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  1. #621  
    Quote Originally Posted by allthewayhome View Post
    lol. yes, we do understand OBAMA'S RISE TO POWER AND HIS BRILLIANCE. I majored in politics and volunteer for democrats. I know exactly what he did to get where he is. And other than marketing, chicago politics and a great schtick complete with his "AMAZING SPEECHES", NOT MUCH). He was about as qualified as george W.

    Yes, unfortunately, branding, marketing, propaganda, logos and slogans win here. But if you don't think a large percentage of the black people in the primary voted for him because he's black after 95% of them went for him in the primary, you are living in la-la land. And yes, plenty of white people thought it was great that he was mr. international, or just plain black.

    yes, i understand statistics and voting. And as YOU well know, take away obama's caucuses, like IA (and we all know, they didn't VOTE, they caucused, which measures the MOOD of voters, hence why a guy with superb branding and marketing, hype and a choreographed grassroots campaign wins, yes, brilliant politician, he can thank Axelrod for his success, among others), then he loses. (And soon he'll be taking credit for a healthcare plan that he can't even be bothered to work on).

    Ah heck, let's give the man a peace prize. oh wait...

    But wait, i'm going to edit because i don't think that in general his win or appeal was soley because he is black, as much as the OP was saying regarding the issue. His campaign was and his personality is, such great BS, that people bought it hook line and sinker, and that is why he got where he is. It just so happens his being black got him just enough of the votes he needed to surpass clinton in the primaries. VA, NC, SC, etc. He would have been SOL had it not been for those states voting the way they did. So technically, yes, the OP of the argument is actually correct in a way, he would not have won the primary were he not black, and had he not won the primary, his *** wouldn't be the prezypoo right now.
    If that is what you got out of Iowa, you need to do some more reading and research. But I doubt if you will admit your blazing failure of thinking.

    You sound a bit angry.

    Run along, now.... lol
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  2. #622  
    Quote Originally Posted by theog View Post
    If that is what you got out of Iowa, you need to do some more reading and research. But I doubt if you will admit your blazing failure of thinking.

    You sound a bit angry.

    Run along, now.... lol
    You already posted that Obama is brilliant and that he won IA. That's deep. Take that anyone who speaks of any other factors to Obama's win! lol.

    And just in case you were confused, the "NOT MUCH", refers to actual work he's ever done or any real reason...oh, lol, i won't get into that here.
    Last edited by allthewayhome; 11/01/2009 at 05:55 PM.
  3. #623  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    As one of those that were laid off last week (due to an incompetently run family business), yes please.
    Dude, sorry to hear that. Good luck with the search. Although the opportunity to get to the gym everyday does sound nice.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  4. #624  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof View Post
    Dude, sorry to hear that. Good luck with the search. Although the opportunity to get to the gym everyday does sound nice.
    Appreciated. Thanks Woof.
  5.    #625  
    I know how we can save a lot on Prescription Drugs! I get emails all the time letting me know they have Low prices on mEdz, Vi@Gra, L*xaPr& etc.. Anybody want me to forward their email to them?
  6. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #626  
    Quote Originally Posted by theog View Post
    Health care is huge... nothing attached to it is "simple." That is my issue... there is not a simple solution or a quick fix to help.
    I have to disagree. A lot of things are really simple, if there are people with enough courage to be honest (and politicians generally lack those traits). Eliminating fraud IS simple--it might be extensive, but it isn't rocket science.

    Of course, if it ISN'T simple, is a massive expansion of these systems likely to create more or less fraud? If they aren't able to handle smaller programs, what makes anyone think they can handle larger ones without additional waste?

    See, they are promising a lot of things in order to fool people into going along with it and then after it is too late to change they will just say "oops" sorry--it is the other party's fault.

    What I'm saying is that we as citizens should hold these Politicians to much tighter standards and stop buying into their never-fulfilled promises. How many more chances are we going to give them to burn our tax dollars, while destroying the economy?

    KAM
  7. #627  
    I think reform is needed, I just don't trust the incompetent clowns in Washington to come up with a good solution, and I honestly don't see how anyone could have faith in them to do so. Republicans and Dems alike are all worthless
  8. Micael's Avatar
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    #628  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    We were sacrificed to save money to continue to pay family members' salaries whose jobs involve showing up half the time and playing solitaire on their computers.

    **OK, rant over**

    Right now I'll sniff around to see what's out there, do some studying I've had to put off, and get to the gym every day.
    Doesn't sound that different than working for a non-family run business. That's the same class of people in "normal" businesses that show up half the time to play solitaire and collect a paycheck. Somehow they always seem to survive, and those that busted **** underneath them get the boot.

    I must be missing something.... it's almost as if they survive because they've survived for so long....

    Good luck, and here's to hoping you get twice as good a job as that one! And soon! I was laid off last Oct, and it was Apr before I got a new gig.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  9. Micael's Avatar
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    #629  
    Quote Originally Posted by mclldavidson View Post
    I think reform is needed, I just don't trust the incompetent clowns in Washington to come up with a good solution, and I honestly don't see how anyone could have faith in them to do so. Republicans and Dems alike are all worthless
    It will take the government to implement any reform, I suppose. But that should be the extent of their involvement. Some of the stuff in the latest bill are just stupid and has no business being in there... like nutrition signage at vending machines?!@?!
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  10. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #630  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    It will take the government to implement any reform, I suppose. But that should be the extent of their involvement. Some of the stuff in the latest bill are just stupid and has no business being in there... like nutrition signage at vending machines?!@?!
    The biggest reform Government can take in any field is to stop causing harm. The Government has a role--as a check and balance to insure equal treatment under laws designed to prevent things such as fraud.

    If they must involve themselves with paying for healthcare it shouldn't be in the form of an indirect payer system, which places them as a wedge between healthcare providers and patients. Unfortunately, the Government and Health Insurance both are indirect payer systems, which I believe is a major problem, which has destroyed Free market controls.

    Nutrition Signage? I wonder how many things in that bill are attempts to control and "nudge" people into behavior that they should be responsible for. How many people won't be covered, or how many more people will be taxed, because of the Government's determined effort to act as our nannies?

    This entire debate is taking place within the very flawed mindset that Government is responsible or has the power to control individual choice, and they do not. The excuse is always "Well we pay for it, so we have a say" which is an amazing liberty-crushing bait and switch. It's what they are doing with banks and what they seek to do with healthcare.

    I hope all those advocates of "reform" realize that their precious "Choice" is on the block here. The government doesn't give out freebees--you always pay for it one way or another, with your money or liberty or both (in this case both).

    You want a "pay Czar" for your personal life--what you eat, drink, own, drive? You want the government to hold the hammer of your healthcare over you to control your behavior? Keep going the direction of government taking more and more of your life over, and see how you like it. If anyone wants to call that "fear mongering"--good, anyone who values their personal liberty should be VERY scared of government with the intent that ours now has.

    Government should have a clear message sent to them--Clean up your own messes, and stop using your failures as an excuse to foist more of your failure upon the public. Forward into more failure is not Progress and it sure as heck isn't reform. I've had enough. I want a change in Washington, not a massive expansion of an already horrible record of failure.

    Oh yes--I forgot. Here's a Fresh Poll from a Professional Source that disagrees with those who keep on insisting that people want this "reform."
    http://www.rasmussenreports.com/publ...th_care_reform


    KAM
    Last edited by KAM1138; 11/02/2009 at 11:30 AM. Reason: Added link
  11. Micael's Avatar
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    #631  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    Nutrition Signage? I wonder how many things in that bill are attempts to control and "nudge" people into behavior that they should be responsible for.
    Kinda flies in the face of concepts such as "self-determination", don't it?
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  12. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #632  
    Hello Everyone,

    Here's another article talking about the Costs of Healthcare, and the games that politicians are playing--at our expense, while claiming to help us.

    RealClearPolitics - The "Costs" of Medical Care

    KAM
  13. #633  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Kinda flies in the face of concepts such as "self-determination", don't it?
    Not that I really care, but do you feel that taxing cigarettes at a high level to help pay for tobacco-related diseases is a bad thing? Or are you willing to continue to subsidize smoking through your higher (private) insurance premiums or through taxes for those covered by Medicare and Medicaid?
  14. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #634  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    Not that I really care, but do you feel that taxing cigarettes at a high level to help pay for tobacco-related diseases is a bad thing? Or are you willing to continue to subsidize smoking through your higher (private) insurance premiums or through taxes for those covered by Medicare and Medicaid?
    I know this is addressed to Micael, but I think this is important.

    This misidentifies the problem completely. The problem isn't whether or not cigarette smokers should be taxed more to relieve others from paying for their stupid habits, it is that we are paying for them in the first place.

    No, the answer is to let these ***** smokers pay for their own health coverage, instead of passing along the costs to those of us who make better decisions. Insurance, Medicare, Medicaid all ENABLE the robbery of the people who don't do stupid things.

    Let people be responsible for their own actions, and the problem fixes itself. Why should anyone else be responsible (and financially damaged) by someone else's poor decisions? Who gave government the power to make me responsible for someone else's free choice?

    Classic "fixing" a problem by creating another problem mentality that our Government is dedicated to.

    No, I'm not willing to subsidize smokers, so stop taking my money to pay for idiots who decide to kill themselves. Stop endangering my ability to keep my family healthy so a politician can buy votes with my (and others) money pandering to his ***** supporters by giving them a "free lunch."

    I don't want anyone to die, but if they are determined to kill themselves by smoking their way into the grave--then I'm sure as heck not responsible to pay for it, period. Yet, this is exactly what these various government and insurance indirect payer schemes do. Its also why none of these "reforms" will work--its just repeating the same mistakes on a larger scale and hoping that somehow the result is different.

    KAM
  15. Micael's Avatar
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    #635  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    Not that I really care, but do you feel that taxing cigarettes at a high level to help pay for tobacco-related diseases is a bad thing? Or are you willing to continue to subsidize smoking through your higher (private) insurance premiums or through taxes for those covered by Medicare and Medicaid?
    Do you think we should tax skydivers? People who bungy jump? Motorcross riders? People with skateboards?

    Maybe a huge tax levied on all sporting goods that may cause injuries?

    It's a silly argument. We should all be responsible for our own choices. You should not dictate to me how I live my life. So, these poor decisions costs us more. Fine. It's the price we all pay to live in a place where we have freedom and choice.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  16. Micael's Avatar
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    #636  
    I'm pretty excited that I get to cast my vote today in a nationally tracked race for a house seat, District-23 of New York. Guess who I've voting for! lol
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  17. Micael's Avatar
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    #637  
    House GOP pens 230-page health bill draft
    By ERICA WERNER (AP) 1 hour ago

    WASHINGTON

    After months spent criticizing Democrats' health overhaul plans, House Republicans have produced a draft proposal of their own. It's much shorter and focuses on bringing down costs rather than extending coverage to nearly all Americans.

    A 230-page draft was obtained Tuesday by The Associated Press. A spokeswoman for Minority Leader John Boehner, R-Ohio, said changes were still being made before the bill would be finalized in time to offer as an alternative when Democrats begin floor debate on their bill, possibly at the end of this week.

    The bill leaves out a number of the key features of the Democrats' 1,990-page legislation, such as new requirements for employers to insure their employees and for nearly all Americans to purchase insurance. It also doesn't block insurers from denying coverage to people with pre-existing health conditions, as Democrats would do.

    Instead, the Republican plan increases incentives for people to use health savings accounts, caps non-economic jury awards in medical malpractice cases at $250,000, provides various incentives to states with the aim of driving down premium costs and allows health insurance to be sold across state lines.

    "As Leader Boehner has made clear, our proposal will focus on the No. 1 concern of the American people reducing health care costs, and we do it at a price tag our nation can afford," said spokeswoman Antonia Ferrier, though Republicans have not said how much their bill would cost.

    "Our proposal will help struggling middle-class families and small businesses by increasing access to affordable, high-quality health care," Ferrier said.

    Democrats immediately dismissed the Republican plan as insubstantial.

    The GOP alternative "does little to provide security and stability to all Americans, doesn't provide insurance availability for all Americans, does little to expand access to coverage," House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer, D-Md., told reporters.

    "Ours is vastly superior and we think the American public will think that," Hoyer said.

    The GOP draft bill obtained by The AP was dated Monday.

    House Democrats, meanwhile, were working overtime to put the finishing touches on their 10-year, $1.2 trillion bill, which they released last week. Leaders were trying to resolve lingering concerns over language to bar federal funding of abortions and ensure that illegal immigrants don't receive government health benefits.

    The Republican bill includes a permanent ban on any federal funding for abortions except in cases of rape, incest or threat to the life of the mother, stronger language than the Democratic bill,

    Hoyer predicted Tuesday that Democrats would vote within the week to pass President Barack Obama's historic health care remake.

    "I'm confident of prevailing and I'm confident of prevailing before Veterans Day" next Wednesday, Nov. 11, Hoyer told reporters. "I am confident that we are going to pass this bill."

    Across the Capitol, senators are waiting to see the final language and price tag on a health bill that Majority Leader Harry Reid and a few other top officials wrote in secret. It's not clear when those details will be available and Reid, D-Nev., may not be able to begin debate on the issue until the week before Thanksgiving.

    Associated Press Writer Andrew Taylor contributed to this report.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  18. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #638  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    I'm pretty excited that I get to cast my vote today in a nationally tracked race for a house seat, District-23 of New York. Guess who I've voting for! lol
    You are still voting for Dede right, because she's still officially the Republican Candidate, and you are just a shill for Republicans right?

    KAM
  19. #639  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Do you think we should tax skydivers? People who bungy jump? Motorcross riders? People with skateboards?

    Maybe a huge tax levied on all sporting goods that may cause injuries?

    It's a silly argument. We should all be responsible for our own choices. You should not dictate to me how I live my life. So, these poor decisions costs us more. Fine. It's the price we all pay to live in a place where we have freedom and choice.
    No. I think we should tax everyone and use that money to provide care for everyone, but that's no surprise.

    It must sound very easy to you to look someone in the eye and say "I'm sorry. You chose to smoke, so you're not going to get any care that costs more than $X dollars, because that's all you have. You can go home with your family and die. You are responsible for your own choices. Don't call us, we'll call you."

    Clueless.
  20. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #640  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    No. I think we should tax everyone and use that money to provide care for everyone, but that's no surprise.

    It must sound very easy to you to look someone in the eye and say "I'm sorry. You chose to smoke, so you're not going to get any care that costs more than $X dollars, because that's all you have. You can go home with your family and die. You are responsible for your own choices. Don't call us, we'll call you."

    Clueless.
    Yes, because that's the only way you can ever pay for something--with cash on hand. We buy EVERYTHING on Credit, but for some reason you can't conceive of such an arrangement for Healthcare costs? Not likely, you aren't stupid.

    But you are correct--people ARE responsible for their own choices.

    KAM

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