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  1. #721  
    I didnt miss it, I realize that but I want it changed and I want heath care reform to make it clear, and i do support jail and fine for the employers and action against our sleazbag dems and repubs who pander to them
  2. #722  
    Quote Originally Posted by mclldavidson View Post
    I didnt miss it, I realize that but I want it changed and I want heath care reform to make it clear,
    So you want health care legislation to stipulate illegal immigrants will be allowed to die at the doors of emergency rooms. Really? You would look at a dying individual and lock the door?
  3. #723  
    Stop making stuff up. If and only if it is a medical emergency imo think they should get the proper treatment. Then when they are better they should be deported and a bill sent to their country
  4. #724  
    Quote Originally Posted by mclldavidson View Post
    Stop making stuff up. If and only if it is a medical emergency imo think they should get the proper treatment. Then when they are better they should be deported and a bill sent to their country
    Not making stuff up, I'm asking questions.

    Could the argument not be made that fear of deportation would be the equivalent of locking the ER door and lead to people dying unnecessarily??

    And do you honestly believe billing the country of origin (I don't know, let's say Mexico) of a treated illegal immigrant will result in that country paying that hospital?
  5. #725  
    Don't care they shouldn't be here illegally to begin with. Personally responsibility is long gone in this country. And I doubt it(country paying the bill), be we have to take a stand and draw a line at sometime, it is ridiculous.

    This is all wishful thinking and will never happen with the sleaze we have in Washington


    Having said that we need to make immigration easier, especially for those seasonal workers who come here to work and then go home.
  6. #726  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    As far as Death Panels...I have never sensationalized that, or even referred to it in any particular way. I think the CONCEPT (not the rhetoric) is something to consider however, because government does and will decide how its money is spent. Why is this a mystery to you? TODAY Medicare (your preferred model) denies coverage regularly, and pays less. What is so hard about understanding that denial of coverage DOES impact your health, and your health impacts your life.
    Let's not pretend that the Government won't (because it already does) be making decisions that affect your life.



    I didn't say it was unimportant did I? No, I did not.
    Well, I actually think that people's lives are valuable, and prevention is important. However, claiming that it results in savings is not likely to be true. Obviously to the person it helps, it is worth the cost, but that's not the issue here in this. COST is the leading reason why government is pretending to reform healthcare, and thus it is important to consider the validity of their plans.

    Can you not even consider that this plan will make things WORSE? If your goal is to help people get better healthcare, you had better consider it as a possibility. What you advocate may in fact greatly damage the ability of people to get good healthcare. Will it? I am not sure, but it a possibility that I don't think we should ignore.

    KAM
    Your article sensationalized death panels. You just lauded the article.

    As far as I am concerned, cost is NOT the reason to reform health care. Providing health care to those who don't have it and can't get it is the reason to reform health care. It's just that the best way to pay for that is to control costs, which are excessive.

    I know exactly what kinds of things Medicare denies. They deny payment when things aren't appropriately documented in the chart; they deny payment if you don't submit the appropriate information. They rarely deny procedures, but they do pay for hospital care using preset payment (DRG's) which have been the most important cost control factor in the past fifty years. Medicare is less restrictive than any private insurer I deal with, and much easier to bill. If doctors feel like they just need more money from what they do, and they choose to not take Medicare assignment, so be it. They are not required to. And if a public plan pays less, doctors should have the same option to not accept it. But a whole lot will, simply because they are easier to deal with.

    Is there a chance that "health care" will be worse? If you define it as the health of the country, not a chance. That's why we are behind every other developed country in overall health care, no matter how you want to define it ("responsiveness" sounds good, but not if the overall care is inadequate...which it is). Is there a chance that people with elective procedures might have to wait a bit longer? Maybe...if we were talking about a single payor system. But we're not. There is no single payor system bill before congress. If the insurance companies are willing to compete, there will never be a single payor system. There isn't in Germany, Italy and many other countries with national health care. There are private insurance companies, and even though there are financial challenges in those countries because of health care problems, that doesn't mean there isn't a way to have coverage for all and still maintain private insurers. My guess is that they will NOT be able to compete, and if that's the case, so be it. There is no firm evidence that providing care to everyone in the country causes a worsening of care for the population. And for those of you that favor direct payment, I am sure you can get anything you want, as long as you are willing to pay for it, regardless of any national plan.
  7. #727  
    Quote Originally Posted by mclldavidson View Post
    Don't care they shouldn't be here illegally to begin with. Personally responsibility is long gone in this country. And I doubt it(country paying the bill), be we have to take a stand and draw a line at sometime, it is ridiculous.

    This is all wishful thinking and will never happen with the sleaze we have in Washington


    Having said that we need to make immigration easier, especially for those seasonal workers who come here to work and then go home.
    Ok, don't really want to delve into a topic on immigration legal or not in this thread, however, in relation to healthcare, I think we've come to the conclusion that immigration is a non-issue in the healthcare debate. It simply serves as an emotional trigger to excite the base which is opposed to any healthcare reform.
  8. #728  
    I think it is an issue when you have Obama and others saying no hc for illegals when they know for a fact they will be covered
  9. #729  
    Quote Originally Posted by mclldavidson View Post
    I think it is an issue when you have Obama and others saying no hc for illegals when they know for a fact they will be covered
    Joe Wilson was talking to you.
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  10. #730  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    Ok, don't really want to delve into a topic on immigration legal or not in this thread, however, in relation to healthcare, I think we've come to the conclusion that immigration is a non-issue in the healthcare debate. It simply serves as an emotional trigger to excite the base which is opposed to any healthcare reform.
    Exactly... or maybe some simply don't know and repeating what they heard at a tea party. Dunno.
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  11. #731  
    Quote Originally Posted by mclldavidson View Post
    ...[illegal immigrants] will be covered
    In what manner?
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    #732  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    Ok, don't really want to delve into a topic on immigration legal or not in this thread, however, in relation to healthcare, I think we've come to the conclusion that immigration is a non-issue in the healthcare debate. It simply serves as an emotional trigger to excite the base which is opposed to any healthcare reform.
    Its only a non-issue if we concede that illegal immigrants will always be here in the numbers that they are and we can't do anything about it except a) insure them, or b) give them emergency health care.

    What about the other option? Is that off the table completely?
  13.    #733  
    Wow, I agree with daThomas about something. Illegal aliens.

    If they think they will be deported if they try to get emergency care, they won't attempt to get it. If they have some highly contagious disease, do you want them just coughing around Home Depot or do you want it contained? I don't like having to pay for prisons either, but some things you gotta do. Once we enforce laws against those who hire them, supply and demand will make them leave.
  14. #734  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    Its only a non-issue if we concede that illegal immigrants will always be here in the numbers that they are and we can't do anything about it except a) insure them, or b) give them emergency health care.
    Answer will always likely be B.

    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    What about the other option? Is that off the table completely?
    Other option? Lowering the number of illegal immigrants? Not off the table but I didn't want to go off the topic of the thread.
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    #735  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    Other option? Lowering the number of illegal immigrants? Not off the table but I didn't want to go off the topic of the thread.
    I understand that but we can at least acknowledge that it is part of the debate. There are a lot of people who believe that as soon as health care reform is passed, the next item on the agenda will be amnesty. So, it factors into their doubts about the effectiveness/fairness or reform.
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    #736  
    Quote Originally Posted by Technologic 2 View Post
    Once we enforce laws against those who hire them, supply and demand will make them leave.
    That's a big if. Do we pass health care reform based on the fleeting hope that will happen?
  17. #737  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    I understand that but we can at least acknowledge that it is part of the debate. There are a lot of people who believe that as soon as health care reform is passed, the next item on the agenda will be amnesty. So, it factors into their doubts about the effectiveness/fairness or reform.
    I fail to see how the issue of illegal immigration amnesty is related to health care reform. What am I missing?
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    #738  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    I fail to see how the issue of illegal immigration amnesty is related to health care reform. What am I missing?
    Do you agree that the reform package will provide subsidies for health care insurance for some segments of the population?
  19. #739  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    Do you agree that the reform package will provide subsidies for health care insurance for some segments of the population?
    And by "population" you mean the population of the United States as in it's citizens?

    Seriously not trying to be coy, I'm just missing what you're stating.
  20. #740  
    It adds millions to the population that have not paid their way.

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