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  1. #21  
    AT the expense of everyone else. Betcha like Semprini writes, once it is scrapped...
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    #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    Another sign that evil government intervention actually can work - I'm sure it'll be spun as a bad thing:

    GM raises production - Aug. 18, 2009
    Yes, government intervention in the housing... I mean, auto market will endoubtedly lead to an increase in sales of homes... I mean, cars, followed by an increase in production of homes... I mean, cars. This will also probably lead to an artificially inflated price for homes... I mean, cars as people buy more expensive homes... I mean, cars, that they could otherwise have afforded. I wonder if this kind of thing can lead to a bubble. Its too bad we don't have another example of the possible negative effects of government involvement in industry that we can look to.
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    Yes, government intervention in the housing... I mean, auto market will endoubtedly lead to an increase in sales of homes... I mean, cars, followed by an increase in production of homes... I mean, cars. This will also probably lead to an artificially inflated price for homes... I mean, cars as people buy more expensive homes... I mean, cars, that they could otherwise have afforded. I wonder if this kind of thing can lead to a bubble. Its too bad we don't have another example of the possible negative effects of government involvement in industry that we can look to.
    Am I reading this wrong or are you actually trying to suggest that gov't "intervention" lead to the collapse of the housing market?
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    #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    Am I reading this wrong or are you actually trying to suggest that gov't "intervention" lead to the collapse of the housing market?
    Hmm, now that you mention it, I think a good argument can be made that the AMTPA and certain HUD practices have contributed greatly to the collapse.
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    Hmm, now that you mention it, I think a good argument can be made that the AMTPA and certain HUD practices have contributed greatly to the collapse.
    You have just stated that deregulation contributed to the collapse, so now you're confusing me.

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    #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    You have just stated that deregulation contributed to the collapse, so now you're confusing me.

    More like differently-regulated. There were still federal regulations. With the AMTPA, the Fed just circumvented state consumer protection laws to allow nonfederally chartered lenders into the alternative mortgage game. And they did so purportedly in the interest of providing consumers more access to credit. Combine that with HUD's increasing incentives to make loans to people who weren't eligible for conventional loans and a corporate entitlement mindset caused in part by previous bailouts and you have a very large ball of risky debt that banks all over the world then bought into.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    More like differently-regulated. There were still federal regulations. With the AMTPA, the Fed just circumvented state consumer protection laws to allow nonfederally chartered lenders into the alternative mortgage game. And they did so purportedly in the interest of providing consumers more access to credit. Combine that with HUD's increasing incentives to make loans to people who weren't eligible for conventional loans and a corporate entitlement mindset caused in part by previous bailouts and you have a very large ball of risky debt that banks all over the world then bought into.
    I believe you are misconstruing the history. The deregulation of the housing loan industry is what lead to collapse. When mortgage brokers feel fine with putting down fictitious incomes on loan applications because no one will ever check and the bank making the loan doesn't have to care cause they're going to sell the loan any way.. that's Dodge City man. No sherrif in town.
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    #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    I believe you are misconstruing the history. The deregulation of the housing loan industry is what lead to collapse. When mortgage brokers feel fine with putting down fictitious incomes on loan applications because no one will ever check and the bank making the loan doesn't have to care cause they're going to sell the loan any way.. that's Dodge City man. No sherrif in town.
    Actually, I think that's over-simplifying the history. There were all sorts of regulations. In fact, falsifying incomes is still against the law. Now, whether anyone was enforcing the law is a different matter. If I had a nickle for every time congress passed a new law that would have been completely unnecessary had they enforced the old laws, well, let's just say I'd have quite a few nickles.
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    Actually, I think that's over-simplifying the history. There were all sorts of regulations. In fact, falsifying incomes is still against the law. Now, whether anyone was enforcing the law is a different matter. If I had a nickle for every time congress passed a new law that would have been completely unnecessary had they enforced the old laws, well, let's just say I'd have quite a few nickles.
    May be an over simplification but everything I've read and watched on the subject including what you just referred to a few posts ago, points to deregulation as the main culprit.
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    #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    May be an over simplification but everything I've read and watched on the subject including what you just referred to a few posts ago, points to deregulation as the main culprit.
    Deregulation is a myth. As I said, it's different-regulation.
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    I think memories are short about how close we were to Great Depression II. It just kills some people to give any credit at all to the current administration.

    How close we were...lol We are just as close as we ever were....Oblahblah and his band of thieves have done nothing but spend trillions of dollars we didn't have, and they haven't accomplished a damn thing.

    After spending billions on cash for clunkers...new car sales will plummet now that the program is coming to a halt, Oblahblah wants to spend trillions paying for health care for illegal criminals and people who are too busy blowing their money to buy their own insurance, unemployment is still going up. No new jobs are being created and the stimulus package was a joke.....yeah Oblahblah and his thieves are just the greatest thing since sliced bread.
  12. #32  
    Seems that those nasty neo-cons at the Associated Press are weighing in on the program.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
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    #33  
    I predict:

    1. The industry will increase production to a level that will outpace the short-lived boost and be left with excess inventory.

    2. Dealers will be left footing the bill for thousands of deals that didn't meet the governments complex criteria. Not to mention the cost of disabling the engines and transporting them.

    3. Low income people who can't afford new cars will get hit hard as used car prices increase due to the newly limited supply.

    4. Charities that depends on donated cars will report the lowest level of donations in their history.

    5. Tens of thousands of perfectly good cars like this will be destroyed.

    6. Within 10 years, if GM still exists, they'll be asking the government for another bailout.
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    #34  
    Another sad one.
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mastertech View Post
    How close we were...lol We are just as close as we ever were....Oblahblah and his band of thieves have done nothing but spend trillions of dollars we didn't have, and they haven't accomplished a damn thing.
    http://money.cnn.com/2009/08/20/news/economy/LEI_economic_index_recession_over/index.htm?section=money_latest
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    #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    http://money.cnn.com/2009/08/20/news/economy/LEI_economic_index_recession_over/index.htm?section=money_latest
    If this ends up being true, great job Bush admin!
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    If this ends up being true, great job Bush admin!
    That could be the funniest post I've read in months!

    I'm now convinced your entire persona is actually a parody.
    Everything's Amazing and Nobody's Happy

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    #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    That could be the funniest post I've read in months!

    I'm now convinced your entire persona is actually a parody.
    How would you explain it?
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    How would you explain it?
    I would explain that the greates economic collapse of our lifetime occurred under the previous administration's watch, and numerous measures were taken by the current administration to address it. But of course, when these measures have an impact, you need to give credit to the nonexistent efforts of the previous administration.

    It's ironic that the right gives the economic blame to Obama (although it occurred on Bush's watch), but give the credit to any recovery to Bush (although that happened on Obama's watch). Really silly, but if this delusion helps you sleep at night....
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    How would you explain it?
    He'd obviously explain it by claiming that any problems with the economy are Bush's fault no matter how recent or distant, and any credit for positive signs with the economy are to Obama's credit no matter how recent or distant.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
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