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  1. #421  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1thing2add View Post
    Isn't is obvious that obstructionists would prefer that people like Dawn Smith get what she has coming?! How recklessly irresponsible of her to expect the care she has paid for and waited on from CIGNA for over 2 years?

    This way she can go down in flames, fighting like a proud American! That's the system we need to keep!
    obstructionists. Isn't that a way of using a label to color people in a certain light? Sorta like calling people pro choice instead os anti life, or pro life instead of anti choice. I like that. Must think of a clever tag for you.
    Dawn's story is indeed sad. I don't think anyone would deny that. But it callas for insurance reform and a call to a lawyer, not govt run healthcare.
  2. #422  
    Has anyone given this plan a thought



    frankly it gets my vote

    (it is NOT a rick roll) in-case your scared to look.
    also, sorry if i posted it before, i just feel very strongly about this.
    There are four lights.
  3. #423  
    Quote Originally Posted by morrison0880 View Post
    daThomas, I am not for letting people die in the streets. What I am for is people taking responsibility for their own lives, instead of always going around with their hands out. Although davidra doesn't believe so, people DO need to sacrifice for the things they want in life, and healthcare is no different. Why do we have to pay for food? It is much more important to our daily lives than a doctor's visit, wouldn't you say? Yet we have to pay for it, which means sacrificing that money for a necessity instead of using it for something you would otherwise spend it on. It's a fact of life.
    Healthcare is expensive. Are some costs out of control? Yes they are. But do you really think the gov't coming in is going to make things better? What have they done to make you think they won't mess it up even more than it is now. The USPS, the war, the $10 trillion deficit. If they were a company, they would've been out of business long ago, or at the very least the guys in charge would be fired for stealing from the American public. So in the end, no, I am not in favor of giving my money to an inept governmental body so they can give it to someone who could've bought their own private health insurance, but didn't want to give up, to use 1think's example, their ipod, since that would cramp their lifestyle.
    Before you have your jello, a few comments. So you don't want them to die in the streets. How do you want to take care of them? You know, actual plans instead of prosyletizing. Solutions, you know? None? Ok, enjoy your jello.

    BTW, we do provide food stamps. And you know what? Food costs a lot less than health care. In fact, one hospitalization could easily burn up a year's worth of food budget. Responsibility does not have anything to do with the vast majority of illness.

    And yes, clearly you favor giving your money to an inept for-profit insurance company that denies more services than Medicare.
  4. #424  
    Quote Originally Posted by windzilla View Post
    Has anyone given this plan a thought

    [url= - Playing Doctor on YouTube: Viral Video Film School[/url]

    frankly it gets my vote

    (it is NOT a rick roll) in-case your scared to look.
    also, sorry if i posted it before, i just feel very strongly about this.
    hahaha! 'i think most living things can be killed by hydrochloric acid.' bam! Debate over. I'm all for this. Of course, then we'll need govt subsidized internet access for those who can't affird it, a plan I srtongly oppose.
  5. #425  
    Quote Originally Posted by morrison0880 View Post
    hahaha! 'i think most living things can be killed by hydrochloric acid.' bam! Debate over. I'm all for this. Of course, then we'll need govt subsidized internet access for those who can't affird it, a plan I srtongly oppose.
    so what, no libraries?

    what would ben think?
  6. #426  
    Quote Originally Posted by windzilla View Post
    so what, no libraries?

    what would ben think?
    Libraries are socialist institutions of mind control, offering up only the books the govt approves of.
    as for insurance reform, 1thing, I don't know. I'll let someone with more knowledge on the subject come up with a good plan. Or better yet, why don't you play devil's advocate and let me know what you think will work. All I know is that I done want a govt run program. Just my personal feelings, take them as you may (and I know how you take them.)
    time to walk the dog. Come on Miller! Lets go get you some govt subsidized vet care!
  7.    #427  
    Just curious, how many people on this forum are for using tax dollars (weighted heavily on the rich) to provide:

    Free Healthcare for all?
    Free Dental Care for all?
    Free Basic Healthy Food for all?
    Free Basic Housing for all?
    Free Childcare so you can work?
    Free Transportation so you can get to that job?

    Of course if you want more than basic, you could provide for yourself.
    If all this were available, if you had an income over $10,000.00/yr, would you be willing to pay as much as 70-80% of your income for this security?

    Do you believe in the philosophy: "The government should tax you based on your ability to pay and give it to others based on their needs."

    Anyone willing to state where they stand?
  8. #428  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Wow. I hope you feel better. You made a lot of accusations about me that aren't true. You've done a good job of painting me (with color even!) in just the right way so that you can then take me apart. And you pulled it all into one big package. Healthcare, Bush, Iraq, Columbia, how I feel, what I think, how wrong I am.....

    Tell you what, from now on I'm going to let you post my messages for me. You've got me figured out so well. It will save me a lot of effort, and you'll be able to win every argument you have with yourself.
    you are some piece of work, lol, no accusations, no pulling it all together.. simple questions. the red in the first paragraph was for emphasis only. Yes the use of red for your name was to get your attention. Not to accuse or make statements of fact. Instead of trying to deflect, try answering the very simple questions.

    Why is it all right for young men and women to go and die for their country, but its not all right for universal health care. Your govt, not you or your fellow countrymen and women decided to spend trillions on wars. Run up a deficit not seen since the good old days of the Cold War. Do I agree with Iraq or Afghanistan, no. I have family and friends over in Afghanistan. All military. Yes, every time a Canadian comes home, I pay my respects, as the hearses carrying their coffins drive right by my home town.

    Just answer the question. Why is it ok to die for your country in a war your small (republican) govt president started, but its not ok for the same people to get universal health care at the hands of what you define as big govt (democrat). Seems to me universal heath care, is far cheaper then even a week fighting either of those damn wars. In fact I dare say, if even one American dies fighting one of those little wars, the price is too damned high. Perhaps you are too young to remember Vietnam, perhaps not. I have no idea. The Afghan war, is Vietnam all over again, at least thats what I see and read. Just my opinion.
  9. #429  
    Quote Originally Posted by morrison0880 View Post
    I am not using the war in Iraq as an example in any of my posts, nor have I expressed an opinion on the matter either way. If you want my opinion, I would say that it was a mistake, and our resources are being aimed at the wrong targets. Afghanistan, in my opinion, is much more justified, but again, I am not trying to use either as a support for my opinion on healthcare.
    Regardless if the war was occuring or not, I am against any gov't option in healthcare. Yes, there should be some sort of reform to keep costs down. What that reform is, I unfortunately cannot say, as I am not an economist. However, I am not, like davidra and 1thing want to portray me as, an *****. I do not brag about my education, because it is not necessary to back my opinions up, and I don't feel the need to make sure everyone knows I got my smarts. I want the gov't as far away from my life as possible. Their involvement with the banks and the auto industry is already too close for comfort. I was against the patriot act, which was passed much like this reform is trying to be passes. Using fear. Yes 1think, both sides use the same tactics. They just present them differently.
    daThomas, I am not for letting people die in the streets. What I am for is people taking responsibility for their own lives, instead of always going around with their hands out. Although davidra doesn't believe so, people DO need to sacrifice for the things they want in life, and healthcare is no different. Why do we have to pay for food? It is much more important to our daily lives than a doctor's visit, wouldn't you say? Yet we have to pay for it, which means sacrificing that money for a necessity instead of using it for something you would otherwise spend it on. It's a fact of life.
    Healthcare is expensive. Are some costs out of control? Yes they are. But do you really think the gov't coming in is going to make things better? What have they done to make you think they won't mess it up even more than it is now. The USPS, the war, the $10 trillion deficit. If they were a company, they would've been out of business long ago, or at the very least the guys in charge would be fired for stealing from the American public. So in the end, no, I am not in favor of giving my money to an inept governmental body so they can give it to someone who could've bought their own private health insurance, but didn't want to give up, to use 1think's example, their ipod, since that would cramp their lifestyle.
    hi there, you say you have a problem giving your money to an inept govt body to run health care, but you give your money to the same inept govt body to fight a war.. K im really confused now..
  10. #430  
    Quote Originally Posted by morrison0880 View Post
    Libraries are socialist institutions of mind control, offering up only the books the govt approves of.
    as for insurance reform, 1thing, I don't know. I'll let someone with more knowledge on the subject come up with a good plan. Or better yet, why don't you play devil's advocate and let me know what you think will work. All I know is that I done want a govt run program. Just my personal feelings, take them as you may (and I know how you take them.)
    time to walk the dog. Come on Miller! Lets go get you some govt subsidized vet care!

    I haven't exposed my thoughts on the matter in this forum, nor really reacted to anyone here with anything other than lighthearted jest. (things like fed-ex and sweating)

    But i'll bite, can you tell me, how do I take your personal feelings?
    There are four lights.
  11. #431  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1thing2add View Post
    Mind pointing to the Congressional proposal under consideration where these delusions materialize? Who authored it? Who co-sponsored it? Thanks!
    Why can't you just give your opinion? No one is suggesting there are any proposals on the table. Tech is just trying to establish where you stand. Why are you such a wimp? Hell you probably cant answer either of those questions either.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  12.    #432  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1thing2add View Post
    Answer Tech's irrational, politically-charged premise? Why? Besides, continual insults from a circus clown make me smile.
    Politically charged? Wrong - I am not happy with either party
    Irrational? No, these questions tell a lot - I would just like everyone to know how extreme some peoples views are or how uncompassionate some peoples views are.

    Do you have a fear of putting your views out their? Come on, entertain the clown. I'll answer if you do!
  13. #433  
    I give my tax dollars for welfare programs in this state and this country.
  14.    #434  
    Quote Originally Posted by Technologic 2 View Post
    Technologic asked a simple question
    Just curious, how many people on this forum are for using tax dollars (weighted heavily on the rich) to provide:

    Free Healthcare for all?
    Free Dental Care for all?
    Free Basic Healthy Food for all?
    Free Basic Housing for all?
    Free Childcare so you can work?
    Free Transportation so you can get to that job?

    Of course if you want more than basic, you could provide for yourself.
    If all this were available, if you had an income over $10,000.00/yr, would you be willing to pay as much as 70-80% of your income for this security?

    Do you believe in the philosophy: "The government should tax you based on your ability to pay and give it to others based on their needs."

    Anyone willing to state where they stand?
    1thing2add had lots2add

    Quote Originally Posted by 1thing2add View Post
    Mind pointing to the Congressional proposal under consideration where these delusions materialize? Who authored it? Who co-sponsored it? Thanks!
    Quote Originally Posted by 1thing2add View Post
    Answer Tech's irrational, politically-charged premise? Why? Besides, continual insults from a circus clown make me smile.
    Quote Originally Posted by 1thing2add View Post
    Answered another way, who here has advocated these absolutist values? Name names, by all means. However, please supply the corroborating statements of others to support any claims you make.
    Have you ever thought about a career in politics?

    Do you not think there are people out there that believe in 100% of these absolutist values?

    I don't want to guess what you have in your mind, but based on your answers I guess you don't believe in these absolutist values. Maybe there is Hope after all.
  15. #435  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1thing2add View Post
    Answered another way, who here has advocated these absolutist values? Name names, by all means. However, please supply the corroborating statements of others to support any claims you make.
    How long have you been in politics?

    I can answer Tech's questions cause I can commit to a point of view and I am not a fact dodging coward.

    Free Healthcare for all? Nope. Nothing is free except advice and much of that is worth what you paid. Besides if it's free who pays the docs?
    Free Dental Care for all? See first question, but replace docs with dentists of course
    Free Basic Healthy Food for all? I think if you want to grow/raise your own food thats great. As close to free as you'll get. Me I like the market.
    Free Basic Housing for all? Not likely but if it happens I want Bill Gates house. We do get to pick right?
    Free Childcare so you can work? Nope, you choose to have kids you should take care of them. If you can't afford them don't have them. How good would the care be if it was free. Watching someone else's kids for free is not something most folks would sign up for.
    Free Transportation so you can get to that job? the vast majority of folks come with free transportation. They're called feet.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  16. #436  
    Quote Originally Posted by windzilla View Post
    I haven't exposed my thoughts on the matter in this forum, nor really reacted to anyone here with anything other than lighthearted jest. (things like fed-ex and sweating)

    But i'll bite, can you tell me, how do I take your personal feelings?
    you can probably guess my opinion of gov't run healthcare by reading the last few pages, but I can assure you, I don't really think libraries are all bad. Just the extreme left sides of them.
  17. #437  
    Quote Originally Posted by morrison0880 View Post
    you can probably guess my opinion of gov't run healthcare by reading the last few pages, but I can assure you, I don't really think libraries are all bad. Just the extreme left sides of them.
    swing and a miss man

    no i realized you were being sarcastical on the internets when you poo poo'd the lib (short for library)

    what i was asking was, how do you know what i think of your opinion?

    I wasn't asking what opinion you have, just what you think my judgment of that opinion would be.

    anyway, sounds like a kerfuffle for the Internets and all amounts to nothing.

    goodnight everybody.
    There are four lights.
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    #438  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof View Post
    Gee noaxis2 it now looks as though you are George Bush. You're still just a dumb Ivy Leaguer.

    You must be crushed to hear that a dr with such high self regard and obviously the best education available thinks so poorly of you. I know it just tears me up.
    Yeah...maybe I should get into therapy... But since there is no parity for mental health treatment with most insurance providers, I may have to pay out of pocket. Better wait for Obamacare and your tax dollars to save me!!

    Geez...I wonder if I've got some GWB cash hidden around here somewhere...

    I thought Ivy League degrees were supposed to be the big thing now that this administration has so many of them...



    Being me has its advantages.

    -- Albus Dumbledore, Headmaster, Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry
  19. #439  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof View Post
    How long have you been in politics?

    I can answer Tech's questions cause I can commit to a point of view and I am not a fact dodging coward.

    Free Healthcare for all? Nope. Nothing is free except advice and much of that is worth what you paid. Besides if it's free who pays the docs?
    Free Dental Care for all? See first question, but replace docs with dentists of course
    Free Basic Healthy Food for all? I think if you want to grow/raise your own food thats great. As close to free as you'll get. Me I like the market.
    Free Basic Housing for all? Not likely but if it happens I want Bill Gates house. We do get to pick right?
    Free Childcare so you can work? Nope, you choose to have kids you should take care of them. If you can't afford them don't have them. How good would the care be if it was free. Watching someone else's kids for free is not something most folks would sign up for.
    Free Transportation so you can get to that job? the vast majority of folks come with free transportation. They're called feet.
    First point: "free dental care"- under California penal system prisoners get basic dental care. If their tooth aches they will put an immate on the emergency list and give a prisoner a choice of tooth extraction. Other Dental care gets put on a waiting list. Not an ideal system but the cheapest efficient manner of doing dental care.

    2nd point Basic Food given as in Food stamp program. A person could survive if they knew the best way to economize. Milk and other foodstuff can be supplemented by food banks. The limiting factor is that people who have a reported income of a certain amount can be ineligible for food stamp program. Some restrictions on how long they can be on food stamps may apply. Also some states require a certain bit of work for welfare program.

    Strangely in California's capital they are trying to stop homeless encampments. They are using anti-camping laws. The right to be housed is not enshrined in the Constitution. Section 8 is sort of a sliding scale subsidy for the poor, too bad the waiting lines is long for a program that has been losing money for the subsidies.

    I will avoid the issue of free childcare. In California mothers with newborns up to toddlers can be subsidized with welfare. However Pre-school is an interesting topic. Children who go to pre-school are better able to cope with kindergarden and above. Who doesn't want to give a child a head start? The sooner you can educate a child, supposedly the sooner he/she could take care of themselves.

    Transportation: what is better than feet? A bicycle. It is non polluting and can transport people quickly and quietly. I wouldn't mind a bicycle in every garage.
  20. #440  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    I give my tax dollars for welfare programs in this state and this country.
    One thing ProLifers can hate on is the allowing the floodgates of Abortion to open.

    But the tax dollars also went for the defense department, Homeland security and ICE enforcement, road building funds and a lot of money towards the maintence of the national debt.

    Not all taxpayers money will go toward things they hate or love. Specifying a specific part of it is a useless distraction. Spending cuts is both hated by Republicans and Democrats.

    I'll tell you what if we cut tax dollars for welfare programs can we give the corporations less of a tax break?

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