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  1. groovy's Avatar
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    #81  
    Quote Originally Posted by theog View Post
    I understand your point... good one... no argument from me on that...

    Freedom of speech.

    My thought is do the Republicans really want this guy talking??? Sometimes such far out stuff does not help the "cause" in which you are fighting. Who really wants to suppress this guy?

    Guess I say that because a good friend of mine is a hard Republican... he hates a lot of stuff going around now. I happen to think he is right... the Bush Game is so 90's.

    Hi!!! Did you know he has a black child??? Born out of wedlock??? Wow. Vote for me!!!!
    Honestly, I'm not a fan of cable news at all. They all act on the assumption, perhaps correctly, that dumbing down the broadcasts is the way to get viewers. Part of doing that is to distill every issue down into two main arguments: Left and Right. Because a) we're obviously too stupid to follow more than two points at a time; and b) they can play people off one another and get us all fired up.

    Furthermore, the RNC and DNC, while they purport to disagree on so much, actually agree on quite a lot. One of the things on which they stridently agree is that we should only have two viable political parties. So why would either group be interested in quieting the Left-Right banter on the MSM? The more they can polarize the public into their respective tribes the stronger they become. If Beck is a polarizing figure, he fits the bill. Personally, I think Beck has historically been more independent. Maybe that's changed since he's been on Fox, I don't know. While I defend Beck speaking his mind, I don't watch him.
  2. groovy's Avatar
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    #82  
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaer57 View Post
    I'm sure Beck's audience contains a large amount of conservative/libertarian viewers who aren't fans of government intervention regardless of who it originates from (Obama, Bush, Clinton, etc.). Beck spends a lot of time covering those who practice or promote a Marxist philosophy, which is the antithesis of a libertarian or classical liberal philosophy...
    Glad to hear it. Moreover, I'm glad to hear another person acknowledge the term Classical Liberal".
  3. groovy's Avatar
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    #83  
    Quote Originally Posted by mrloserpunk View Post
    However, show me where the democratic party is making this decision...I'd argue that the dems have not started playing silly season with the FCC reguarding Television rules......yet.
    Actually, that was in reference to theog saying the Dems should "let him talk". So, it was kind of hypothetical. But considering how quickly they moved a major US corporation into action, it's not too hard to imagine that they do have the power to determine who gets to speak and who doesn't.
  4. #84  
    Wow, now I like Sprint even more!
    Last edited by darreno1; 08/26/2009 at 12:11 AM.
    Sony Clie --> Tungsten t2 --> iPhone3g --> Palm Pre --> Droid
  5. #85  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    Furthermore, the RNC and DNC, while they purport to disagree on so much, actually agree on quite a lot. One of the things on which they stridently agree is that we should only have two viable political parties. So why would either group be interested in quieting the Left-Right banter on the MSM? The more they can polarize the public into their respective tribes the stronger they become.
    I totally agree. There are no "real" clear differences between the parties. They have gotten so comfortable, and fortified their respective positions so much that really we are choosing the same priorities and just slightly different methods of accomplishing the same tasks.
    That's why nothing gets done on the hill...because they are simply arguing about who thought of it first...
    We do pretty well amongst ourselves with a 60 / 40 split and can respect majority rules...make it 52/48 and our neighbors are traitors stuffing the ballot box!!
    I'd for one like to see an end to campaign finance. End it. and special interest groups and their influence. Public Financing with unlimited volunteer work. Guarantee other parties a spot in the debates and for the love of god why don't we have term limits for all national seats??

    Those would be a big couple of steps to restore some type of choice in this countries political field...but that's imho....

    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    Actually, that was in reference to theog saying the Dems should "let him talk". So, it was kind of hypothetical. But considering how quickly they moved a major US corporation into action, it's not too hard to imagine that they do have the power to determine who gets to speak and who doesn't.
    I'd dunno about this one...you referring to GM?
    Last edited by mrloserpunk; 08/26/2009 at 12:28 AM.
    "When there is no more room in hell, the dead will walk the earth"


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  6. Glod's Avatar
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    #86  
    Hell If I was forced to watch Glenn Beck (someone I disagree with and I know will upset me) I would most likely be inspired to go out and club stray cats and dogs with my 8 Iron.

    But the great thing is, nobody is forcing me to watch Glenn Beck, so this is a non-issue

    So,
    You know what the right thing to do is?
    Turn the TV off or change the channel.

    and about Sprint? unless your Don Draper, I doubt you can totally comprehend the implications of staying a sponsor of that show.
    whatever floats your boat, buddy.
  7. #87  
    Lmao.. People will find anything to boycott/***** about. This is ridiculous..
  8. #88  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    Actually, that was in reference to theog saying the Dems should "let him talk". So, it was kind of hypothetical. But considering how quickly they moved a major US corporation into action, it's not too hard to imagine that they do have the power to determine who gets to speak and who doesn't.
    He has the freedom to speak, just as those who believe he has been engaging in hate speech have their own freedom of speech right to advocate to his sponsors to drop him.

    Freedom of speech does not equal an entitlement to have a broadcast outlet for your opinions.
  9. #89  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    He has the freedom to speak, just as those who believe he has been engaging in hate speech have their own freedom of speech right to advocate to his sponsors to drop him.
    Yep. And those sponsors have the freedom to decide whether to speak (advertise) on his show or not. Freedom of speech includes the freedom to not speak. Beck has no "right" to have advertising on his show.
    Bob Meyer
    I'm out of my mind. But feel free to leave a message.
  10. KAM1138
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    #90  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    I think it's ironic that the OP's canned message was, in itself, misinformation. It stated that "CoC's founder went to prison for inciting the 1992 L.A. Riots". The reality is that he was involved in a protest march, and (with many others) was arrested. The charges were later dropped, and those arrested were given a settlement from the city.

    So I guess the takeaway message is that if a bunch of white guys scream at town meetings, it's an expression of their first amendment (and 2nd amendment if they're carrying AK-47's), but if black guys march in protest it's "inciting a riot".
    Maybe you've missed it, but these people you refer to as "white guys" which from what I've seen is largely made up of people that could easily be grandparents, have been called all sorts of things--including mobs, UnAmerican (by the speaker of the house no less). So, the double standard that you seem to be claiming, doesn't exist.

    In fact, the same people calling these housewives and grandmothers "mobs" are the ones who cheered anti-war protesters, and are pretty silent on various other protesters--including violent ones (like components of the anti-globalization crowd), so they've been directly hypocritical. Remember how just a short time ago dissent was Patriotic. Now, engaging in dissent makes you a "Mob."

    KAM
  11. toddrules's Avatar
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    #91  
    Glen Beck is the lowest form of pundit there is, he just makes up propaganda. Although I think race probably did play a role in how the Prez reacted to that case but all and all Glen Beck is a moron that spews hate and lies. It's sprint right to choose to spend their ad dollars where they want, good for them.
  12. KAM1138
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    #92  
    Hello Everyone,

    Let me bring up a slightly different point if I may. If you put aside your political views, is it smart for Sprint to refuse to advertise on a show that is pretty popular (for its time slot), on a channel that regularly beats its competition? Is it a wise business decision to spend advertising dollars on less viewed programs (if that is the alternative)?

    I doubt that it is, but of course there may be some kids channel that pulls in 10 times the ratings--I have no idea. Having chosen Sprint and Palm, I expect them to do what is best to stay in business, so my investment in them isn't wasted. If they decide to fold to whatever sort of political pressure someone orchestrates against them, I lose faith in them (no matter what side its on).

    That's another point--keep in mind these boycotts are ORCHESTRATED--not a natural reaction from individuals, and hence, I don't find them to be very convincing. I'm not saying individuals might not like Beck or what he says, but rather that a campaign by an activist group is designed to make a lot of noise, but they rarely sustain themselves for very long. Very often they are merely fund-raising tools. They find someone to make their villain (right or wrong) and beat the drums and convince people that they are representing them, and should give them money.

    I believe that individuals should speak with their dollars, but orchestrated efforts...well, let's just say that I believe in individuals over groups.

    KAM
  13. KAM1138
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    #93  
    Quote Originally Posted by toddrules View Post
    Glen Beck is the lowest form of pundit there is, he just makes up propaganda. Although I think race probably did play a role in how the Prez reacted to that case but all and all Glen Beck is a moron that spews hate and lies. It's sprint right to choose to spend their ad dollars where they want, good for them.
    I agree that Sprint can choose to spend their dollars where they wish, but did they independently look at Beck's show and say "that isn't to our liking" or did they cave to some pressure group? Are they any better than Beck? I don't know much about them, and am not seeking to judge, but rather pointing out that Sprint is not acting out of some sort of moral purpose--they are reacting to threats.

    I'd prefer a company that takes a stand based on some principle, rather than cowering in the face of threats. Maybe they are--perhaps they said "We disagree with Glenn Beck," but I haven't seen them say that.

    KAM
  14. Micael's Avatar
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    #94  
    Quote Originally Posted by mrloserpunk View Post
    A bit sensitive are we? You should invent a game where you write conclusions on a big game board and then jump on them...get it jump to conclusions?

    I didnt judge you. I judged the talking heads and pundits that you are saying deserve protection from consumer boycotts under freedom of speech. I disagree wholeheartedly, and if the Faux crew can suggest boycotting an entire country because it's leaders wont back booshes invasion, I think they can eat some of their own medicine when one of them calls the president a racist.
    Now you're putting words in my mouth too. Where did I say anyone deserves protection from boycotts... for any reason? I've clearly stated in this thread that it's your right to boycott. I'm just pointing out how truly silly it is.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  15. Micael's Avatar
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    #95  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    He has the freedom to speak, just as those who believe he has been engaging in hate speech have their own freedom of speech right to advocate to his sponsors to drop him.

    Freedom of speech does not equal an entitlement to have a broadcast outlet for your opinions.
    Wow... deja vu. Anyone remember the Dixie Chicks and the whole "using your position as a platform" and "shut up and sing" debate?

    *shudder*
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  16. Micael's Avatar
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    #96  
    Quote Originally Posted by toddrules View Post
    Glen Beck is the lowest form of pundit there is, he just makes up propaganda. Although I think race probably did play a role in how the Prez reacted to that case but all and all Glen Beck is a moron that spews hate and lies. It's sprint right to choose to spend their ad dollars where they want, good for them.
    Wow. This an amazing post. You actually agree with Beck's assessment, yet you hate him so much, you *still* want him destroyed. You, sir, are a piece of work!
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  17. #97  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    ...I'd prefer a company that takes a stand based on some principle, rather than cowering in the face of threats....
    I agree with your statement. All the companies that pulled out were pretty big, but I seriously doubt any of them were afraid of any threats. I think it was probably an executive board room decision that their money would be better spend advertising on Jon & Kate instead.
    My Phone & My Wife's Phone Two Unlocked GSM Treo Pro's

  18. KAM1138
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    #98  
    Quote Originally Posted by palandri View Post
    I agree with your statement. All the companies that pulled out were pretty big, but I seriously doubt any of them were afraid of any threats. I think it was probably an executive board room decision that their money would be better spend advertising on Jon & Kate instead.
    HAHAH! Yes, get that Gawker Audience.
    Better yet--get Kate a Pre, she is GREAT at product placement. She could be the new Pre Creepy-chick!

    KAM
  19. #99  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    Remember how just a short time ago dissent was Patriotic. Now, engaging in dissent makes you a "Mob."

    KAM
    You're making my point for me. Dissent should be considered patriotic (within reason - I would argue that dissent that prevents others from speaking doesn't advance any conversation, and thus isn't really patriotic), but when Van Jones did it, he was "inciting a riot".

    If you're arguing that the town hall groups are being patriotic, then how can you justify saying that Van Jones' protest march is not also patriotic? It's inconsistent, unless you're agreeing that the OP's statement is simply wrong.
    Everything's Amazing and Nobody's Happy

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  20. toddrules's Avatar
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    #100  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Wow. This an amazing post. You actually agree with Beck's assessment, yet you hate him so much, you *still* want him destroyed. You, sir, are a piece of work!
    I only partially agree with his statement but that doesn't change the fact he spread misinformation on a regular basis. I certainly don't hate him, I don't personally know him. I do not not wish to destroy anyone, quite a leap you took there. I just think his form of rhetoric is dangerous, whether it comes from the left or the right..... now if you'll excuse I have to get back to work in the socialist work camp Obama setup in my area.
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