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  1.    #1  
    I just want to make an observation.

    If it turns out that the Anthrax is terrorism...and let's face it it is...then I see a very smart plan.

    1. They take down the airline industry...they essentially shut the whole thing down and almost caused its collapse...not to mention the delays it created...and at the same time tank the economy.

    2. Shut down the mail system by a) sending anthrax through it and therefore forcing the USPS and others to shut down while they examine EVERYTHING and b) making all of us afraid to open our mail.

    So...not so dumb these guys...

    What would you think would be next? Food? Water? If they wanted to create havoc and fear...they have done an excellent job.
    I saw that everyone else had a signature and I felt left out, so here is mine.
  2. #2  
    Originally posted by agraham999
    If they wanted to create havoc and fear...they have done an excellent job.
    I wouldn't call it havoc or fear... granted, we might be a bit on edge and much more concerned than we were a month ago, but we cannot be afraid. We cannot give in to these cowards. We cannot stop living our lives. We can and will get through this. This is the United States of America... land of the free and home of the brave. Never forget that...
    .
    .....
    MarkEagle
    .....<a href="http://discussion.treocentral.com/tcforum/index.php?s=">TreoCentral</a> | <a href="http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/index.php?s=">VisorCentral</a> Forum Moderator - Forum Guidelines
    .....Sprint PCS Treo 650
    .....God bless America, my home sweet home...
  3. #3  
    Such a sad state of affairs, wouldn't you say? This is just what they want. I suspect the water will be a very tempting target for them. Just a couple days ago they detained a couple of fellas of middle-eastern background who were asking questions about the Lewisville dam here in Texas. Appears they have no business here and have been staying in a $4 a night camp site. I don't know if they ever arrested them or not nor have I heard any more about the story. I am seriously considering going to strictly bottled water for drinking and eating. I know that won't necessarily save me but at least it is something I can do as a precaution.

    The main thing for everyone to remember is not to waste energy on blind panic, use that energy to be more aware of your surroundings and any suspicious activity. Unfortunately this will border on paranoia for some. This is a new era for us all.

    Teri
  4. Rob
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    #4  
    People (and the media) are blowing this out of proportion. Even if this is the result of terrorism, delivering anthrax through envelopes/packages is probably much less effective in terms of casualties than say mail bombs. Whenever there is a NEW threat, people will get scared and pay a lot of attention to it, and may even be whipped up into panic, but eventually they will get on with their lives. Something to consider before you break down and panic: over 45,000 people die every year from car accidents in the U.S. -- leaving the radio off when driving is much more likely to save your life than not opening your mail or getting on a plane. People need to calm down...there's only been one death reportedly due to anthrax, and yet people are treating this like it's the end of the world.
  5. #5  
    Originally posted by Rob
    People need to calm down...there's only been one death reportedly due to anthrax, and yet people are treating this like it's the end of the world.
    AMEN Rob!
  6. #6  
    I don't know, mailing anthrax sounds rather stupid to me. If I wanted someone, or a group of someone's, to contract anthrax, I wouldn't mail it. And if I wanted the mail system shut down, I wouldn't do it by mailing anthrax.

    To be honest, I'm not even completely sure this is terrorist activity (though I'm by no means discounting the possibility). Aside from the logistics of acquiring the anthrax, this sounds like something a couple of idiots from the local high school would do as a prank.
    Last edited by dick-richardson; 10/13/2001 at 11:59 PM.
    -Joshua
    I've decided to become enigmatic.
  7. #7  
    Originally posted by Rob
    Something to consider before you break down and panic: over 45,000 people die every year from car accidents in the U.S. -- leaving the radio off when driving is much more likely to save your life than not opening your mail or getting on a plane.
    Great point. Some issues won't die, but some will. For instance, people will still care about stem-cells, but who's gonna care about Temptation Island?
    -Bernie

    "One word sums up probably the responsibility of any vice president, and that one word is 'to be prepared'.
    -Dan Quayle
  8.    #8  
    Well let's just keep in mind a few things...

    While our gov't has been telling us from the beginning not to worry, and that it was an isolated incident...we've had 9 cases of anthrax so far since then.

    • We've had maybe 17 cases of anthrax in the past 100 years.
    • The last case was sometime around 1976.
    • People just don't get exposed to it, and it just doesn't happen.
    • The envelopes have come from multiple postmarks, including New Jersey and Florida. This is no teenager.
    • I think the fact that the first person infected and to die lived just one mile from where one of the terrorists visited crop dusters is a bit odd.

    Add up enough coincidences and you get a pretty convincing picture. I think a little paranoia can go a long way right now. It was in a large part our sense of security that led to the first attacks...and although I don't want to live our lives under the constant threat of terrorism...I'm afraid that you have to...because you will never get rid of every person who wishes us ill no matter how long this battle goes on.

    Our gov't wants to keep us from going into a panic...and although I understand that...we all know there is very little they can do to prevent these types of attacks from happening...but they won't admit it. How long was the unibomber out there? Terrorist may have been cultivating all sorts of stuff in this country for years. The "experts" tell us that there is nothing to worry about...since it would take some very smart and resourceful people to do that. I'll bet before the 11th we never though four airliners could be hijacked at once and flown into a building killing 6,000 people either? I think these terrorist proved that they are resourceful and smart.

    Sorry, but I think paranoia is the one thing that may actually help us in this time. Our gov't tells us not to panic...go about our business...and then at the same time tells us there will probably be more attacks in the coming weeks. If your looking for a bomb, you may miss the bio-agent they just dumped in your water.

    I'm staying home for awhile.
  9. #9  
    Originally posted by MarkEagle
    I wouldn't call it havoc or fear... granted, we might be a bit on edge and much more concerned than we were a month ago, but we cannot be afraid.
    Agreed. So far the Anthrax "attack" has been limited and isolated. Only one person has died, the other infected victims are being treated as we speak and will make a full recovery. As far as what further biological/chemical attacks will come in the future..who can say. But I know one thing. I'm an American, and I am going to face this "scare" standing on my feet...not cowering in fear. In time, this will all pass. We'll catch the bastards who are responsible and life will go on. I will NOT alter my lifestyle for these terrorists...which is after all exactly what they want.
    Last edited by foo fighter; 10/16/2001 at 11:39 PM.
  10. #10  
    Something to think about... President Bush has made two appeals to the children of the country to send donations to the White House. If this were such a wide-spread threat, do you think that would have been allowed? Granted, the White House mail room will probably look like an Area 51 test lab...
    .
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    MarkEagle
    .....<a href="http://discussion.treocentral.com/tcforum/index.php?s=">TreoCentral</a> | <a href="http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/index.php?s=">VisorCentral</a> Forum Moderator - Forum Guidelines
    .....Sprint PCS Treo 650
    .....God bless America, my home sweet home...
  11. #11  
    Originally posted by agraham999
    Well let's just keep in mind a few things...

    While our gov't has been telling us from the beginning not to worry, and that it was an isolated incident...we've had 9 cases of anthrax so far since then.

    • We've had maybe 17 cases of anthrax in the past 100 years.
    • The last case was sometime around 1976.
    • People just don't get exposed to it, and it just doesn't happen.
    I stated that acquiring the anthrax would prove difficult.
    • The envelopes have come from multiple postmarks, including New Jersey and Florida. This is no teenager.
    This is no individual, terrorist or otherwise.
    • I think the fact that the first person infected and to die lived just one mile from where one of the terrorists visited crop dusters is a bit odd.
    Something that an American anti-Arab group would be sure to notice as well.
    Add up enough coincidences and you get a pretty convincing picture.
    Which may not necessarily be true.
    I think a little paranoia can go a long way right now.
    I don't. Caution is wise, paranoia is cowardice.
    It was in a large part our sense of security that led to the first attacks
    It was more likely our relationship with Israel, Iraq and Iran, etc.
    ...and although I don't want to live our lives under the constant threat of terrorism...I'm afraid that you have to...because you will never get rid of every person who wishes us ill no matter how long this battle goes on.
    Which is no different than before Sept. 11. Remember Oklahoma?

    Our gov't wants to keep us from going into a panic...and although I understand that...we all know there is very little they can do to prevent these types of attacks from happening...but they won't admit it. How long was the unibomber out there? Terrorist may have been cultivating all sorts of stuff in this country for years. The "experts" tell us that there is nothing to worry about...since it would take some very smart and resourceful people to do that. I'll bet before the 11th we never though four airliners could be hijacked at once and flown into a building killing 6,000 people either? I think these terrorist proved that they are resourceful and smart.
    What are you proving?

    Sorry, but I think paranoia is the one thing that may actually help us in this time. Our gov't tells us not to panic...go about our business...and then at the same time tells us there will probably be more attacks in the coming weeks. If your looking for a bomb, you may miss the bio-agent they just dumped in your water.

    I'm staying home for awhile.
    You're incredible.

    Ben Franklin
    "Those who would give up essential liberties for a measure of security, deserve neither liberty nor security."

    Marvin Cooley:
    "We must pity the poor wretched, timid soul who is too faint-hearted to resist his oppressors. He sings the song of the dammed: "I can't fight back; I have too much to lose; I own too much property; I have worked too hard to get what I have; They will put me out of business if I resist; I might go to jail; I have my family to think about." Such poor miserable creatures have misplaced values and are hiding their cowardice behind pretended family responsibility - blindly refusing to see that the most glorious legacy that one can bequeath to posterity is liberty; and that the only true security is liberty."
    Last edited by dick-richardson; 10/14/2001 at 11:30 AM.
    -Joshua
    I've decided to become enigmatic.
  12. #12  
    Abraham mentioned:

    1. They take down the airline industry...they essentially shut the whole thing down and almost caused its collapse...not to mention the delays it created...and at the same time tank the economy.
    None of this is a direct reaction to what the terrorists did. This is all our doing. If we had had even basic security measures in place and/or had actually taken the time to seriously consider terrorism, then the airlines may well have never been crashed into the WTC.

    The economic downturn was just us being sheep. There isn't much of a direct correlation between a terrorist attack and stock prices diving. IMHO, at least.

    And PLEASE don't try and convince me that this was as bad for the airlines as they are making it out to be. Most of them were shut down for 2 days. If your business can not survive a shut down of two days, then your business probably shouldn't even been up and running in the first place. These ariline owners are just greedy bastards who were looking for an excuse to have huge layoffs and beg the gov for a 'bailout'.

    2. Shut down the mail system by a) sending anthrax through it and therefore forcing the USPS and others to shut down while they examine EVERYTHING and b) making all of us afraid to open our mail.
    How is that different than the Unibomber? Again, I think we are overreacting.

    So...not so dumb these guys...
    It doesn't necessarily take smarts to be a terrorist.

    What would you think would be next? Food? Water? If they wanted to create havoc and fear...they have done an excellent job.
    Actually, the MEDIA and our OWN GOVERNMENT have done an excellent job at vreating havoc and fear. Kudos must go to them first and foremost.

    • I think the fact that the first person infected and to die lived just one mile from where one of the terrorists visited crop dusters is a bit odd.
    People can find coincidences in just about anything. Work with facts, not coincidences.

    MarkEagle added:

    Something to think about... President Bush has made two appeals to the children of the country to send donations to the White House.
    I didn't hear about that. In what context was it? Bush is asking children for money? Ugh.

    ****-richardson mentioned:

    It was more likely our relationship with Israel, Iraq and Iran, etc.
    Yes! It seems to me that perhaps the first step in attempting to stop the fundamentalist muslim terrorists would be to STOP PISSING THEM OFF!

    Granted, it may be unrealistic to do so, but I've hear very little dialog in regards to that in the media.
    We're all naked if you turn us inside out.
    -David Byrne
  13. #13  
    Originally posted by homer
    Abraham mentioned
    Actually, it's Alan (agraham)...



    I didn't hear about that. In what context was it? Bush is asking children for money?
    He said it in his press conference Thursday night and again yesterday in his radio address. He was saying that the children of America who wanted to help could send donations to the White House for aiding the children of Afganistan.
    .
    .....
    MarkEagle
    .....<a href="http://discussion.treocentral.com/tcforum/index.php?s=">TreoCentral</a> | <a href="http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/index.php?s=">VisorCentral</a> Forum Moderator - Forum Guidelines
    .....Sprint PCS Treo 650
    .....God bless America, my home sweet home...
  14. #14  
    Originally posted by homer
    Yes! It seems to me that perhaps the first step in attempting to stop the fundamentalist muslim terrorists would be to STOP PISSING THEM OFF!

    Granted, it may be unrealistic to do so, but I've hear very little dialog in regards to that in the media.
    Yes that is unrealistic. The only recourse now is to KILL those responsible, on both a personal and national level, lest we encourage more "copycat" attacks.

    Besides, opening a "dialog" with terrorists is foolish. They would only see that as an act of cowardice on our part. When Barbary Pirates threatened American merchant shipping (and used extortion tactics on us) in the late 1700's, our response was to send our new fledgling Navy to the coast of Tripoli...and promptly kick their asses. The result: Our citizens and merchant vessels were never again threatened by pirates. As the famous quote reads..Millions for defense..but not one cent for tribute!"
    Last edited by foo fighter; 10/14/2001 at 12:16 PM.
  15. #15  
    Actually, it's Alan (agraham)...
    hehe. Sorry Alan. Typos can be quite odd at times...

    He said it in his press conference Thursday night and again yesterday in his radio address. He was saying that the children of America who wanted to help could send donations to the White House for aiding the children of Afganistan.
    Ah. Well, that makes a bit more sense.

    Yes that is unrealistic. The only recourse now is to KILL those responsible, on both a personal and national level, lest we encourage more "copycat" attacks.
    Killing isn't the only recourse. It never is.

    Not that I am against killing these people, but to say that there is only one option for remedying a particular situation is completely irresponsible.

    If we decide to kill them, then fine, let's kill them. But let's make sure that we fully explore the big picture of what it going on first.

    Did anyone see that PBS show 'Searching for Answers?' it was an excellent hour-long show that actually went into the explanation of the motives these people had for attacking us. I've seen little to no addressing of that subject from the (US) media as a whole.

    Besides, opening a "dialog" with terrorists is foolish.
    I wasn't referring to an open dialog with them. I meant amongst ourselves.

    The point is, we may have done wrong ourselves. We need to throw that into the equation as we attempt to solve the mess.

    But I digress...
    We're all naked if you turn us inside out.
    -David Byrne
  16. #16  
    I am reminded of the text-based game based on Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. If you mis-typed a command, you'd be treated to a discourse whereby your words were carried back across space and time and caused a giant, intergalactic war. Afterwards, you are cautioned to choose your words carefully.

    I never did figure out how to win that game.
    -Joshua
    I've decided to become enigmatic.
  17. #17  
    Originally posted by ****-richardson
    I never did figure out how to win that game.

    as an aside, here are some HHGTTG game-related links:

    Java based version of the Infocom game (because it's Java, you have to start over every time you refresh or revisit the page):
    http://www.nulldevice.net/infocom/hitchhik.html

    Pilot-Frotz, a Palm-based Infocom translator, is available here (last item on page):
    http://www.thezorklibrary.com/timeperiods.htm

    the data file you need for that is here:
    http://members.tripod.de/garage/Files/

    Since Infocom no longer exists as a company it would appear that no-one is claiming copyright on the data files (and, I've read that author Douglas Adams just wants the game to be played and his family lawyers most likely won't be hunting you down).

    A game solution is here:
    http://www-personal.umd.umich.edu/~n...es/hhgsol.html

    Game information:
    http://www.csd.uwo.ca/~pete/Infocom/hitchhikers.html

    Game packaging:
    http://infocom.elsewhere.org/dsincla...tg/hhgttg.html

    The Java-based version includes help, but the Palm-based one does not. however a helpful hint list that was included with the package (and the basis for the java help) is available here:
    http://www.ifarchive.org/if-archive/...clues/HHGG.inv



    boy, I do relish an opportunity to expose my vast knowledge of generally useless information, don't I?
    I now return you to your regularly scheduled Off Topic topic.


    learned the Geocities link for Frotz no longer existed; found an alternate and decided I should probably update this long-ago post
    Last edited by Yorick; 01/03/2002 at 03:25 AM.
    The light at the end of your tunnel has been disconnected due to non-payment. Please remit funds immediately for restoration of hope.
  18. #18  
    la la la .. long post ...

    Originally posted by agraham999
    If it turns out that the Anthrax is terrorism...and let's face it it is...
    If this were actual terrorism, why have only a few media outlets been affected so far? why hasn't every person in america with a valid postal address received a letter containing white powder? It seems more like a vendetta against the modern news media. I mean, the first incident was at the publisher of the National Enquirer. It's only been newspapers so far (the Sony thing appears to have been nothing).
    It likely safe to say someone's doing this intentionally but I really doubt it has anything to do with real terrorism.

    1. They take down the airline industry...they essentially shut the whole thing down and almost caused its collapse...not to mention the delays it created...and at the same time tank the economy.
    The economy will recover. The only airlines that had real problems were the ones that were already having financial difficulties. And we're still flying.

    2. Shut down the mail system by a) sending anthrax through it and therefore forcing the USPS and others to shut down while they examine EVERYTHING and b) making all of us afraid to open our mail.
    "Neither snow, nor rain, nor heat, nor dark of night shall stay the courrier from his appointed rounds." -- Herodotus
    I don't think any postal worker worth their salt will keep the mail from coming. They can't examine everything as you say; if the postal service opens anyone's mail it's a violation of the trust we as the public have with them.

    What would you think would be next? Food? Water? If they wanted to create havoc and fear...they have done an excellent job.
    I have more fear that our government has done the wrong thing to deal with this situation than I do about someone poisoning my water (which I filter anyway, and have for years) or food (which I do have a relatively full supply of, which is only because I actually had money to stock up with for once and did so because I hate going to the grocery store all the f'in time).
    If it's a large group doing this, there are easier ways to expose a large number to the disease. That the letters come from different postmarks doesn't mean it's a network either -- the Unabomber's packages were from different addresses too, all it takes is a bus ticket to have different postmarks. anyway, the earlier letters are postmarked NJ and the later ones St. Petersburg -- it's not like they're coming from all over. I think the sender is one or possibly two people and just relocated.

    Originally posted by Rob
    People (and the media) are blowing this out of proportion.
    as usual ... anyone notice how, since the attacks, we've not heard anything about Sen. Condit and that missing girl?
    There's a case of proportion blowing ...

    Whenever there is a NEW threat, people will get scared and pay a lot of attention to it, and may even be whipped up into panic, but eventually they will get on with their lives. <snip>
    there's only been one death reportedly due to anthrax, and yet people are treating this like it's the end of the world.

    yep. While I'm concenred, there's little I can do at the moment, not being involved in the investigation team, and I have more pressing personal concerns like how to get out of this jury selection notice (why they coudln't have summoned me while I was still unemployed, I don't know, but if I have to miss work now I have a number of creditors who aren't going to care that my local government wanted me to decide someone's innocence).

    Originally posted by agraham999
    How long was the unibomber out there?
    Theodore Kaczynski was out there for 17 years, but he was probably "out there" for much longer.

    Terrorist may have been cultivating all sorts of stuff in this country for years.
    as do most people who suddenly come to prominence. Jim Carrey didn't happen overnight ya know.

    Sorry, but I think paranoia is the one thing that may actually help us in this time.
    <snip>
    I'm staying home for awhile.

    considering how you reacted (with caution and concern) immediately after the attacks, I think you're now overreacting byu drifting into paranoia. People die everyday, of natural causes, of violence, of disease, or congenital causes ... you live, you die. You live in fear and you may as well already be dead.
    "The samurai knows when he is in danger, and when he is not."

    Originally posted by foo fighter
    The only recourse now is to KILL those responsible, on both a personal and national level, lest we encourage more "copycat" attacks.
    so, who's responsible? are we currently killing those responsible? how'd an Afghan goat framer get ahold of anthrax and mail it from St. Petersburg Fla.?

    Not that I know if Afghans have goats or whatever. I know very little about that country ... and it's that sort of lack of intercultural knowledge that creates this kinds of animosity.
    And that statement may not even apply in this situation. This may just be like the Serb/Croat conflict in the Balkans, which has been running hot-and-cold for about 200 years -- they simply hate each other because of what they are.
    The light at the end of your tunnel has been disconnected due to non-payment. Please remit funds immediately for restoration of hope.
  19. #19  
    Originally posted by ****-richardson

    I stated that acquiring the anthrax would prove difficult.

    [/i]
    Actually, i think i remember reading in the newspaper about a US company that markets pathogens, including anthrax, ove rhte internet. I believe they are located in VA. The hard part would be powderizing it, since the spores must be a certain size/weight - light enough to float in the air, yet large enough to stay in the lungs and accumulate.
  20. #20  
    Originally posted by Yorick
    [...] It's only been newspapers so far (the Sony thing appears to have been nothing).
    It likely safe to say someone's doing this intentionally but I really doubt it has anything to do with real terrorism.
    Well, there was the Nevada Microsoft office as well. Maybe it's another unabomber after all. There's a MS connection at NBC. Hmm...any connection with Microsoft and United Media? Maybe, it's a radical sect of Mac users? I've always thought those guys were ripe for a jihad.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
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