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  1. #1961  
    More views from outside our borders looking in: BBC NEWS | Have Your Say | Is Obama right about healthcare?

    I lived in the states for 7 years and this will be the toughest thing Obama has to do. Corporate America ,in particular HMO and Pharmaceutical companies, have become so powerful they practically own congress. They only possible way for the American people to fully understand the wonder of healthcare for all, is if that pathetic excuse of a media actually did their job and gave them honest impartial information instead of cow towing to political interference.

    Nicola Smith, Le touvet ,France
    What do you think of Obama's speech?

    Obama's speech on healthcare reform is for only American people. I don't think others need to worry on his speech at all. Don't make big fuzz about any and every thing American. There are many other things to bother than the storms in the US tea-cup.

    C. Sachidananda Narayanan, From India
    Why do we care about the US health sysytem, thankfully we don't have the same system here, United States fro all its wealth has millions without insurance , a travesty !
    My wife has a cousin in the US that cut her broadband connection and cable TV so that she could pay for her medicine..

    pedro m, london
    As a British citizen, who is provided with first class unlimited health care by the State from birth to death, I find the polarization of view points accross the Atlantic to be trully beweildering. Yes, a State run health service is beaurocratic, yes, many problems plauge it, from an ageing population, to over expectations from us, the users of the service, and money. However, if it was taken from us, there would be a social revolution. Why should anybody become bankcrupt just for becoming ill?

    Garry Harriman, Happy Valley/Goose Bay, Canada
    Democrats should be democratic in this issue. The majority of Americans want health care reforms but do want it the way the Dems insist. That's why they were scared of town hall meetings and are scared of coming elections.

    Either you convince the people or you bow to their wish. GOP bashing will not resolve the imbroglio unless the Dems admit that GOP controls the majority.

    Imma Okochua, Lagos, Nigeria
    Yes he's definitely right in trying to make the US a safer place for everyone. I'm from Sweden and for us nordic people it's beyond comprehension how wealthy people would rather pay lower taxes and know that people around them are dying because they can't afford to go to the doctor. I think healthcare should be a human right - as far as possible - and that in a country, everyone has to contribute to make this possible. I rather pay a high tax rate and know that my fellow Swedes stay healthy!

    Amanda, Malmö
    It all seems a bit pointless, doesn't it?
    I mean to say, does it matter how good or how widely available at a reasonable cost healthcare is if you live in a country that has 40,000 homicides through gunshots every year?
    It's just like trying to use wallpaper to repair the hole in the Titanic! America will not really have matured into a decent place to live until the gun laws are brought into line with the rest of the civilised world; and it is to that any president should devote his attention.

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  2. #1962  
    Hey....how dare you post anything that expresses opinions from other countries? You know they are ignorant, backwards, and just don't understand how really wonderful our health care is. We are always right, otherwise we wouldn't be America. How DARE you?
  3. #1963  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    Hey....how dare you post anything that expresses opinions from other countries? You know they are ignorant, backwards, and just don't understand how really wonderful our health care is. We are always right, otherwise we wouldn't be America. How DARE you?
    Well, it has been posted previously in this thread that other countries have higher satisfactions because they "don't know any better". Of course, American opinion is much more reliable....because it's American.
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    #1964  
    Quote Originally Posted by ArnoldAC View Post
    Simple question _ do you trust the government?
    The more appropriate question: Do you trust the same Big Pharma and Insurance industries (along with the lobbyists and politicians in their pockets) whose sole motivation is to produce profit and shareholder wealth to suddenly reform themselves before today's healthcare economics makes today's Wall Street failure look like a Sunday picnic?
  5. #1965  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    Hey....how dare you post anything that expresses opinions from other countries? You know they are ignorant, backwards, and just don't understand how really wonderful our health care is. We are always right, otherwise we wouldn't be America. How DARE you?
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    #1966  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    Actually, people are continuing to flock FROM America for care....750,000 and climbing every day.
    For uninsured or underinsured Americans, low prices make treatment in Asia an attractive option.

    Surgery in Thailand and Latin America can cost a quarter of its U.S. price, and JCI-accredited Wockhardt Hospitals offer open heart surgery in India for $8,500, compared to around $100,000 in the U.S. and $28,000 in the UK.
    But, of course, with Tort Reform those procedure cost figures will suddenly come within close proximity of each other. Right?
  7. #1967  
    Yes he's definitely right in trying to make the US a safer place for everyone. I'm from Sweden and for us nordic people it's beyond comprehension how wealthy people would rather pay lower taxes and know that people around them are dying because they can't afford to go to the doctor. I think healthcare should be a human right - as far as possible - and that in a country, everyone has to contribute to make this possible. I rather pay a high tax rate and know that my fellow Swedes stay healthy!

    I guess it's quotes like that which make conservatives hate Europe and bring on squeals of socialism. I don't mind paying a bit to help make sure no one goes into the poor house just because they get ill. I agree with that Swedish guy.
  8. #1968  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    I'm more favorable to the "private and portable" approach. Although I will say that I don't think it will be as simple as "prohibiting" insurance companies from cherry-picking subscribers and charging more for preexisting conditions. The bottom line is that health care for some people will be much more expensive than for others. One could say that the influx of new subscribers will mitigate this added financial burden, but many of those new subscribers will also come with preexisting conditions.
    The debate so far has been misplaced, IMO. The real first issue before any sort of cost discussions would have meaning is putting specific boundaries on what is being meant by universal coverage. IOW, we should first define _what_ is going to be covered under such a plan before we can move onto _who_ is covered. If we only settle for covering everyone for anything, there will be no cost savings of any real sort. If more people are making more 'preventive' doctor visits, it's a foregone conclusion that more people will be found to have something wrong with them, and treating them will increase expenditures.

    I realize this approach won't satisfy the 'Healthcare is going to destroy America if we don't get 100% coverage last week' crowd, but they're really no better than the 'Obama wants to kill your grandma with death panels' crowd. They're both fear-mongering in their own ways. AAMOF, their position could also be boiled down to 'Insurance Companies want to kill your grandma by dropping her coverage and making her move to Mexico'.

    I may not agree with the Healthy Americans Act in toto, but at least the people behind it are trying to come up with something meaningful that actually would seem to save money all around.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
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    #1969  
    Maybe I missed it. Did anyone mention the fact that Obama backed off on his "46 million uninsured Americans" remark in his latest speech? Now its "more than 30 million". Interesting. I wonder what it will be next month. Maybe if we wait long enough it will be whittled down to the real number of Americans who truly can't get insurance.... nah!
  10. #1970  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    Maybe I missed it. Did anyone mention the fact that Obama backed off on his "46 million uninsured Americans" remark in his latest speech? Now its "more than 30 million". Interesting. I wonder what it will be next month. Maybe if we wait long enough it will be whittled down to the real number of Americans who truly can't get insurance.... nah!
    The problem is the numbers are still coming in... at least obama is recognizing items are changing and not attempting to snow cone this thing...

    The other problem is that some people want to focus on such trivial changes as major issues... instead of moving forward and having an honest debate.

    Not sure most fully understand what is at stake here... or the fact that it IS going to happen, one way or another....

    When it passes, I can't wait to hear the republicans complain because a public option is not available... how obama failed. LOL... politics is good comics, long as you are not caught in the mess.

    Hopefully we won't pass some BS plan that does not cover all americans.... that is what the republicans want.
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    #1971  
    The numbers are important because they've been touted as the foundation for this new found urgency for the need of a public option. If the foundation is wrong, what does that say about the argument itself?

    Also, who do you think might be complaining about the lack of a public option if one is not included in the reform bill?
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    #1972  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    The numbers are important because they've been touted as the foundation for this new found urgency for the need of a public option. If the foundation is wrong, what does that say about the argument itself?

    Also, who do you think might be complaining about the lack of a public option if one is not included in the reform bill?
    Rather than providing your paraphrase, how about a link to the entire story or speech behind the "new" figure? Somehow, I suspect it would be illuminating.
  13. #1973  
    It is at or a little less than 2% of the population that has insurance problems.
  14. #1974  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    It is at or a little less than 2% of the population that has insurance problems.
    Then it should not be an issue to cover them. Problem solved. Thanks!!!

    Fact is I'd bet it is far more than only 2% who have insurance problems, if you count those on the fringe of having an issuance problem...

    And if you go into debt paying your insurance bill, I'd guess that is not an insurance problem... that is a debt problem... lol

    Spin, spin... spin... wheeeezzzzz
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    #1975  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1thing2add View Post
    Rather than providing your paraphrase, how about a link to the entire story or speech behind the "new" figure? Somehow, I suspect it would be illuminating.
    The White House - Press Office - Excerpts of the President's Opening Remarks at Tonight's News Conference, 7-22-09

    This is not just about the 47 million Americans who have no health insurance. Reform is about every American who has ever feared that they may lose their coverage if they become too sick, or lose their job, or change their job. It’s about every small business that has been forced to lay off employees or cut back on their coverage because it became too expensive. And it’s about the fact that the biggest driving force behind our federal deficit is the skyrocketing cost of Medicare and Medicaid.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/10/us...bama.text.html

    We are the only advanced democracy on Earth – the only wealthy nation – that allows such hardships for millions of its people. There are now more than thirty million American citizens who cannot get coverage. In just a two year period, one in every three Americans goes without health care coverage at some point. And every day, 14,000 Americans lose their coverage. In other words, it can happen to anyone.
  16. #1976  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    Actually, people are continuing to flock FROM America for care....750,000 and climbing every day.

    I just can't afford health care in my own country
    First...LOL....the source, CNN? If we use Fox as a source you guys go nuts. Anyway, that aside, I'll play....I have said, and if you say you haven't seen this in my posts doc, well, you're not reading my posts, but I have said doctors charge way too much and we should be reimbursing you guys and gals a whole lot less. So you apparently agree with that since the article says: " For uninsured or underinsured Americans, low prices make treatment in Asia an attractive option." I agree, our doctors in American charge way too much. Networks are trying to get these costs down, but doctors and hospitals fight the lower fees. Of course, they have to fight private insurance networks because they can't fight the low fees of Medicare. That is why many doctors continue to drop taking Medicare patients.

    The article that you apparently are pushing also says the following: "In countries with state-run health services, such as Britain and Canada, long -waiting times for surgery are encouraging patients to look overseas for a cheaper alternative to private treatment in their own country." I don't think I need to add much to that statement. But I'm glad you agree that this is a problem with state-run healh services.

    And palandri is correct, a lot of these procedures are cosmetic in nature (abdominoplasty) in which yes, insurance companies don't reimburse for most of those types of procedures, so, people will look for the least expensive route. I doubt a public option health plan will pay for cosmetic surgeries either so those folks will continue to travel abroad.

    So, while I do question CNN as a source, if you and palandri feel comfortable with that source, I think it promoted 2 important issues: doctors charge too much in the US and state-run health services cause long waits. Excellent article!
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  17. #1977  
    Quote Originally Posted by palandri View Post
    I'll soon be ready for the French Rivera!
    No big surprise there. No offense....but anyway we can help your retirement account?
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    #1978  
    Medical tourism may sound like an attractive option but there are obvious risks. And those risks are directly related to why medical care is cheaper in other countries. First, most, if not all, of these countries have lower standards of health care. That means you may or may not get the best quality of care. You may get good care but chances are the places you would get best care will also cost more. Second, if you're the victim of malpractice you may have no recourse in another country because they don't have the same malpractice laws, if they have them at all.

    Bottom line, there's a good reason you should not go to a country where you wouldn't feel safe living but expect quality health care. Safety costs money.
  19. #1979  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    Actually, people are continuing to flock FROM America for care....750,000 and climbing every day.

    I just can't afford health care in my own country
    In addition to the reference of these services being provided to Brits and Canadians who've grown impatient waiting in their own health care line, also note that these services are provided by what appears to be totally private entities.
  20. #1980  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    Medical tourism may sound like an attractive option but there are obvious risks. And those risks are directly related to why medical care is cheaper in other countries. First, most, if not all, of these countries have lower standards of health care. That means you may or may not get the best quality of care. You may get good care but chances are the places you would get best care will also cost more. Second, if you're the victim of malpractice you may have no recourse in another country because they don't have the same malpractice laws, if they have them at all.

    Bottom line, there's a good reason you should not go to a country where you wouldn't feel safe living but expect quality health care. Safety costs money.
    Maybe we can work it out so we can pay for Democrats to go overseas for medical treatment? I might can be talked into that plan.
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