation, thinking beyond the politics of it and more towards the seriousness of it. For example I am wondering how harmful Clinton's crimes were to me personally and to America and comparing that to what the Bush administration is alleged to have done. And of course the key word is alleged. Anyway, I'm definitely interested in what you fellas have to say too. Thanks for keeping it civil!
  15. groovy's Avatar
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    #55  
    “When all is said and done, reform means that American families will no longer have to spend too much of their hard-earned paychecks on health care and keep more money in their pockets to raise their children,” Nancy Pelosi, 9-23-09
    .
  16. #56  
    Skewed view of fairness? Not at all. If you are guilty, you pay the price. I just feel that Barry and team are playing a narrow line here - cause if they go after the past, then when they are the past, they are fair game.

    I really believe they are doing this to take the heat of of Barry and his various attempts to take over.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1thing2add View Post
    In your skewed view of fairness, do you believe Clinton is the first president to misrepresent the truth where his personal life was concerned? Because it was on the record, under the grand scheme of an unassociated Whitewater prosecution, that makes it different? If that had been Larry Craig, as president, you'd be blaming the "liberal" media!

    Hiding behind what's in the best interest of "the children" is exactly what tyrants do. That's simply low.
  17. #57  
    So screwed. It is all ready in our schools and at a level never like it is now.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1thing2add View Post
    Well, that was certainly low. Maybe a new low. Just not in the way you intended.



    Children's Health Fund

    Pelosi Remarks at Children's Health Fund Event
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