Page 93 of 143 FirstFirst ... 43838889909192939495969798103 ... LastLast
Results 1,841 to 1,860 of 2855
  1. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #1841  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    Although....if something could suddenly happen to Bill Gates and Warren Buffet....the treasury could suddenly get a nice injection of cash under palandri's plan. The 2 top wealthiest men in the WORLD are democrats....good grief....what is this world coming to?
    Right--they would get that money...once. Once you've confiscated and spent all the wealth, THEN what do you do?

    KAM
  2. groovy's Avatar
    Posts
    941 Posts
    Global Posts
    955 Global Posts
    #1842  
    Quote Originally Posted by palandri View Post
    I think everyone should have to work for a living. Do you disagree with that? I think the starting gate should be equitable. It's not. Dreams of a rags to riches story is like playing the lotto, what are your chances? I believe a planned economy is better than an unplanned economy. What produces wealth? Labor.
    1. I disagree that the government should determine what everyone should have to do with their lives.

    2. I don't think the starting gate will ever be equitable because there will always be those with more money/connections. If it's not money, people will find other ways of creating an edge.

    3. If labor alone created wealth China would be the richest country in the world. Wealth is created by the utility of goods or services being provided. So wealth may or may not be correlated to the amount of labor required.
  3. #1843  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    Thank you for a truly knee-jerk emotional reaction. AAMOF, none of those would fall under his proposal (however tongue-in-cheek it may or may not have been). Note that he only said that those that truly couldn't afford it under his plan would receive those services at a donated rate. Everything else would stay as is. Revenue from those who were insured would continue at the existing rates. Why is his proposal any more absurd than any other universal coverage plan?
    My hospital provided $5 million dollars in uncompensated care last year. Without support from the state, it would have been closer to $7 million. You want to increase the $5 million, as I interpret the plan, and make it $7 million, since the hospital would be "donating" that care with no pass-through or reimbursement from the state. Is that not what you are proposing? That would mean lots of hospital employees would lose their jobs, and lots of services would be discontinued, regardless of what doctors were paid.
  4. #1844  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    Right--they would get that money...once. Once you've confiscated and spent all the wealth, THEN what do you do?

    KAM
    Yo Kam....I'm not really for this tax program....I'm all about allowing people to keep as much of THEIR OWN MONEY as possible. Palandri apparantly believes what we earn is the government's money, and they simply allow us to use a portion of it while we are alive. I don't believe palandri believes what he is saying, it's just too ridiculous and I think he is just trying to get us talking about it so he succeeded.
    PalmPilot, PalmIIIc, Treo 650, Pre, Pre 3, Nokia 1020, Lumia 950

    "It's good to be the King" - Mel Brooks, History of the World, Part 1

    "I would rather have a German division in front of me than a French one behind me." General George S. Patton
  5. #1845  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    ...As for that last paragraph....I think you're just going for one of palandri's "stir the pot" deals. That comment is so ridiculous you can't even begin to attack it. Holy cow.
    Inheritance tax is what got McGovern shot down when he ran.
    My Phone & My Wife's Phone Two Unlocked GSM Treo Pro's

  6. #1846  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    My hospital provided $5 million dollars in uncompensated care last year. Without support from the state, it would have been closer to $7 million. You want to increase the $5 million, as I interpret the plan, and make it $7 million, since the hospital would be "donating" that care with no pass-through or reimbursement from the state. Is that not what you are proposing? That would mean lots of hospital employees would lose their jobs, and lots of services would be discontinued, regardless of what doctors were paid.
    First off, it's not exactly my plan, although I do find it an interesting idea. Second, did your hospital pay any taxes last year? His idea involved allowing your hospital to deduct that $5-7 million. Your interpretations make me wonder.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  7. #1847  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    Yo Kam....I'm not really for this tax program....I'm all about allowing people to keep as much of THEIR OWN MONEY as possible. Palandri apparantly believes what we earn is the government's money, and they simply allow us to use a portion of it while we are alive. I don't believe palandri believes what he is saying, it's just too ridiculous and I think he is just trying to get us talking about it so he succeeded.
    If the 100% inheritance tax started at 5 million, how would it effect you? I don't think it would take a penny from you. The inheritance tax could fund a lot of healthcare cost. So why is it crazy? Who needs more than 5 million to start out with?
    My Phone & My Wife's Phone Two Unlocked GSM Treo Pro's

  8. #1848  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    1. I disagree that the government should determine what everyone should have to do with their lives.

    2. I don't think the starting gate will ever be equitable because there will always be those with more money/connections. If it's not money, people will find other ways of creating an edge.

    3. If labor alone created wealth China would be the richest country in the world. Wealth is created by the utility of goods or services being provided. So wealth may or may not be correlated to the amount of labor required.
    I understand what you are saying. I think they are good points, but I don't agree with them. Like I said, I think everyone should have to work for living. I think money creates an inequitable starting gate and it's really difficult to find other ways to create an edge. On your 3rd point. How much do we owe China? If you want to see something real spooky, the bank of China has started funding new construction projects in Chicago. I think China is going to take over the world.
    My Phone & My Wife's Phone Two Unlocked GSM Treo Pro's

  9. #1849  
    Quote Originally Posted by palandri View Post
    I think everyone should have to work for a living. Do you disagree with that? I think the starting gate should be equitable. It's not. Dreams of a rags to riches story is like playing the lotto, what are your chances? I believe a planned economy is better than an unplanned economy. What produces wealth? Labor.
    Oh, and yes I disagree with that to an extent. If you have money then it should be your choice whether you want to work....actually....if you don't have money it should be your choice.....but don't be asking me for any help if you are capable of working and just make the decision to sit on your **** for no apparent reason (not counting if you are unemployed due to a layoff or something like that or are disabled, of course).

    Just curious....what is the most you think someone should earn in this country? By the way....LOL....the starting gate equal? How the heck would you propose to do that....please expound on that....LOL....this should be worth a good laugh
    PalmPilot, PalmIIIc, Treo 650, Pre, Pre 3, Nokia 1020, Lumia 950

    "It's good to be the King" - Mel Brooks, History of the World, Part 1

    "I would rather have a German division in front of me than a French one behind me." General George S. Patton
  10. #1850  
    Quote Originally Posted by palandri View Post
    If the 100% inheritance tax started at 5 million, how would it effect you? I don't think it would take a penny from you. The inheritance tax could fund a lot of healthcare cost. So why is it crazy? Who needs more than 5 million to start out with?
    ROFL....liberal is tooooo kind of a lable for you. Who are you, or the government, to tell anyone how much someone should be allowed to keep? I may never get to 5 million but I don't believe in punishing success. By the way....LOL....ask Ted Kennedy's children if they are ready to give up all their inherited assets over $5 million, what a hoot.
    PalmPilot, PalmIIIc, Treo 650, Pre, Pre 3, Nokia 1020, Lumia 950

    "It's good to be the King" - Mel Brooks, History of the World, Part 1

    "I would rather have a German division in front of me than a French one behind me." General George S. Patton
  11. #1851  
    Even more crazy....and important....when are we getting the new 1.2 update for our Pre's?????
    PalmPilot, PalmIIIc, Treo 650, Pre, Pre 3, Nokia 1020, Lumia 950

    "It's good to be the King" - Mel Brooks, History of the World, Part 1

    "I would rather have a German division in front of me than a French one behind me." General George S. Patton
  12. 1thing2add's Avatar
    Posts
    6 Posts
    Global Posts
    8 Global Posts
    #1852  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    Should I respond to your insistence on this accusation by saying the same about you? Oh you're just politicizing it--on the opposite side. Wasteful.
    Holding obstructionists accountable for their anti-progress position does not equate to politicizing this issue. Let's get that perfectly straight. It's about time we had a president, of any political stripe, with the determination to fully address this financial nightmare. If you do not believe that we are all in this healthcare economic boat together, whereby the health and lifestyle of one has effected the costs of treatment of all for no less than a couple generations, then so be it. If you do acknowledge this reality, then it is only reasonable to expect you to also believe that it is up to every one of us to act constructively toward a proper solution.

    Well, I didn't create the thread title. If you believe my position is that there isn't anything wrong with healthcare economics you'd be wrong
    Of course, we don't hear disdain for the thread's title from those on your side of the aisle. Shocking!

    Anecdotal? The financial state of Medicare and Social Security are anecdotal? Exactly what "data" are you talking about. Where is your Data, evidence, etc? Its possible I've missed it, but so far, I've not seen much from you other than general agreement with the general Obama administration "plan."
    Let me get this right. You expect data from others when you have long provided none regarding the cost of providing healthcare to the uninsured/under-insured, either today or under any proposed plan from any source? You want data from others regarding the cost of administering Medicare/Medicaid when your baseless fear-mongering gets questioned? That's precisely what doesn't work that way.

    Here, I'll give you a hand. Last night, Obama laid out a plan which over 10 years will cost approx $900B, after taking approx 4 years to carefully implement. That much should be easily accepted as a proposal for argument's sake. How do Republicans compare that proposal to the hard-dollar and soft-dollar cost of doing nothing/maintaining the status quo over the same period? With what comprehensive plan have Republicans come to the table and proposed with a straight face? Without an apples-to-apples comparison, of plan vs plan and cost vs cost, this is nothing but very poor political theater.
    Last edited by 1thing2add; 09/10/2009 at 06:22 PM.
  13. #1853  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    ....if you don't have money it should be your choice.....but don't be asking me for any help if you are capable of working and just make the decision to sit on your **** for no apparent reason (not counting if you are unemployed due to a layoff or something like that or are disabled, of course).
    We agree!

    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    Just curious....what is the most you think someone should earn in this country? By the way....LOL....the starting gate equal? How the heck would you propose to do that....please expound on that....LOL....this should be worth a good laugh
    I am concerned about the ratio from the top to the bottom. I know we joked about Cuba the other day with a 3:1 ratio from top to bottom. That's too excessive to me. 100:1 would be more equitable than what we have now. I think teachers and doctors should be the highest paid professions to be honest.
    My Phone & My Wife's Phone Two Unlocked GSM Treo Pro's

  14. #1854  
    Quote Originally Posted by palandri View Post
    Isn't tobacco the main product produced in South Carolina? I once heard that if South Carolina was given all the tobacco taxes collected by the gov't, states and cities, for it's tobacco, South Carolina would be the richest place in the world.
    You are thinking of NC...
    01000010 01100001 01101110 00100000 01010100 01101000 01110010 01100101 01100001 01100100 00100000 01000011 01110010 01100001 01110000 01110000 01100101 01110010 01110011 00100001
  15. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #1855  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1thing2add View Post
    Holding obstructionists accountable for their anti-progress position does not equate to politicizing this issue. Let's get that perfectly straight. It's about time we had a president, of any political stripe, with the determination to fully address this financial nightmare. If you do not believe that we are all in this healthcare economic boat together, whereby the health and lifestyle of one has effected the costs of treatment of all for no less than a couple generations, then so be it. If you do acknowledge this reality, then it is only reasonable to expect you to also believe that it is up to every one of us to act constructively toward a proper solution.

    Of course, we don't hear disdain for the thread's title from those on your side of the aisle. Shocking!

    Let me get this right. You expect data from others when you have long provided none regarding the cost of providing healthcare to the uninsured/under-insured, either today or under any proposed plan from any source? You want data from others regarding the cost of administering Medicare/Medicaid when your baseless fear-mongering gets questioned? That's precisely what doesn't work that way.

    Here, I'll give you a hand. Last night, Obama laid out a plan which over 10 years will cost approx $900B, after taking approx 4 years to carefully implement. That much should be easily accepted as a proposal for argument's sake. How do Republicans compare that proposal to the hard-dollar and soft-dollar cost of doing nothing/maintaining the status quo over the same period? With what comprehensive plan have Republicans come to the table and proposed with a straight face? Without an apples-to-apples comparison, of plan vs plan and cost vs cost, this is nothing but very poor political theater.
    You're a good little soldier aren't you. You just keep to your little script, and keep repeating the talking points (obstructionist, fear mongering, you don't have a plan). Everyone who doesn't agree with you is fear mongering. Anyone who doesn't swallow the ruinous plans being pushed is an obstructionist. You must really enjoy pretending that you get to sit behind your keyboard and define the terms of the discussion. You don't define progress. You don't define what is proper. And you no longer to get waste any of my time with you posturing and accusations.

    KAM
  16. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #1856  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    My hospital provided $5 million dollars in uncompensated care last year. Without support from the state, it would have been closer to $7 million. You want to increase the $5 million, as I interpret the plan, and make it $7 million, since the hospital would be "donating" that care with no pass-through or reimbursement from the state. Is that not what you are proposing? That would mean lots of hospital employees would lose their jobs, and lots of services would be discontinued, regardless of what doctors were paid.
    Well, people probably will lose their jobs--its what happens when profit isn't there to support them. The goal is to provide sick people with medical treatment, so if you have to sacrifice landscaping (and hence gardener jobs) then that should be an easy choice.

    You might be able to cut some hospital administration jobs too--they aren't providers of healthcare, so they too are overhead. Undoubtedly, there would have to be a lot of changes made. With reduced profit a lot of non-essential things will have to be cut.

    OR, perhaps doctors can work extra hours, to compensate for the extra non-paying patients. That way the actual income level wouldn't be cut. This would be a do more with the same, rather do more with less--so that might allow you to keep administrators on the job--for example.

    KAM
  17. #1857  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    Well, people probably will lose their jobs--its what happens when profit isn't there to support them. The goal is to provide sick people with medical treatment, so if you have to sacrifice landscaping (and hence gardener jobs) then that should be an easy choice.

    You might be able to cut some hospital administration jobs too--they aren't providers of healthcare, so they too are overhead. Undoubtedly, there would have to be a lot of changes made. With reduced profit a lot of non-essential things will have to be cut.

    OR, perhaps doctors can work extra hours, to compensate for the extra non-paying patients. That way the actual income level wouldn't be cut. This would be a do more with the same, rather do more with less--so that might allow you to keep administrators on the job--for example.

    KAM
    Don't worry, bucko. Doctors already do work extra hours. Your sarcasm, rather than being irritating, is actually pathetic. Your attacks on everyone who disagrees with you stand out, as does your inability to grasp the obvious....that you and your ilk are obstructionist, with nothing worthwhile to contribute, and especially nothing worthwhile to say. Please, by all means....ignore us. I beg you.
  18. 1thing2add's Avatar
    Posts
    6 Posts
    Global Posts
    8 Global Posts
    #1858  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    You're a good little soldier aren't you. You just keep to your little script, and keep repeating the talking points (obstructionist, fear mongering, you don't have a plan). Everyone who doesn't agree with you is fear mongering. Anyone who doesn't swallow the ruinous plans being pushed is an obstructionist. You must really enjoy pretending that you get to sit behind your keyboard and define the terms of the discussion. You don't define progress. You don't define what is proper. And you no longer to get waste any of my time with you posturing and accusations.

    KAM
    Well, with that retort, you certainly make yourself perfectly clear, though not in ways you intended. That's certainly your choice.

    In this instance, fear-mongering is continually suggesting that 'X' is an economic failure, and by extension that anything else originating from the same government is condemned to failure, without providing the data to confirm the premise. Concluding that is just being reasonable, not difficult.

    And, by the way, the term "soldier" infers militance, which I am certainly not. If one is to have a dignified, informed discussion, it requires more than one party (or Party, in the big picture). No need to get frustrated just because you make it so plainly known that you unfairly compare apples to oranges while playing cheap, short-term politics.
  19. #1859  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    Even more crazy....and important....when are we getting the new 1.2 update for our Pre's?????
    This post makes things so much clearer. And I have no doubt you really believe that the 1.2 update for your phone is way more important than providing health care to people that don't have it. After all, once this thing is settled, you'll just go on to your pool. You won't have to deal with the consequences until someone in your family gets sick and the insurance company dumps on them. Oh, I'm sure you will say you were just lightening the discussion, being funny....guess what? You're not. And neither is the topic. It deserves better that you and Kam and the rest of your obstructionist buddies with nothing to add can provide. And that's exactly what will happen.
  20. groovy's Avatar
    Posts
    941 Posts
    Global Posts
    955 Global Posts
    #1860  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    This post makes things so much clearer. And I have no doubt you really believe that the 1.2 update for your phone is way more important than providing health care to people that don't have it. After all, once this thing is settled, you'll just go on to your pool. You won't have to deal with the consequences until someone in your family gets sick and the insurance company dumps on them. Oh, I'm sure you will say you were just lightening the discussion, being funny....guess what? You're not. And neither is the topic. It deserves better that you and Kam and the rest of your obstructionist buddies with nothing to add can provide. And that's exactly what will happen.
    I think they're providing their thoughts and opinions, which is all any of us can really do in a forum like this. I understand you don't agree with them or think they're just obstructionist but, believe it or not, there are people who strongly believe the health care reform plans currently under debate are a bad idea for the country.

Posting Permissions