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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    What were these extremely racially charged things, Sharkims?
    ColorOfChange.org He called Obama a racist against white people, multiple times.



    If Obama speaks emotionally about a subject by accident, he is a racist. Especially in this situation where that officer was just wrong.
    Lovin Sprint, and the Pre.
  2. KAM1138
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    #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by Sharkims View Post
    I am not trying to take rights away from anyone. I am just saying. As uncomfortable as socialism makes a right winger feel, fire arms can do that to people too.
    That's fine--I was just trying to understand what you meant by being imposed upon. If you feel uncomfortable around firearms, well, I can't question that. I'm not sure whether you've ever fired a firearm or not, but I suggest that learning about them, is a good way to reduce your discomfort. Of course that's your choice. If you absolutely positively would never want to even touch a firearm, that's your right too.

    KAM
  3. KAM1138
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    #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by Sharkims View Post
    Obama is not a Progressive. In fact he was paid more by health care companies for his campaign that McCain was. He is just an amazing speaker, and a centrist with no balls.

    Progressives want change, and would have done so by now. Obama HAS the votes in all three branches, he is just more concerned with making everyone work together like we are in the play pen.
    I'm not sure exactly how I would identify Obama, because I think he's worked hard to obscure his actual views (if he has any), but the relatively small amount of actions he has taken in his career seem to lean towards the Progressive side of things. Reality isn't such that the Progressive wish-list can really be accomplished as easy as you might imagine however.

    A centrist he is not, unless the center you are talking about is somewhere between Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid.

    KAM
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    I'm not sure exactly how I would identify Obama, because I think he's worked hard to obscure his actual views (if he has any), but the relatively small amount of actions he has taken in his career seem to lean towards the Progressive side of things. Reality isn't such that the Progressive wish-list can really be accomplished as easy as you might imagine however.

    A centrist he is not, unless the center you are talking about is somewhere between Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid.

    KAM
    Obama is pro big corporations, pro taxing the weathly, pro single payer(not socialized healthcare), pro continuing our "war" efforts throughout the world, and pro american rights.
    The view of Right and Left in this country isn't really right and left. The "left" are just to the left of the center line. The right fell off the chart about 20years ago. To be progressive you just have to do something moderately leftist.

    Given a better option Obama wouldn't have been elected. McCain assured his success with Palin. heh
    Lovin Sprint, and the Pre.
  5. KAM1138
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    #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by zelgo View Post
    Oh yeah--let's blame all that dividing on Obama--like we were all one kum-ba-yah family with Bush.

    At least Obama trying to include Republican ideas to his bills (The Health Reform bills, for example had many ideas contributed by Republicans--including that Death Panel thing...)--Republicans are voting with Obama because all that's left of the Republican Party are Extreme Right Wing crazies.

    In time, Obama will realize that the Republicans won't give an inch--and then he and the Democrats can just run them all over...
    You seem to be misinformed--the Republicans aren't in a position to give an inch. Just like in the healthcare thread you are forwarding a false notion--that is that the Republicans have any say in any of this whatsoever. They cannot muster ANY opposition, even if they are totally united on their own. NONE.

    Can you state what you are talking about when you say that Obama has attempted to include "Republican ideas." On what bills? Quite the Contrary, he has handed control over to the radicals in the leadership of the heavily Democrat controlled Congress. You are trying to create a scenario that doesn't exist. Obama immediately steamrolled Republicans and hasn't made any real efforts to cooperate or compromise at all. All he's done is welcome them to agree with what he and his congressional allies have created with virtually zero input from Republicans.

    Even President Bush had Senator Kennedy (now deceased) in on the Education bill. No, President Obama has not made any serious attempt at "bipartisanship" at all. He never intended to--it was simply what moderate and centrist voters wanted to hear to get him elected--and it worked great. He fooled millions of people and won the Presidency. He's a smart politician--he knows exactly how to promise one thing and do the exact opposite, and get away with it...so far.

    KAM
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    You seem to be misinformed--the Republicans aren't in a position to give an inch. Just like in the healthcare thread you are forwarding a false notion--that is that the Republicans have any say in any of this whatsoever. They cannot muster ANY opposition, even if they are totally united on their own. NONE.

    Can you state what you are talking about when you say that Obama has attempted to include "Republican ideas." On what bills? Quite the Contrary, he has handed control over to the radicals in the leadership of the heavily Democrat controlled Congress. You are trying to create a scenario that doesn't exist. Obama immediately steamrolled Republicans and hasn't made any real efforts to cooperate or compromise at all. All he's done is welcome them to agree with what he and his congressional allies have created with virtually zero input from Republicans.

    Even President Bush had Senator Kennedy (now deceased) in on the Education bill. No, President Obama has not made any serious attempt at "bipartisanship" at all. He never intended to--it was simply what moderate and centrist voters wanted to hear to get him elected--and it worked great. He fooled millions of people and won the Presidency. He's a smart politician--he knows exactly how to promise one thing and do the exact opposite, and get away with it...so far.

    KAM
    Obama has taken this long to pass any rules, because of his need for bipartisanship. That's the reason the stimulus package was as weak as it was. Also why his attempt to push this health care system has taken so long, long enough to lose steam in fact. Now let's be fair here. The Republicans have offered NOTHING in the form of a health care plan. In fact they have been quoted as saying "we just have to stop him and make this Obama's Watergate.", so there is nothing to work with on the republican side.

    Not to mention the lies that are being spewed. It's disgusting to believe Michael Steel would go around one day saying that Medicare is terrible, and the government can't run anything. Then turn around and defend it like it's NOT run by the government. The same lies have been spread by Sarah Palin about death camps. And other various Republican leaders about "destroying the VA". Which BTW is friggen SOCIALIZED health care and it works. Oh also it can't be touch by this bill....

    So no, as far as I am concerned he has gone farther than he should have in trying to rally the Republican leadership on any subject. That is the kind of childish insult, bully behavior that barely belongs on an Elementary School playground. Let alone in the leadership of this country.

    Do not mention Senator Kennedy. The man would back anything that was good for this country. A trait that will be sorely missed, and a vote that will be desperately missed.
    Lovin Sprint, and the Pre.
  7. KAM1138
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    #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by Sharkims View Post
    Obama is pro big corporations, pro taxing the weathly, pro single payer(not socialized healthcare), pro continuing our "war" efforts throughout the world, and pro american rights.
    The view of Right and Left in this country isn't really right and left. The "left" are just to the left of the center line. The right fell off the chart about 20years ago. To be progressive you just have to do something moderately leftist.

    Given a better option Obama wouldn't have been elected. McCain assured his success with Palin. heh
    Pro American Rights? What does that mean?

    I will agree that we are a Center-Right Nation.

    Single payer is socialized system.

    But the most interesting thing you said is that he is Pro Big Corporations. You are actually right about that...in terms of some of them at least. Its called Chrony Capitalism and it is being revealed to be a major part of his plan. He is cutting back-room deals with Big Corporations such as GE. I suspect he is promising them sweet-heart deals on various things, and they are selling out. GM is also (forcibly) in his pocket. This is somewhat new for leftists--to successfully co-opt these big corporations. The lie that the leftists have always pushed is that Republicans are in the pocket of big corporations, but that's not true, or not exclusively true. Democrats are every bit in the pocket of major corporations as well as Unions, Trial Lawyers, most of the major media outlets, etc.

    The Democrats have pulled off a major Coup here--they've got all major groups covered in their little power grab--the only ones left to oppose them are the citizens. Libertarians should be VERY worried.

    KAM
  8. Micael's Avatar
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    #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by zelgo View Post
    Oh yeah--let's blame all that dividing on Obama--like we were all one kum-ba-yah family with Bush.

    At least Obama trying to include Republican ideas to his bills (The Health Reform bills, for example had many ideas contributed by Republicans--including that Death Panel thing...)--Republicans are voting with Obama because all that's left of the Republican Party are Extreme Right Wing crazies.

    In time, Obama will realize that the Republicans won't give an inch--and then he and the Democrats can just run them all over...
    LOL! Like that wasn't the idea to begin with!

    Obama made a big show, early on, of inviting some GOP'rs to the WH to "talk" about his plan. News flash. Obama doesn't have a written plan, he didn't write this plan Zelgo - Congress will, and it's being developed by the House and Senate Democrats. Not by Obama. You see, he thought he'd be smart and let the Congress hash it out, as opposed to Hillarycare, which took a different approach, that is - it *was* written down and handed to Congress to "tweak" and then pass. Since that approach failed miserably, Obama drafted some general concepts and guidelines and then ask Congress to draft it up for him, and if he likes it, he'll pass it.

    The Dems in Congress have no interest in bipartisanship because they don't need it. They can walk this through without the GOP. The question is, midterm elections are just around the corner. Thats the reason for the "pause" in getting 'er done.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    Pro American Rights? What does that mean?

    I will agree that we are a Center-Right Nation.

    Single payer is socialized system.

    But the most interesting thing you said is that he is Pro Big Corporations. You are actually right about that...in terms of some of them at least. Its called Chrony Capitalism and it is being revealed to be a major part of his plan. He is cutting back-room deals with Big Corporations such as GE. I suspect he is promising them sweet-heart deals on various things, and they are selling out. GM is also (forcibly) in his pocket. This is somewhat new for leftists--to successfully co-opt these big corporations. The lie that the leftists have always pushed is that Republicans are in the pocket of big corporations, but that's not true, or not exclusively true. Democrats are every bit in the pocket of major corporations as well as Unions, Trial Lawyers, most of the major media outlets, etc.

    The Democrats have pulled off a major Coup here--they've got all major groups covered in their little power grab--the only ones left to oppose them are the citizens. Libertarians should be VERY worried.

    KAM
    Under bush the tax rate was an an all time high. Over time the top tax bracket will pay less under Obama? Libertarians are foolish when it comes to their Tax views, and private vs public run organizations.

    Both sides have plenty of things in their pockets, and I have stated before. I do not approve of lobbying, or "donating" to campaigns. This has lead us to have NO choice in who runs for office, as the average guy can NOT afford it.

    Finally the Democrats have had this control before, they rarely do anything with it. So we will see, it's not looking to positive now.
    The reason the Republicans are so hated is the current senators and leaders are all idiots. They will scheme, and lie. They will blatantly lie to Americans about what is going on.

    In fact the only way the Republicans have been able to wrestle power over the last 50 years is by banking on the disenchanted middle aged white man with no money.
    Lovin Sprint, and the Pre.
  10. Micael's Avatar
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    #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    Libertarians should be VERY worried.

    KAM
    We are.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  11. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by Sharkims View Post
    Obama has taken this long to pass any rules, because of his need for bipartisanship. That's the reason the stimulus package was as weak as it was. Also why his attempt to push this health care system has taken so long, long enough to lose steam in fact. Now let's be fair here. The Republicans have offered NOTHING in the form of a health care plan. In fact they have been quoted as saying "we just have to stop him and make this Obama's Watergate.", so there is nothing to work with on the republican side.
    Pass any rules? What Rules are you talking about? He's used his pen to fund abortions in foreign aid as I recall, and tried to buy off his leftist supporters with declaring Gitmo will be closed.

    I think you mean Waterloo. Actually, I'm sure that Republicans have a variety of plans, they just have no outlet for them. Literally, they are shut out of the Procedure in the House almost completely--less so in the Senate.

    Weak Stimulus? If you mean wasteful and likely ineffective, then yes. That's what you get for claiming (idiotically) that Stimulus is simply spending.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sharkims View Post
    Not to mention the lies that are being spewed. It's disgusting to believe Michael Steel would go around one day saying that Medicare is terrible, and the government can't run anything. Then turn around and defend it like it's NOT run by the government. The same lies have been spread by Sarah Palin about death camps. And other various Republican leaders about "destroying the VA". Which BTW is friggen SOCIALIZED health care and it works. Oh also it can't be touch by this bill....
    I gotta agree with you on Steele--that just doesn't sell. Again, I think you mean Death "Panels" not death "camps."

    I'm not sure that the VA serves Veterans nearly as well as it should be. There are good and bad parts of it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sharkims View Post
    So no, as far as I am concerned he has gone farther than he should have in trying to rally the Republican leadership on any subject. That is the kind of childish insult, bully behavior that barely belongs on an Elementary School playground. Let alone in the leadership of this country.
    Lip service is too far? He's done nothing of substance at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sharkims View Post
    Do not mention Senator Kennedy. The man would back anything that was good for this country. A trait that will be sorely missed, and a vote that will be desperately missed.
    Do not mention him? Why not? That is a very strange statement. I mentioned a fact, making ZERO disparaging remarks. Take it easy there.

    KAM
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by Sharkims View Post
    Obama is actually rather centrist in his views. He is not a revolutionary, or a socialist. His platform of change was simply to get votes, in fact the only subject he cares at all about is health care. Unfortunately as a centrist he believes in uniting the country, instead of just pushing his will like Bush did on so many things.

    I could care less about his Cabinet, what they get paid won't even appear next to our Military budget.
    This is a good opportunity for me to ask for a definition. Call it a lesson on perspective.

    We heard Obama say he wants a single government-run health care program and that he wants to "spread the wealth" by taking from those who earn it and give to those who don't. He voted against a bill that would require doctors to care for babies that survived abortions; leaving them to die on a table, and that he has no problem with exercising control over the financial matters of businesses; approving of salaries.

    So if this makes Obama a "centrist," how would you define a left-winger? What characteristics define a leftist?
  13. KAM1138
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    #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by Sharkims View Post
    Under bush the tax rate was an an all time high. Over time the top tax bracket will pay less under Obama? Libertarians are foolish when it comes to their Tax views, and private vs public run organizations.
    What? What libertarian tax views are you referring to. I'm afraid that paragraph didn't make any sense to me. Can you slow up a bit please.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sharkims View Post
    Both sides have plenty of things in their pockets, and I have stated before. I do not approve of lobbying, or "donating" to campaigns. This has lead us to have NO choice in who runs for office, as the average guy can NOT afford it.
    So, people can't donate to politicians? Are you referring to Corporations? I'll tell you what--how about a compromise. They can't lobby and the government can't tax them. Corporate Tax is a fantasy--there is no tax that isn't ultimately paid by the citizens.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sharkims View Post
    Finally the Democrats have had this control before, they rarely do anything with it. So we will see, it's not looking to positive now.
    Democrats controlled the Congress for most of the last Century. Yes. Do you know why? Because the American Public doesn't tolerate leftist Leadership for very long--at least not in recent history. They change or they are kicked out of office.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sharkims View Post
    The reason the Republicans are so hated is the current senators and leaders are all idiots. They will scheme, and lie. They will blatantly lie to Americans about what is going on.
    Yes, I'm sure that is a Republican issue. No Democrat EVER schemes or lies, NEVER. Politicians aren't worth much in my view--to pretend it is exclusive to one party is silliness in my view.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sharkims View Post
    In fact the only way the Republicans have been able to wrestle power over the last 50 years is by banking on the disenchanted middle aged white man with no money.
    Wow, you are in your own little world aren't you. Where did you get your education if I might ask? Honestly, I think you've got some really crazy ideas in your head, but you seem sincere.

    KAM
    Last edited by KAM1138; 08/26/2009 at 04:22 PM. Reason: typo
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by Sharkims View Post
    [...] Libertarians are foolish when it comes to their Tax views, and private vs public run organizations. [...]
    And neolibs* are foolish when it comes to their tax views, and private vs public run organizations. Now what?

    * I think I need to trademark this word.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  15. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by zelgo View Post
    If you're worried about the power Obama is amassing, you really have to blame Bush. He and Cheney consolidated so much power in the White House that it threw the branches of government balance out of wack.

    Now, that a Democrat is in the White House, you're FINALLY complaining.

    Where were you for the last 8 years?
    I think you'd find, if you bothered to ask that many conservatives--specifically those of the libertarian stripe have been concerned and have expressed it, and haven't been particularly big fans of President Bush.

    You bring up a good point however. President Obama has continued to expand executive power in a variety of ways. So much for "change" huh? For a guy that ran on NOT being "4 more years of the Bush Administration" he certainly is eagerly continuing some of the worst policies of that Administration. They've wildly expanded the reckless spending of the last administration, followed a surge strategy in Afghanistan (I support this actually), extended TARP, expanded loans to auto companies and now actually own huge parts of them.

    For someone who spent 4 years whining and complaining about the Bush administration (instead of offering any solutions as a Senator) he sure is happy to continue those policies.

    The desperate actions of a Lame Duck President, crippled by a Democrat Congress (TARP) are the same policies that a news President expands at the height of his popularity and influence, and with his party controlling Congress. Pretty telling that he could have chosen to do any number of things, yet decided to follow in the footsteps of the guy he ran against (even though Bush wasn't running) in one of the most successful misdirections in politics.

    I wonder if the morons who bought into that lie have realized that they've been sold a bill of goods or are they just continuing to remain ignorant and be led around by the nose.

    KAM
    Last edited by KAM1138; 08/27/2009 at 08:46 AM. Reason: Additional point
  16. Micael's Avatar
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    #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by zelgo View Post
    If you're worried about the power Obama is amassing, you really have to blame Bush. He and Cheney consolidated so much power in the White House that it threw the branches of government balance out of wack.

    Now, that a Democrat is in the White House, you're FINALLY complaining.

    Where were you for the last 8 years?
    Man you got that right. Congress is way way out of wack. Good thing thats about to change come election day.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by zelgo View Post
    If you're worried about the power Obama is amassing, you really have to blame Bush. He and Cheney consolidated so much power in the White House that it threw the branches of government balance out of wack.
    To aid my understanding, could you provide the examples of how Bush amassed more power than allowed by the Constitution?
  18. Micael's Avatar
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    #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by semprini View Post
    To aid my understanding, could you provide the examples of how Bush amassed more power than allowed by the Constitution?
    He can't. But at least he openly admits that Obama is amassing power.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  19. #59  
    Pro American rights? Really now? Under Obama's government run and mandated health system you just gotta go his way or pay a tax along his yellow brick road. He will take away your rights to choose your own insurance - if you want insurance. He has taken away your rights on the local level of public education. The list is long what he has done and wants to do. He has taken away your rights to invest in a corporation and receive your investment back. The left is just to the left of the center line? Maybe so, but the leadership of the Democrat party is far left. As for the right falling off the chart 20 years ago - then why, on why are there more than double the number of people that identify themselves as conservative or liberal? Really now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sharkims View Post
    Obama is pro big corporations, pro taxing the weathly, pro single payer(not socialized healthcare), pro continuing our "war" efforts throughout the world, and pro american rights.
    The view of Right and Left in this country isn't really right and left. The "left" are just to the left of the center line. The right fell off the chart about 20years ago. To be progressive you just have to do something moderately leftist.

    Given a better option Obama wouldn't have been elected. McCain assured his success with Palin. heh
  20. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by theog View Post

    But I can tell this thread will be another Obama hate fest... lol

    Just like the other poster commented, bush got the same thing. It doesnt matter if you believe he "deserved" it. Because thats your opinion. We have the right to flame obama also, because it is my opinion along with a good majority of the country that he isnt doing much better. It makes me laugh to know you all got swindled by his campaign
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