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  1. kabamm's Avatar
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    #201  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    First--what I was describing was the ability of an individual to provide for themselves individual needs vs public projects essentially, not arguing that people with no money could somehow pay for things without money. People earning a profit and giving big chunks of it to the government to give to you.
    Which I am now doing for them/us - and will continue to do when my health-care premiums are a tax instead of a corporate fee. There's plenty of money to go around and plenty of money to fund a single-payer system. The gnashing of teeth we're hearing from the likes of you is resistance to progress.

    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    Your statement about "deregulated" markets is misleading I think. Those markets were highly regulated.
    Obviously not highly enough, I was referring to the deregulated energy markets, and the deregulated financial markets. Enron et. al. nearly bankrupted CA, and AIG, Goldman, Citi, etc, nearly bankrupted the Western world. The free market concept is not impressing me with its social support, and a 'free market' in health insurance is/will have a similar disastrous effect.

    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    It is a gross oversimplification to state that the problem is a matter of just more or less regulation.
    That's not what I said. I said sensible regulation is indicated. You may have noticed that absent increased regulation, financiers are engaging in new credit default swaps. Plain foolish.

    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    Again--we do not have a free market system for healthcare, and it isn't the Free market that failed our economy. It is Anti-Free market, non-capitalist manipulation largely pushed by government (and others).
    *snort* The current mess is a complete vilification of neo-conservative free-market policies.

    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    This is what people wanted when they voted for Obama? I doubt you can prove that.
    Done. Number one item on the 2008 Democratic Party Platform: Affordable, Quality Health Care Coverage for all Americans: The Democratic Party. Presumably, folks who voted for Obama were aware of that. It's a shame that Baucus and his 'committee of six' screwed this up.

    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    How about this--leave me out of it. That's pretty easy to understand isn't it? Stop seeking to do things to me that I don't want. If you want to take part in a big government plan--that's your choice, I won't stop you, but you should respect my choice to not be forced into what you want.
    Like it or not, we're in this together :-) I'm childless and I don't travel much, but you won't hear me griping about having to pay for schools and airports. Missiles and bombs, yes. Schools, airports, libraries, police, public health-care, etc. No.
    Last edited by kabamm; 09/19/2009 at 09:32 PM.
    "I like paying taxes. With them I buy civilization." Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes.
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  2. #202  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1thing2add View Post
    What evidence supports your correct answer?
    Must be something I saw on the news. Obama was born in a hospital in Hawaii. Honestly, I don't care if he was born in the drive thru at Burger King. His birth status, citizenship, residency, viability at birth etc. are not subjects I care one whit about.

    Can you let it go?
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  3. #203  
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  4. #204  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1thing2add View Post
    One might want to consider making the same suggestion to a certain percentage of those who are otherwise in agreement with your political philosophy.
    And what pray tell is my political philosophy?
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  5. #205  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof View Post
    And what pray tell is my political philosophy?
    Who knows? Only thing for sure is that based on your avatar you don't know what socialism is.
  6.    #206  
    I know what socialism is...see my avatar. Here is someone who has made a lot of money, but did not get to keep it for himself.
  7. #207  
    Quote Originally Posted by Technologic 2 View Post
    I know what socialism is...see my avatar. Here is someone who has made a lot of money, but did not get to keep it for himself.


    Yeah, Warner Brothers is about the intellectual level of the quality of the arguments against meaningful health care reform. You guys just keep watching your Merrie Melodies while others will get something actually done about problems.
  8.    #208  
    Today xxxx is leading the way to healthcare affordability through research, education and consumer engagement, innovative product design, and working to reduce the number of uninsured Americans. As we celebrate 75 years of covering America , we can all take pride in our legacy of landmark achievements in healthcare.

    xxxx is also the largest single processor of Medicare claims in the country.

    Do you know who xxxx is?
  9.    #209  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    Yeah, Warner Brothers is about the intellectual level of the quality of the arguments against meaningful health care reform. You guys just keep watching your Merrie Melodies while others will get something actually done about problems.
    At least I have suggested a solution (see first post of this thread) what are your IDEAS for solutions?

    BTW, I hope you are not jealous because you don't have an avatar, are you?
  10. #210  
    Quote Originally Posted by Technologic 2 View Post
    Today xxxx is leading the way to healthcare affordability through research, education and consumer engagement, innovative product design, and working to reduce the number of uninsured Americans. As we celebrate 75 years of covering America , we can all take pride in our legacy of landmark achievements in healthcare.

    xxxx is also the largest single processor of Medicare claims in the country.

    Do you know who xxxx is?
    As I recall, it's probably EDS or BCBS (both do it). But you will probably find an article that says it's ACORN.
  11.    #211  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    As I recall, it's probably EDS or BCBS (both do it). But you will probably find an article that says it's ACORN.
    I think processing Medicare gave it away, I would not have guessed BCBS with the first paragraph.

    They had a poster "We pay your hospital bills, you pay us .75 per month...the beginning of our problems. People stopped caring how much the hospital charges as long as they only had to pay .75.
  12.    #212  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1thing2add View Post
    You favor or disfavor the public funding/private administration principle of Medicare?
    Anything we can let private industry do, I am for.
  13.    #213  
    I know we have people on both sides of the issue on this forum.

    How do you feel about being FORCED to buy health insurance from a private company (or government run company) or face large penalties with the IRS?

    This compulsion can't be compared to auto insurance, because auto insurance assures you protect the party you injure. What happens to those who don't believe in going to doctors regardless of their health?
  14. #214  
    Quote Originally Posted by Technologic 2 View Post
    I know we have people on both sides of the issue on this forum.

    How do you feel about being FORCED to buy health insurance from a private company (or government run company) or face large penalties with the IRS?

    This compulsion can't be compared to auto insurance, because auto insurance assures you protect the party you injure. What happens to those who don't believe in going to doctors regardless of their health?
    Those who don't believe in going to doctors regardless will still get sick, and someone will provide care for them, and someone will have to pay for it, unless you want to the one to stand at the door of the ER and turn them away to die. So I favor it. I favor anything that will get everyone to share equally in the effort. I would prefer that it be run through expanding Medicare because I believe that's the best way to save money, but if not, the support should be spread around to everyone.

    As an aside, there once was a time in this country when there was only one choice. For many many years there was only one health insurer in this country. Of course, nobody made anybody get it, and a lot of people didn't have it. Everybody liked it, too, since it paid for anything any doctor ordered or anything any patient wanted with few restrictions (although the premiums were not that cheap). That single insurer was Blue Cross Blue Shield. Competition has not improved that company. They are among the worst at paying their providers on time and most recently they've been sued for intimidating their patients into leaving the hospital. These are the kinds of companies you want to turn our health care over to.

    BCBS sued
  15.    #215  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    BCBS...These are the kinds of companies you want to turn our health care over to.
    What is your suggestion? Who should we turn it over to?
  16. #216  
    I've said a number of times that I favor gradually decreasing the age of eligibility for Medicare over several years. It's better to deal with the devil you know than the one you know nothing about. And everyone will yell "but Medicare is going bankrupt" which is not quite correct, but changes will have to be made in the drug benefit, the access to specialists and dealing with fraud. But the fact is I would be fine with anything that gives everyone coverage at all times. The problem is that unless we control costs along with that, any system will go bankrupt and I don't think we should be spending a quarter of our healthcare dollars for overhead to pay for profit companies.
  17.    #217  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    I've said a number of times that I favor gradually decreasing the age of eligibility for Medicare over several years. It's better to deal with the devil you know than the one you know nothing about. And everyone will yell "but Medicare is going bankrupt" which is not quite correct, but changes will have to be made in the drug benefit, the access to specialists and dealing with fraud. But the fact is I would be fine with anything that gives everyone coverage at all times. The problem is that unless we control costs along with that, any system will go bankrupt and I don't think we should be spending a quarter of our healthcare dollars for overhead to pay for profit companies.
    I know a lot of Seniors who are satisfied with their Medicare, I know it has a lot of holes in it...Prescription Drugs is one I hear a lot about. My biggest concern about this is that we will be having more people on Medicare because of the aging Baby Boomers (of which I am one) and if we lower the age it will only increase. Can the Medicare system handle this without limiting fees to doctors so much that we start losing doctors? Can Washington keep their hands off money that was put aside from our pay for our futures? I don't think either Party can do this.

    While I don't agree with a lot of his views, John Kerry had an interesting idea when he was running for President. You were liable for the first $50,000.00 of medical bills. If your bills went over this a Medicare system would take over the excess. For the first $50,000.00 you could either be self insured or purchase private health insurance. Since the insurance would be on the hook for a max of $50k instead of several millions the premiums would be a lot lower. Affordable to almost everyone. Plus it wouldn't put the complete burden on Medicare.
  18. #218  
    Quote Originally Posted by Technologic 2 View Post
    I know we have people on both sides of the issue on this forum.

    How do you feel about being FORCED to buy health insurance from a private company (or government run company) or face large penalties with the IRS?

    This compulsion can't be compared to auto insurance, because auto insurance assures you protect the party you injure. What happens to those who don't believe in going to doctors regardless of their health?
    Mandatory coverage is a necessary component to control health care costs for everyone. The young and "invincible" don't obtain health insurance and get hot by a bus and those costs are passed on to the rest of us with health insurance.

    Now, given the assumption that health insurance should be mandatory to control costs, there should be a government run health insurance available so mandatory insurance is not a boondoggle giveaway to private insurance companies.

    Simple and effective.
  19. groovy's Avatar
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    #219  
    Not so simple. There is a huge number of those "young and invincible" who don't so much feel invincible as they feel broke. If I had to buy my own insurance when I was starting out I wouldn't have been able to eat--no matter how much it costed. So I made a trade off. The mandate combined with a public option is far from a giveaway to the insurance companies, its going to be a huge addition of people on government subsidy. How will this be paid for?
    Last edited by groovy; 09/20/2009 at 10:48 PM.
  20.    #220  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    Mandatory coverage is a necessary component to control health care costs for everyone. The young and "invincible" don't obtain health insurance and get hot by a bus and those costs are passed on to the rest of us with health insurance.

    Now, given the assumption that health insurance should be mandatory to control costs, there should be a government run health insurance available so mandatory insurance is not a boondoggle giveaway to private insurance companies.
    Mandatory would be effective, eliminating the problem of pre-existing conditions. But, the people who would be excluded from the penalties because of income are some of the same ones that don't have coverage.

    I also wonder why some people are so against profits by insurance companies (and I presume healthcare providers). Sure, should someone benefit by my bad health? But, this country is built on rewarding success with profits (Unfortunately, we now reward failure with profits). Healthcare is a necessity, but so is food. Do we stop farmers from making a profit?

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