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  1. Micael's Avatar
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    #341  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1thing2add View Post
    If I were picking teams, you wouldn't qualify to ride the bench or fetch water.

    The 6 years of formal education it takes to follow this subject proficiently is more than the simple pablum you and yours rely on for false arguments anyway. Can hardly blame you for not seeking out qualified support information on your own.
    We get it. You can't answer it. No need to continue to expose yourself as woefully ignorant on the subject. We'll cut you some slack! Relax!
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  2.    #342  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1thing2add View Post

    The 6 years of formal education it takes to follow this subject proficiently is more than the simple pablum you and yours rely on for false arguments anyway.
    Wow, that explains it...you shouldn't have stopped in the 6th Grade!
  3.    #343  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1thing2add View Post
    Sure, a liberal thesis and proof you know how to use Amazon.com. Still haven't seen any answers.

    Palin 2012!!
  4. #344  
    I'm sure you'll all enjoy this little ditty.

  5. #345  
    duplicate post I liked it so much.
    Last edited by davidra; 09/30/2009 at 02:29 PM.
  6. Micael's Avatar
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    #346  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    I'm sure you'll all enjoy this little ditty.

    Wow! This convinced me! Thanks davidra
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  7. #347  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Wow! This convinced me! Thanks davidra
    I figured. It is a lot more convincing than some of the drivel I hear from the "conservatives". I especially like the town hall talking points. You might want to write them down.
  8. #348  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1thing2add View Post
    Wow not only is healthcare a right, but now one must earn the right to discuss and question the economics involved.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  9. #349  
    20 pages.....how are you guys doing at fixing healthcare?

    Can you hurry up....I have a bunyon on my left foot that I need taken care of.
  10. #350  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    I'm sure you'll all enjoy this little ditty.

    Using our "ranking" of 37th in the world in healthcare as some sort of point on the debate of healthcare is a complete shortcut to thinking, and that person should never be taken seriously again in any discussion. The WHO presents this list as an objective ranking of the state of healthcare among nations, when it is anything but objective. For example, one of the criteria in there rankings is "Overall Level of Health." This should have nothing to do with ranking the healthcare of a nation. It's true that a country with horrendous healthcare is probably going to have a poor level of health in its population. However, there are many more facotrs that go into this level of health. As much as it may try, a countries healthcare system can't stop people from smoking, drinking, eating bad food, engaging in dangerous lifestyles, etc. There are many more variables that go into this criteria than a country's healthcare level, yet this is used to help determine the US's healthcare ranking? Look into the other criteria and tell me with a straight face that they are completely objective and 100% related solely to the level of healthcare our country supplies it's citizens.

    Another example I hate hearing is that no one should complain about a mandatory public insurance option if one is not covered by private healthcare, because the law requires auto insurance, and we don't complain about that. First off, I will not debate the merits of the current auto insurance law, since that is not the topic. Second, no one is forcing you to buy auto insurance if you don't drive a car. I have the choice to rely on public transportation or a bike, or my legs if I don't own a car, so the insurance is not 100% mandatory for the entire population. Yet this option does make it mandatory. I have a problem with that.

    I had a quick rant on this once in an email exchange I was having with a friend, and I'd like to share it with you here:

    "I really wish people would take some personal responsibility instead of relying on others to give them what the "deserve." Here's a thought: put down the cell phone, get rid of cable, and buy some damn health insurance. Oh wait, that would cramp your nightlife. My bad. Obama, gimme gimme gimme!"

    Amazingly, my extremely Liberal friend agreed with this quite a bit. And just for the record, I consider myself a left-leaning conservative, whatever that means. Don't fool yourself, you have life pretty good, expecially since you are reading this post on a computer. I bet that if you are someone that doesn't have insurance, if you look at your life, you could very easily cut out enough money from what you currently spend in order to buy yourself healthcare. The fact is that the MAJORITY, not all but most, of the people with insurance could afford it if they were willing to sacrifice their phones, their cable, their fast food, their name brand anything, etc. Sell your house and move into a cheaper apt. Move out of your current apt and into a cheaper one. Pinch pennies everywhere. Your parents did it, your grandparents certainly did it, so why do you think it's unfair for you to have to sacrifice what you want in life in order to get what you need? Why should you be entitled to both healthcare AND a pair of Nikes to wear while you talk on your new Palm pre with a $70 service plan? I think you know which one is more important in many people's eyes.

    Look, could we use healthcare reform in some way or another? Absolutely. Are you entitled to healthcare, given free by the state on the shoulders of those who work for theirs? Absolutely not. If I want to help my neighbor, that is up to me. I don't need the gov't telling me that I have to.

    Quick question: Why does anyone want the gov't more involved in their everyday lives? Or even better, why would anyone want the gov't making choices about your health, your lifestyle, and your life? That's not my idea of freedom.
  11. #351  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1thing2add View Post
    Quick answer: The government will not be in the business of "making choices about your health, your lifestyle, and your life". If you have a tangible basis for such fear, please present your evidence.

    Quicker answer: Healthcare Reform = Public Funded/Privately Administered.
    exactly how its done in Canada....lol..
  12. #352  
    Quote Originally Posted by morrison0880 View Post
    Using our "ranking" of 37th in the world in healthcare as some sort of point on the debate of healthcare is a complete shortcut to thinking, and that person should never be taken seriously again in any discussion. The WHO presents this list as an objective ranking of the state of healthcare among nations, when it is anything but objective. For example, one of the criteria in there rankings is "Overall Level of Health." This should have nothing to do with ranking the healthcare of a nation. It's true that a country with horrendous healthcare is probably going to have a poor level of health in its population. However, there are many more facotrs that go into this level of health. As much as it may try, a countries healthcare system can't stop people from smoking, drinking, eating bad food, engaging in dangerous lifestyles, etc. There are many more variables that go into this criteria than a country's healthcare level, yet this is used to help determine the US's healthcare ranking? Look into the other criteria and tell me with a straight face that they are completely objective and 100% related solely to the level of healthcare our country supplies it's citizens.

    Another example I hate hearing is that no one should complain about a mandatory public insurance option if one is not covered by private healthcare, because the law requires auto insurance, and we don't complain about that. First off, I will not debate the merits of the current auto insurance law, since that is not the topic. Second, no one is forcing you to buy auto insurance if you don't drive a car. I have the choice to rely on public transportation or a bike, or my legs if I don't own a car, so the insurance is not 100% mandatory for the entire population. Yet this option does make it mandatory. I have a problem with that.

    I had a quick rant on this once in an email exchange I was having with a friend, and I'd like to share it with you here:

    "I really wish people would take some personal responsibility instead of relying on others to give them what the "deserve." Here's a thought: put down the cell phone, get rid of cable, and buy some damn health insurance. Oh wait, that would cramp your nightlife. My bad. Obama, gimme gimme gimme!"

    Amazingly, my extremely Liberal friend agreed with this quite a bit. And just for the record, I consider myself a left-leaning conservative, whatever that means. Don't fool yourself, you have life pretty good, expecially since you are reading this post on a computer. I bet that if you are someone that doesn't have insurance, if you look at your life, you could very easily cut out enough money from what you currently spend in order to buy yourself healthcare. The fact is that the MAJORITY, not all but most, of the people with insurance could afford it if they were willing to sacrifice their phones, their cable, their fast food, their name brand anything, etc. Sell your house and move into a cheaper apt. Move out of your current apt and into a cheaper one. Pinch pennies everywhere. Your parents did it, your grandparents certainly did it, so why do you think it's unfair for you to have to sacrifice what you want in life in order to get what you need? Why should you be entitled to both healthcare AND a pair of Nikes to wear while you talk on your new Palm pre with a $70 service plan? I think you know which one is more important in many people's eyes.

    Look, could we use healthcare reform in some way or another? Absolutely. Are you entitled to healthcare, given free by the state on the shoulders of those who work for theirs? Absolutely not. If I want to help my neighbor, that is up to me. I don't need the gov't telling me that I have to.

    Quick question: Why does anyone want the gov't more involved in their everyday lives? Or even better, why would anyone want the gov't making choices about your health, your lifestyle, and your life? That's not my idea of freedom.
    Quick question for you: why would anyone bring up an argument that has been thoroughly discussed at great length in the two threads about health care on this forum? Why don't you try and educate yourself by actually reading what's been posted? Believe me....we know the arguments about WHO rankings. We also have posted a number of other, independent assessments of the quality of health internationally and the US sucks at each and every one. So spend some time reading. I'm SURE you will learn something. When I post a Youtube video about WHO rankings, believe me, it's not because it's being raised for the first time. The fact is, for example, that our smoking rates are much lower than other countries that are above us on the list. But really, arguing about this again is tiresome.

    Meanwhile, keep prattling on about how the mean old government is going to get involved in your everyday lives....when there's nothing in any of the bills that says that. That is some rightwing nightmare fear-provoking manure...but sounds like you've already lined up for it. Eat well.
  13. #353  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1thing2add View Post
    Quick answer: The government will not be in the business of "making choices about your health, your lifestyle, and your life". If you have a tangible basis for such fear, please present your evidence.

    Quicker answer: Healthcare Reform = Public Funded/Privately Administered.
    right now, a big complaint people have is that the insurance companies can decide what they will and will not cover. Please tell me with your obviously superior mind why the gov't will, in the end, be any different.when control is taken out of you hands and placed with the gov't, you are at their mercy. And the fun part is, we all get to pay for it!
    there have been talks about taxing so called 'sins', like fast food, soda, etc. Cigarette taxes are now incredibly high. With the gov't in charhe, and healthcare coverage mandatory, they are in a position to require lifestyle changes in order to receive treatment. That is called control. Why anyone would be in favor of more gov't involvement is beyond me.
  14. #354  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    Quick question for you: why would anyone bring up an argument that has been thoroughly discussed at great length in the two threads about health care on this forum? Why don't you try and educate yourself by actually reading what's been posted? Believe me....we know the arguments about WHO rankings. We also have posted a number of other, independent assessments of the quality of health internationally and the US sucks at each and every one. So spend some time reading. I'm SURE you will learn something. When I post a Youtube video about WHO rankings, believe me, it's not because it's being raised for the first time. The fact is, for example, that our smoking rates are much lower than other countries that are above us on the list. But really, arguing about this again is tiresome.

    Meanwhile, keep prattling on about how the mean old government is going to get involved in your everyday lives....when there's nothing in any of the bills that says that. That is some rightwing nightmare fear-provoking manure...but sounds like you've already lined up for it. Eat well.
    well. I apologize for offending you by posting this. You are right and I am wrong. I should know better than to rile any lefty, knowing the wrath I was risking. So please, forgive me as I humble myself before you and your liberal wisdom. By all means, let's make sure everyone has healthcare, no matter what the cost. After all, everyone is entitled to it. Let's tax the wealthy. We all know they didn't do anything to earn that money. They really do need to pay for the healthcare of a woman with five kids from five different men, because god knows she can't afford to give up her weekly manicure. And we also need to take care of that bum next door who can't get a job because it will get in the way of him and his bottle. Yes, the rich are evil and need to pay, as do everyone else responsible enough to hold down jobs.
    and you're right. Having the gov't intimately involved in our healthcare decisions is a great idea. Those of us who bring up valid concerns about having to rely on the gov't for decisions concerning how we care for ourselves and what treatments we pursue are indeed full of *****. Thank you for pointing this out to me, and so kindly as well. I will make sure I and those who oppose this healthcare miracle keep quiet. After all, we must just be spouting crap we learned from talk radio, and don't do any serious thinking on the subject at all. We all know that the crap...I'm sorry, the truth you speak is fully your own analysis of the bill that you have read thoroughly, and not from talking points from leftist pundits. Man, I'm so ****ed I wasted my education. I obviously lost the ability to think for myself, unlike you libs.

    and f you for telling me not to post what I want. You have a problem with it and get angry, just go rob a person with a dime in his pocket and give it to an underage pregnant girl so she can get an abortion without telling the two people who have raised her their entire lives, and are otherwise legally liable for any of her other actions.
    Last edited by groovy; 09/30/2009 at 08:51 PM.
  15. #355  
    Quote Originally Posted by morrison0880 View Post
    well. I apologize for offending you by posting this. You are right and I am wrong. I should know better than to rile any lefty, knowing the wrath I was risking. So please, forgive me as I humble myself before you and your liberal wisdom. By all means, let's make sure everyone has healthcare, no matter what the cost. After all, everyone is entitled to it. Let's tax the wealthy. We all know they didn't do anything to earn that money. They really do need to pay for the healthcare of a woman with five kids from five different men, because god knows she can't afford to give up her weekly manicure. And we also need to take care of that bum next door who can't get a job because it will get in the way of him and his bottle. Yes, the rich are evil and need to pay, as do everyone else responsible enough to hold down jobs.
    and you're right. Having the gov't intimately involved in our healthcare decisions is a great idea. Those of us who bring up valid concerns about having to rely on the gov't for decisions concerning how we care for ourselves and what treatments we pursue are indeed full of *****. Thank you for pointing this out to me, and so kindly as well. I will make sure I and those who oppose this healthcare miracle keep quiet. After all, we must just be spouting crap we learned from talk radio, and don't do any serious thinking on the subject at all. We all know that the crap...I'm sorry, the truth you speak is fully your own analysis of the bill that you have read thoroughly, and not from talking points from leftist pundits. Man, I'm so ****ed I wasted my education. I obviously lost the ability to think for myself, unlike you libs.

    and f you for telling me not to post what I want. You have a problem with it and get angry, just go rob a person with a dime in his pocket and give it to an underage pregnant girl so she can get an abortion without telling the two people who have raised her their entire lives, and are otherwise legally liable for any of her other actions.
    Careful Mo, he's a Dr and he's really smart. Just ask him he'll tell you.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  16. #356  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1thing2add View Post
    Ahhh, yes. The false-argument of intellectual class warfare. It 's been properly covered within the healthcare/insurance reform threads as well.

    Yep, the fear of the domino-effect still has not been substantiated and its non-existence doesn't help your argument.



    Should a Big Mac, for example, cost $5 because the corporate welfare McDonalds has received and used to flood the public airwaves since 1966 has created more than one generation of kids with Type-2 diabetes? There are no free lunches.

    Although the numbers continued to increase in 2008, the Kaiser 2007 study certainly told the tale of sheer numbers. 45-46M uninsured and another 38-39M who have exhausted their insurance or been refused insurance coverage altogether and are on Medicaid at a cost to each and every tax payer. These growing numbers combined with the annual insurance premium cost increases approaching 20% are unsustainable. If this were a national fire, the only thing Republicans would be contributing would be marshmallows.

    Wow. Impressive. BS slanted stats, fancy pie chart, blame McDonalds, not the individual....marshmallows?

    -sigh- ******bags
  17. noaxis2's Avatar
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    #357  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof View Post
    Careful Mo, he's a Dr and he's really smart. Just ask him he'll tell you.
    yeah...I have three degrees including an Ivy League medical degree...and he definitely considers my commentary to be beneath him.

    maybe a group of us should form a group and cede...nah...he would have anyone to look down on or feel superior to.

    we're providing a service...an outlet
  18. #358  
    Quote Originally Posted by noaxis2 View Post
    yeah...I have three degrees including an Ivy League medical degree...and he definitely considers my commentary to be beneath him.

    maybe a group of us should form a group and cede...nah...he would have anyone to look down on or feel superior to.

    we're providing a service...an outlet
    Didn't George Bush have an Ivy League degree? Yeah, I think he did. You are very proud of your Ivy League degree, having mentioned it several times. Clearly it doesn't guarantee judgement. And yes, indeed, I have a DrPH as well as an MD, and the only thing that means is that I've studied a whole lot more about health care systems than you. That doesn't mean I'm right....common sense, age and experience tells me that.
    Last edited by davidra; 09/30/2009 at 11:49 PM.
  19. #359  
    Quote Originally Posted by morrison0880 View Post
    there have been talks about taxing so called 'sins', like fast food, soda, etc. Cigarette taxes are now incredibly high. With the gov't in charhe, and healthcare coverage mandatory, they are in a position to require lifestyle changes in order to receive treatment. That is called control. Why anyone would be in favor of more gov't involvement is beyond me.
    Give me any evidence that these kind of ridiculous suggestions are being planned by anybody. Just more scare tactics. Why would anyone favor more government involvement? Simple. We are in the craphole we're in because of private insurance companies, some fraudulent and uneducated doctors, and a lack of any kind of organized health care system. That's why. Just try asking people to give up their Medicare. Must be really bad, huh?
  20. #360  
    Quote Originally Posted by morrison0880 View Post
    well. I apologize for offending you by posting this. You are right and I am wrong. I should know better than to rile any lefty, knowing the wrath I was risking. So please, forgive me as I humble myself before you and your liberal wisdom. By all means, let's make sure everyone has healthcare, no matter what the cost. After all, everyone is entitled to it. Let's tax the wealthy. We all know they didn't do anything to earn that money. They really do need to pay for the healthcare of a woman with five kids from five different men, because god knows she can't afford to give up her weekly manicure. And we also need to take care of that bum next door who can't get a job because it will get in the way of him and his bottle. Yes, the rich are evil and need to pay, as do everyone else responsible enough to hold down jobs.
    and you're right. Having the gov't intimately involved in our healthcare decisions is a great idea. Those of us who bring up valid concerns about having to rely on the gov't for decisions concerning how we care for ourselves and what treatments we pursue are indeed full of *****. Thank you for pointing this out to me, and so kindly as well. I will make sure I and those who oppose this healthcare miracle keep quiet. After all, we must just be spouting crap we learned from talk radio, and don't do any serious thinking on the subject at all. We all know that the crap...I'm sorry, the truth you speak is fully your own analysis of the bill that you have read thoroughly, and not from talking points from leftist pundits. Man, I'm so ****ed I wasted my education. I obviously lost the ability to think for myself, unlike you libs.

    and f you for telling me not to post what I want. You have a problem with it and get angry, just go rob a person with a dime in his pocket and give it to an underage pregnant girl so she can get an abortion without telling the two people who have raised her their entire lives, and are otherwise legally liable for any of her other actions.
    You can waste as much bandwidth as you feel necessary to make yourself feel better. Why don't you read some of the posts from Canadians in these threads and see if they have the same attitude about people who can't afford insurance? Do you know that 80% of medical bankruptcies are in working people? Do you know that 60% of all bankruptcies are medically caused? Your comments are mundane and misplaced. You can gripe all you want about the woman with 5 kids, but that's not who's in trouble. That woman likely has Medicaid. The people that are in trouble are the working uninsured. Got that? They are working, and they have no insurance. They are not the unemployed bum. Only around 60% of workers have insurance, and around 80% of the uninsured are in families that are headed by people that have jobs. Makes it easier for you to make reform and a government plan the boogey man if you make up stuff. Of course, they might have wasted their education, unlike you, because you clearly are educated. Try actually pinpointing where the problem is, instead of setting up straw men like underage teenage girls and mothers who already have Medicaid. But that's totally expected, because that's the misdirection and lack of understanding exhibited by most people that actually know little about who has insurance and who doesn't.
    Last edited by davidra; 09/30/2009 at 11:48 PM.

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