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  1. #121  
    Is this really what you meant to say?
    Yes that is what I really meant to say. Journalist go to jail all the time for their beliefs, even though there is supposed freedom of the Press. I don't care who goes to jail, no one should be let off the hook if they did something illegal. I don't think anyone should get a free pass just because they brought something to light that I want to know about.

    I also think we should go after elected officials who profit, through taxpayer money, via sweet deals or investing because they have the inside track or ability to influence.
  2. #122  
    Quote Originally Posted by bdhu2001 View Post
    Let the producer and the pretend hooker go to jail for their illegal practices and beliefs.
    Wow. I guess that about sums up everything that is wrong with the Argentinian path we're heading down. How about the hundreds of episodes of "To Catch a Predator" when Chris Hanson recorded pedos admitting to going after kids?

    Now when these two have ACORN workers giving them tips on importing underage sex workers and teaching the kids to "keep their mouths shut", we get Maryland thug politicians saying they're going to go after the filmmakers while protecting the criminals?

    So is it that NBC reporters are Official Approved Sources of Your Opinion, but a couple unwashed peons don't have the same rights? Or is it that the scumbag Maryland politicians are using their power to protect the organization whose agenda they agree with while silencing anyone who'd expose them?

    If you act like a criminal and somebody witnesses it, they testify. The videotape just makes an infinitely more reliable witness that's that much harder to discredit.
  3. #123  
    You can criticize whether it's valid entertainment or not, but I don't see any "dumbing down" in catching pedophiles who would otherwise be at REAL kids houses.

    I also don't see any "dumbing down" in exposing an organization that has been getting tens of millions of dollars from the paychecks of people who don't want to support it, and using it in all manner of criminal ways to push its agenda.

    In a perfect world this stuff would get everyone outraged enough to stop forcing us to fund any of these groups, blatantly criminal or not, who exist to push an agenda using other people's money. While that isn't likely to happen, at the very least it might get the funding yanked from the more blatantly criminal ones.
  4. Micael's Avatar
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    #124  
    Its interesting how those that benefit from ACORN see the sting and taping as illegal, and completely turn a blind eye on the corruption and lawbreaking of ACORN.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  5. #125  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Its interesting how those that benefit from ACORN see the sting and taping as illegal, and completely turn a blind eye on the corruption and lawbreaking of ACORN.
    I guess I am the defacto person here at Treo Centro that could have remotely benefited from Acorn. I have my eyes wide open and anticipate seeing more illegal tapings. Hopefully of white supremist groups and other suspected corrupt groups. However if I don't see more illegal tapings I will cry foul because of selective targeting.

    Who isn't for exposing criminals? However you should do it right and get a court order wiretap.
  6. Micael's Avatar
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    #126  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1thing2add View Post
    There is only one view that matters and that is the law of the land. In MD, it is illegal to record audio communications without disclosing it to the other party. If you want to side with those seeing this as a necessary evil, go right ahead, but there's very little that I would consider "interesting" about it. Outside of the snowball-effect these actions initiate, that is.

    Why not just say that the illegal action was necessary and be done with it?
    Read the law - they're talking about private parties. ACORN is publically funded... your tax dollars and mine at work. They're no more a "private party" than the post office.

    And these films were acquired in more places than just in MD. And ACORN is just as dirty, regardless.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  7. #127  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1thing2add View Post
    "Read the law"? Obviously, you have so please cite the legal reference for the State of Maryland indicating that exemptions/exclusions to the law include persons within a "public funded" enterprise (rather than the usual meaningless innuendo you generally rely on).

    Don't mistake this as a defense of acorn, as they are required to abide by the same laws as every other party. If you and others weren't such partisans, you'd let the courts deal with this where it matters. Your drivel to make political hay out of this has been done before, only to return to the party that created the uproar.

    And the downward spiral continues ...
    Actually this was videotape not audio. Video recording of someone is not generally governed by the same laws as audio tape. If it were it would be difficult for all the video that is done for surveillance purposes. How would you get permission from all the people who get taped?
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  8. #128  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1thing2add View Post
    In the MD case, was it video with audio or video without audio? Given that everyone has seen (and heard it), we already know the answer. They are not inseparable, nor does the law treat them as inseparable. But since Micael has read the citation, he already knows this.
    Would you mind posting something coherent?
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  9. #129  
    Its interesting how those that benefit from ACORN see the sting and taping as illegal, and completely turn a blind eye on the corruption and lawbreaking of ACORN.
    Seeing the ACORN tape as illegal, does not mean that people turn a blind eye to corruption. Two wrongs do not make a right.

    Again, anyone who breaks the law should go to jail. Regardless of whether or not I like what they did. If you read my statement, it was simply that I want more than the little people who got caught to pay.

    Taping the workers is the same as catching the drug dealer and not the person financing the drugs or the right leader. I want all of those doing something illegal to go to jail. Anyone profiting from ACORN, the people who taped ACORN illegally, the Politicians who use their positions for sweetheart deals, all of them.

    The people who taped ACORN are acting like journalist and therefore should go to jail just like any other journalist who went over the line for their beliefs.

    The people on Dateline, have law enforcement involved. They aren't doing this on their own. They are making sure that what they do stays w/in the confines of the law.

    The law is the law. Break it and go to jail.
  10. Micael's Avatar
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    #130  
    Quote Originally Posted by bdhu2001 View Post
    Seeing the ACORN tape as illegal, does not mean that people turn a blind eye to corruption. Two wrongs do not make a right.

    Again, anyone who breaks the law should go to jail. Regardless of whether or not I like what they did. If you read my statement, it was simply that I want more than the little people who got caught to pay.

    Taping the workers is the same as catching the drug dealer and not the person financing the drugs or the right leader. I want all of those doing something illegal to go to jail. Anyone profiting from ACORN, the people who taped ACORN illegally, the Politicians who use their positions for sweetheart deals, all of them.

    The people who taped ACORN are acting like journalist and therefore should go to jail just like any other journalist who went over the line for their beliefs.

    The people on Dateline, have law enforcement involved. They aren't doing this on their own. They are making sure that what they do stays w/in the confines of the law.

    The law is the law. Break it and go to jail.
    Amazing. Why aren't you asking about the corruption that runs all the way up to the top ACORN? This is classic "shoot the messenger", which is a diversionary tactic. Plain and simple. The video tapers are NOT the story.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  11. Micael's Avatar
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    #131  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1thing2add View Post
    What's amazing is that you have no appreciation for equal application of the law. If justice is blind, it cares not "what the story is". Thanks for clarifying that the only thing of importance to you in this sad affair is political gamesmanship.
    Huh? That's your opinion, bub. Don't put words in my mouth.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
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       #132  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Huh? That's your opinion, bub. Don't put words in my mouth.
    "Paraphrasing" is a popular euphemism for setting up a strawman argument. It's all the rage!
  13. #133  
    Privacy laws apply to individuals in private settings--I can't climb your fence, open your window, and stick a mic inside.

    If you run out in the street and do something stupid, you have no claims to privacy because you're in public view. You don't get to have the guys taping you jailed to shut them up.

    Likewise, public officials have no such claims to privacy when they're dealing with public funding (ie my paycheck). ACORN is a public entity committing public actions with public funding.

    Having corrupt ACORN-backed Maryland politicians ignore their advising people on how to set up brothels for underage foreign prostitutes using federal money while threatening to imprison the people who exposed it is not the "law of the land" or "rule of law". It's the opposite--"rule of man" (or thug), where government is used selectively as a weapon to push your agenda while coercing those who dissent into silence.

    It's the behavior of a banana republic.
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       #134  
    Quote Originally Posted by jaguar717 View Post
    Privacy laws apply to individuals in private settings--I can't climb your fence, open your window, and stick a mic inside.

    If you run out in the street and do something stupid, you have no claims to privacy because you're in public view. You don't get to have the guys taping you jailed to shut them up.

    Likewise, public officials have no such claims to privacy when they're dealing with public funding (ie my paycheck). ACORN is a public entity committing public actions with public funding.
    You bring up a good point. If ACORN does sue, as I read it, the likely defense would be that this was a public meeting and there was no reasonable expectation of privacy. One could argue that since this was in a public place of business and the meetings were held in a public area of the building and/or not behind closed doors, and that ACORN does provide general advice that's publicly available, there was no reasonable expectation of privacy. On the other hand, if they were discussing personal tax and financial information there usually is an expectation of privacy. Although they did state that no forms were ever filled out so there was no real transfer of private personal information.
  15. Micael's Avatar
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    #135  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1thing2add View Post
    Your partisan hyperbole is quaint but does not address the legal issue.

    Still waiting for Micael (or you, if you'd care) to cite the State of Maryland code which examines this area of their law. Since this is the location where there is question, it's certainly appropriate.You can assume til the cows come home, but that doesn't make for a terribly compelling argument before a judge (where it actually matters).
    I could care less about some Maryland code, or what they do with it. I want ACORN dismantled. It's corrupt from top to bottom. I want our tax dollars to go to non partisaned programs. If the shoe was on the other foot, the left would be screaming bloody murder until the agency was destroyed (and rightly so).
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  16. Micael's Avatar
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    #136  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1thing2add View Post
    The same law you use to destroy is a double-edged sword. Nice to have you on record for "not caring less" about the law you use as a weapon.
    Ummmm.... eh?
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  17. Micael's Avatar
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    #137  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1thing2add View Post
    That about sums up your "informed" opinions on this subject in toto, doesn't it?
    You accusations were unfounded, out of context, and quite frankly, make no sense. Hence the "eh?".
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  18. Micael's Avatar
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    #138  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1thing2add View Post
    Keep telling yourself that. Statements like that, in the face of immediate evidence to the contrary, may be worth something some day. Like Enron stock.
    What law am I using to destroy, 1thing2add?
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  19. #139  
    Ok, let's go and hit NBC/CBS/ABC and all the others out there for doing this. It is nothing more than politics intended to shut the opposition up.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1thing2add View Post
    Your partisan hyperbole is quaint but does not address the legal issue.

    Still waiting for Micael (or you, if you'd care) to cite the State of Maryland code which examines this area of their law. Since this is the location where there is question, it's certainly appropriate.You can assume til the cows come home, but that doesn't make for a terribly compelling argument before a judge (where it actually matters).
  20. #140  
    Please tell us what the videos do show. Do they show the employees as being honest? Do they show the same actions across the nation? Do they show the employees talking about illegal activity? Do they? If so, then really now.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1thing2add View Post
    The same law you use to destroy is a double-edged sword. Nice to have you on record for "not caring less" about the law you use as a weapon.



    These highly edited, amateur videos proved that? Really? Where?



    Have you any clue as to what percentage of ACORN's funding is derived from public funds?



    You, the one who has no appreciation for the equal application of blind justice can say this with a straight face? Horse-hockey!
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