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  1. #701  
    The AARP and the American Medical Assn. announce their endorsements of the House healthcare bill.

    Reporting from Washington - As House Democrats prepare to vote Saturday on a sweeping bill to overhaul the nation's healthcare system, they have picked up an important endorsement today from the 40-million-member AARP, the nation's largest senior citizens group.

    The group, which has been pushing for a health overhaul for more than a year, had withheld a formal endorsement of any of the healthcare bills being developed by congressional Democrats.

    That endorsement was followed by an announcement at about 10 a.m. Pacific time from the American Medical Assn. in which the nation's largest doctors group voiced its support for the measure.

    AARP Executive Vice President Nancy LeaMond said today that the group saw the House Democratic bill as the most promising proposal.

    "We can say with confidence that it meets our priorities for protecting Medicare, providing more affordable insurance for 50- to 64-year-olds and reforming our healthcare system," she said at the group's Washington headquarters.

    The backing by the AARP and the American Medical Assn., as well as the American Cancer Society Cancer Action Network, which announced its endorsement Tuesday, counters mounting opposition among employer groups who are stepping up their advertising campaign against the bill.

    The AMA's support for the House bill comes ahead of a critical policymaking meeting of its House of Delegates in Houston that begins Saturday. The organization is being asked by some constituencies, at the eleventh hour, to back away from supporting healthcare reform.

    "These bills go far beyond what is necessary to fix what is broken with our healthcare system, and they grant the federal government considerable new powers and authority, which could ultimately amount to a complete government takeover of healthcare, and which is anathema to doctors and patients," reads a resolution introduced by the American Assn. of Neurological Surgeons, the American Society of General Surgeons and the American Academy of Facial Plastic and Reconstructive Surgery. The resolution was also supported by AMA delegations from Georgia and Washington, D.C.

    The AMA, which represents a quarter of a million physicians, has kept an open mind to the Obama administration's efforts, particularly since the president took the unusual step of addressing the group at its annual meeting in June in Chicago.

    The AMA believes the House bill backs goals supported by the majority of its members because doctors will have a choice on whether to participate in the so-called public option. In addition, the AMA has said the rates paid to doctors are going to be better than those they receive from the Medicare health insurance program for the elderly, which is also key to the group's support.

    But the AMA has been regularly criticized by doctors across the country and conservative talk shows. A source close to the AMA said its internal polling has shown doctors to be closely divided on a public option and healthcare reform proposed by Democrats, but 20% or more of doctors across the country also are undecided on what to support.

    All I can say is "w00t!"

  2.    #702  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    The AARP and the American Medical Assn. announce their endorsements of the House healthcare bill.

    All I can say is "w00t!"

    Big DUH! Do you know how much Supplemental Insurance AARP will sell when this passes? I just might have to get my license!
  3. #703  
    Quote Originally Posted by Technologic 2 View Post
    Big DUH!
    Seriously?
  4.    #704  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    Seriously?
    Yes, seriously. Did you not expect AARP to endorse the program? Insurance Companies are also for it as long as people are required to buy insurance and they don't get cut out of it. They are willing to cover pre-existing conditions as long as the penalty for not being insured is high enough to force people to get coverage. They only started to back down once they saw a lot of loopholes in these penalties.
  5. #705  
    Quote Originally Posted by Technologic 2 View Post
    Big DUH! Do you know how much Supplemental Insurance AARP will sell when this passes? I just might have to get my license!
    Do YOU know what a risk it is for them to support any program, given that their primary constituents already have health care coverage and are largely hesitant to support any change? They think it is best for the country. Good for them.
  6. Micael's Avatar
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    #706  
    it's too expensive, regardless of the merits.... we need a fresh look at this. why don't we at least debate the republican's approach? take it in steps, fix things the right way, a bit at a time? why the damn secrecy and rush?
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  7. groovy's Avatar
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    #707  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    it's too expensive, regardless of the merits.... we need a fresh look at this. why don't we at least debate the republican's approach? take it in steps, fix things the right way, a bit at a time? why the damn secrecy and rush?
    Obstructionist!
  8. #708  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    it's too expensive, regardless of the merits.... we need a fresh look at this. why don't we at least debate the republican's approach? take it in steps, fix things the right way, a bit at a time? why the damn secrecy and rush?
    There's no secrecy. The plan released by the republicans doesn't address the 3 most important issues. As has been properly stated by someone, in D.C. delay and kicking the can down the road is an attempt to kill things.

    Again, things are being fixed the right way. I'm sorry you're allowing the lens of partisanship to obscure that for you.

  9. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #709  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    Yes, you are society and it's your responsibility to deal with it. You are nothing but fearmongerers, claiming that the big bad government is going to take your twinkies away. What crap. Try being just a little bit realistic and not quite so blatantly paranoid.
    Realistic...yes. This coming from the guy who has ZERO care for how any of this is going to be paid for.

    You don't even understand the concept of individual liberty. We are not society, we are individuals that make up a society, and are not slaves to it.

    KAM
  10. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #710  
    YaY! Let's hear three cheers for government buying off more organizations to add to their crony list! I wonder what taxpayer funded prizes they promised them.

    KAM
  11. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #711  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    Like most of your opinion pieces that you are so enamored with from RCP, this is no exception. No data. Fearmongering (even brought back the death panel concept....that decision will be taken out of the hands of the elderly and their families. What a load of crap. Show me where? I thought you were beyond that kind of sensationalism). There is not one piece of hard information in that article that you seem to savor so much. And just what are the horrible consequences of not having a CT scanner on every corner? Are they worse than the cost consequences of HAVING one on every corner? Bunk.
    And again--anything that disagrees with you, is "bunk." Wow, I never thought posting an article would get anyone so upset. The point is--this article brings up relevant issues that should be considered rather than throwing all concerns aside and blundering forward to meet a political agenda, under the guise of helping people.

    As far as Death Panels...I have never sensationalized that, or even referred to it in any particular way. I think the CONCEPT (not the rhetoric) is something to consider however, because government does and will decide how its money is spent. Why is this a mystery to you? TODAY Medicare (your preferred model) denies coverage regularly, and pays less. What is so hard about understanding that denial of coverage DOES impact your health, and your health impacts your life.
    Let's not pretend that the Government won't (because it already does) be making decisions that affect your life.

    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    It appears you don't agree with this, but savings is not the most important thing to me. What is important is whether or not counseling efforts are effective at reducing morbidity. While counseling is not as effective as antibiotics in some infections, it does work. It works in counseling patients with high lipids, in cigarette cessation, and there are things that have shown no responsiveness to counseling such as seat belt use. However, it is understood that some people do respond to these counseling efforts. The US Preventive Service Task Force states the following about obesity:

    So while to you something that shows benefit in terms of health outcomes, which you agree is the case, is unimportant unless it shows significant savings. Well, the data on all this is very hard to collect and interpret....but it doesn't make any difference to me. And yes, neither is the cost. You may want to put a price on adequate health care for all, but I won't. No matter what it costs, it's worth it.
    I didn't say it was unimportant did I? No, I did not.
    Well, I actually think that people's lives are valuable, and prevention is important. However, claiming that it results in savings is not likely to be true. Obviously to the person it helps, it is worth the cost, but that's not the issue here in this. COST is the leading reason why government is pretending to reform healthcare, and thus it is important to consider the validity of their plans.

    Your continued statements about not caring about the cost are...well, not to be insulting, but ignorant. You simply cannot ignore them and pretend the problems associated with them will go away. It doesn't matter if you think that any cost is worth it or not, if you can't pay for it. What will it take to get through to you? You cannot pretend that it will just work out.

    Let's take a near-worst case scenario (and I'm not predicting this, just trying to illustrate the issue by making it abundantly clear). If this breaks the USA and destroys our economy causing a Depression, in which there is high unemployment and therefore even less money to pay for any healthcare, do you accomplish what you want? Do people get healthcare when there is a literal inability to pay for it? That's not an impossibility.

    Let me be even more stark--what happens if the economic impact is such that we've got 25% unemployment and massive numbers of people can't pay for food, let alone healthcare. Does that get you what you want?

    Can you afford to cling to this head-in-the-sand mentality you insist upon KNOWING that the economic impacts of unrestrained spending CAN (and in other places have) led to deep economic ruin--at which point healthcare will be much WORSE?

    Can you not even consider that this plan will make things WORSE? If your goal is to help people get better healthcare, you had better consider it as a possibility. What you advocate may in fact greatly damage the ability of people to get good healthcare. Will it? I am not sure, but it a possibility that I don't think we should ignore.

    KAM
  12. #712  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    I wonder what taxpayer funded prizes they promised them.

    KAM
    Um, I think that would be health care.
  13. #713  
    Whatever passes, no heathcare for illegal crimmigrants
  14. Micael's Avatar
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    #714  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    YaY! Let's hear three cheers for government buying off more organizations to add to their crony list! I wonder what taxpayer funded prizes they promised them.

    KAM
    This is no recent shift or move. AARP has always been a reliable and major shill for the democratic party... just like the unions, trial lawyers, and education.....

    The only thing "decided" recently was when the best moment would be to send out the press release.

    Wish there was an alternative to AARP... I want my hotel discounts, dagnabit!
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  15. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #715  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    There's no secrecy. The plan released by the republicans doesn't address the 3 most important issues. As has been properly stated by someone, in D.C. delay and kicking the can down the road is an attempt to kill things.

    Again, things are being fixed the right way. I'm sorry you're allowing the lens of partisanship to obscure that for you.

    Yes, please kill this effort, and save our economy from yet another unsustainable economic burden. Please kill this fantasy, free lunch nonsense.

    NOW, this is the right way? What about the previously unmerged versions? Were those NOT the right fixes? What about the Senate versions? What about the Conference committee version-to be? Are those going to be the right fixes too? I'm asking you what product of your Statist congress wouldn't be right for you?

    What makes you sure they are being fixed the right way? How do you know what the result will be? How do you know these are the best solutions?
    Is your view partisan fueled trust or is it objective, rational analysis? Don't answer that.

    Everyone else is a partisan, and a fear monger, but you and those who agree with you...well, they are just reasonable people right? No partisanship coming from the Democrats in Congress at all right? They're just there to help everyone. Do you imagine they also **** rainbows and save kittens everyday at lunchtime?

    KAM
  16. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #716  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    Um, I think that would be health care.
    The AMA (doctors) and AARP (elderly) need government healthcare?

    Aren't these the people who DON'T need it, because they've already got it?

    KAM
  17. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #717  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    This is no recent shift or move. AARP has always been a reliable and major shill for the democratic party... just like the unions, trial lawyers, and education.....

    The only thing "decided" recently was when the best moment would be to send out the press release.

    Wish there was an alternative to AARP... I want my hotel discounts, dagnabit!
    Well, true--AARP has always leaned that way. Now, we just know how owned they are.

    I heard there was an alternate to AARP--smaller.

    KAM
  18. #718  
    Quote Originally Posted by mclldavidson View Post
    Whatever passes, no heathcare for illegal crimmigrants
    Seriously, even if the resulting legislation gave illegal immigrants gold plated health care, it's such a tiny part of the whole thing. And again I'll point out that a hospital is legally required to treat someone with an acute condition.

    And, yet again, I'll point out that the simple solution to illegal immigration is to put their employers in jail. But that is a topic for another thread.
  19. #719  
    I don't care if it is .0000000001%, no heathcare or social services for illegal crimmigrants.. And bill their country of origin for the heathcare
  20. #720  
    Quote Originally Posted by mclldavidson View Post
    I don't care if it is .0000000001%, no heathcare or social services for illegal crimmigrants.. And bill their country of origin for the heathcare
    Did you miss my point? You are currently paying for health care for illegal immigrants. And you will continue to no matter what form this healthcare legislation takes. Hospitals are required by law to treat people that present with acute conditions. That cost is passed on to everyone else. If you are so concerned with illegal immigrants I encourage you to support jailing their employers.

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