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  1. #1681  
    Quote Originally Posted by palandri View Post
    Oh come on! You are making this out to be a conspiracy with the major networks.
    If it walks like a duck....and quacks like a duck....it's a biased media. I mean seriously palandri, even you must think it's funny that a major network sells T-shirts that say "yes we did" and what, 32 other Obama items? I tried to find Bush items at their store to show it wasn't biased, but either they've taken them all out, or, they were never there. Maybe someone can find that they used to have Bush/Cheney or McCain/Palin items there until the elections was over?

    Also odd that they would do a one sided pitch at the freakin' White House on Barry's side (what, an hour show? didn't watch it) but hey, let's not have a 30 second spot discussing the negatives of the plan. LOL They said it was too partison....really?.....and what is an hour long show at the White House? Crazy.
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  2. #1682  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    If it walks like a duck....and quacks like a duck....it's a biased media. I mean seriously palandri, even you must think it's funny that a major network sells T-shirts that say "yes we did" and what, 32 other Obama items? I tried to find Bush items at their store to show it wasn't biased, but either they've taken them all out, or, they were never there. Maybe someone can find that they used to have Bush/Cheney or McCain/Palin items there until the elections was over?

    Also odd that they would do a one sided pitch at the freakin' White House on Barry's side (what, an hour show? didn't watch it) but hey, let's not have a 30 second spot discussing the negatives of the plan. LOL They said it was too partison....really?.....and what is an hour long show at the White House? Crazy.
    Like any other business that sells Tshirts full time or part time. They are going to sell whatever there is a demand for related to news. It would be silly of them to have the shelves stocked with shirts that there wasn't a demand for.

    Why would a one hour ABC news special bother you when Fox News is the #1 rated cable news channel? Doesn't that mean that most people are getting the "fair and balanced" news from Fox News?
    Last edited by palandri; 08/30/2009 at 12:58 PM.
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  3. Micael's Avatar
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       #1683  
    Quote Originally Posted by palandri View Post
    Oh come on! You are making this out to be a conspiracy with the major networks.
    There is definitely huge support and selective reporting occurring on the major networks. Watching them is like watching some sick love fest. I wouldn't necessarily rule in or out some sort of "conspiring", but just the fact that they all are biased towards him makes a huge difference. You point that out about Fox all the time.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  4. #1684  
    Quote Originally Posted by palandri View Post
    Like any other business that sells Tshirts full time or part time. They are going to sell whatever there is a demand for related to news. It would be silly of them to have the shelves stocked with shirts that there wasn't a demand for.

    Why would a one hour ABC news special bother you when Fox News is the #1 rated cable news channel? Doesn't that mean that most people are getting the "fair and balanced" news from Fox News?
    Ohhhhh....it doesn't matter how it looks or if it is right, but rather all about money....I see. So, if they felt there would be a strong audience for porn videos, you would say go ahead and do it if there was the demand for it? I mean, it would be silly to not have those on the shelf, right? WTF?

    Despite Fox kicking their ***, a news channel...especially one that is suppose to be one of the top news outlets....should at least pretend not to be leaning one way. By the way....I went to the Fox "store" and nothing came up when I did a search for "Obama", "Bush", and just for fun, did a search for "Palin".....nothing came up. They only sell items relating to their channel and the shows they promote. Do you see the difference here?

    Also....it doesn't "bother" me....I've known for years they were slanted towards the liberals. It bothers me that people bash Fox for being slanted and don't seem to have the same outrage for the main media stations (ABC, CBS, NBC), and most of the other cable news channels (CNN and MSNBC), being slanted to the left.
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  5. #1685  
    Monsieur clemgrad, Bonsoir! Parlez-vous franšais?
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  6. #1686  
    Quote Originally Posted by palandri View Post
    Monsieur clemgrad, Bonsoir! Parlez-vous franšais?
    No I don't! I know many of you liberals feel quite comfortable speaking french, but me, I'll stick with basic English. That reminds me....I need to add my favorite Gen Patton quote to my list of quotes below! Thanks for the reminder!
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  7. #1687  
    Well how about PBS's the News Hour? I believe they have a pretty respected reputation for truly being fair and balanced.

    Here's their examination on a few of the hot button issues being waved about:

    Link(page has a link to watch the report):
    Separating Fact from Fiction in Health Reform Debate

    Coverage for illegal immigrants

    JULIE ROVNER, National Public Radio: There's no coverage in any of these proposals for people who are in the country illegally. Now, under current law, if you were in the country illegally, there are provisions for you to get care in an emergency room. That's considered a public health issue.

    You don't want people who are in the country running around with perhaps contagious diseases. And, again, you know, pregnant women in labor, no matter where they're from, there's certainly a humanitarian issue. You know, people who have dire emergency needs ought to get treatment.

    RAY SUAREZ: So, just to recap, under current law, illegal immigrants can receive emergency treatment, but they would not be allowed to sign up for any of the plans being debated. In fact, the language in the House bill says, "Nothing in this subtitle shall allow federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States."

    Fact or fiction: The Democratic plans will result in a government takeover of the health care system.

    Opposition to Democratic reforms has also come from those who say such plans amount to or could lead to a government takeover of health care. This has especially been true of protestors at town hall events this month.

    WILLIAM COSTRICK: It's dressed-down socialism. It's redistribution of wealth. They're robbing from one person to redistribute it to someone who they feel is more worthy.

    DONNA SMITH: The biggest concern is that the government will absolutely take over and make every decision for you, from birth until death.

    RAY SUAREZ: Such concern arises out of the much-discussed idea of a public option, a government-run plan that would compete with private insurers. But PolitiFact's Bill Adair says the government option is just a small part of the overall plan.

    BILL ADAIR, PolitiFact: The president has not proposed government-run health care. The president has proposed that three-fourths of the people roughly would keep their employer-provided private health care, the other quarter would go into a health care exchange, and one of the options in that health care exchange would be a public option, a publicly run health plan.

    Controversy over abortion

    RAY SUAREZ: Under the Democratic House bill, those who would qualify for the exchange include the self-employed and employees of small businesses.

    Fact or fiction: The Democratic plans will use taxpayer money to pay for women to have abortions. In a July 23rd op-ed in the National Review, House Minority Leader John Boehner wrote the Democratic health care plan would "require Americans to subsidize abortions with their hard-earned tax dollars."

    Adair says the issue is not as simple as either side makes it seem.

    BILL ADAIR: The goal of the Democrats is to have an abortion-neutral bill. The plans in the health care exchange could still provide abortions. It's just that, in the case of taxpayer money that was used for the public option to -- that would be used to pay for the public option, that its share could not be used to pay for abortion coverage.

    But that plan might still cover abortions. Theoretically, the abortion coverage in it would be paid for by the share that the patient paid for under this one version of the bill.

    So when Congressman Boehner said the president's plan subsidizes abortions, we rated that one false, because, as we read that bill, there are efforts to sort of separate it out.

    Debunking the 'death panel'

    RAY SUAREZ: Fact or fiction: The Democratic plans will allow the government to make decisions about when to stop providing medical care to the elderly.

    The idea that the government would make decisions about end-of-life care caught fire earlier this month after former Alaska Governor Sarah Palin wrote on her Facebook page that seniors and the disabled "will have to stand in front of Obama's 'death panel' so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment, of their 'level of productivity in society,' whether they're worthy of health care."

    The health bill pending in the House includes language that would authorize Medicare to pay for a beneficiary to consult with their doctor about whether to pursue aggressive and potentially life-saving treatments later in life.

    JULIE ROVNER: What's in the proposal says that there will be Medicare reimbursement for doctors to have conversations with seniors about end-of-life directives. Now, those end-of-life directives could be to say, "Do everything possible to keep me alive." It's certainly not about euthanasia. It really could be just exactly the opposite.

    And, in fact, in many cases, you end up with seniors or other people who are, frankly, not elderly being incapacitated, unable to communicate, unable to express their wishes, and having it fall on family members who honestly don't know what those people's wishes are. So you end up, perhaps, with plugs being pulled on people wrongly. So this really is just really the antithesis of death panels.

    Counting the uninsured

    RAY SUAREZ: Fact or fiction: There are 46 million Americans who do not have health insurance.

    Another point of contention that is not as hotly debated is the actual number of uninsured Americans. President Obama often cites the Census Bureau's statistic, 46 million. But one projection from the conservative think-tank Pacific Research Institute puts the number as low as 8 million, after subtracting illegal immigrants, those who can afford insurance, but choose not to buy it, and those who qualify for a government plan, but aren't currently enrolled.

    BILL ADAIR: I don't think it's as low as 8 million. I mean, from what we've seen, the experts we've talked to, the surveys that we've looked at from the Census Bureau, you know, it's probably -- the Census Bureau's number is, I think, the one that we have put the most stock in. That seems to be the most reliable. And when you back out the number of non-citizens, it's probably accurate to say that about 36 million Americans are uninsured.

    RAY SUAREZ: NPR's Rovner says arriving at an accurate count is not as clear cut as the president or his critics would like it to be.

    JULIE ROVNER: Yes and no. Well, the first thing you can't do is simply subtract people who are in the country illegally, because a number of those people, it turns out, do have health insurance. A lot of them have Social Security numbers that they've obtained illegally, and therefore they have their own health insurance, so you can't just subtract 12 million people who are here illegally.

    A lot of people don't have employer-provided health insurance. They may not work enough hours to get it or they may not be able to afford it on the wages that they make, even if they are eligible for it.

    A lot of people may be eligible for public insurance, but they may not know it or they may be afraid to sign up for it. They may be here -- they may be immigrants who are here legally but they may be frightened of the system. So it's not quite as simple as it seems.
  8. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #1688  
    Quote Originally Posted by theog View Post
    Well, I guess his solution is to say the hell with the 15% and let them struggle.
    Would you prefer to mess up what the other 85% have in order to "help" the 15%--even though we are already spending 300 billion a year on Medicaid? How about we leave what works alone, reforming things step by step, and asking where that 300 billion is going and why it isn't enough to help those who need it.

    Quote Originally Posted by theog View Post
    Republicans are doing nothing but rushing obama into a second term.
    Its so funny that you say that because the exact opposite is true if you look at the polling, which is showing a fairly steady decline for Obama--and people in increasing numbers are not liking this so-called "reform."
    I can't say what will happen in the future, but it sure as heck isn't helping him now.

    KAM
  9. KAM1138
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    #1689  
    Quote Originally Posted by palandri View Post
    Oh come on! You are making this out to be a conspiracy with the major networks.
    No, its not a conspiracy--that would require an attempt to keep this a secret. The major networks' bias is right out there in the open. They don't report news--they simply repeat the talking points of the Obama administration for the most part.

    We have no Watchdog Media anymore. Citizens are on their own now.

    KAM
  10. #1690  
    Then why are his poll numbers so low? Really it is the democrat party doing it to themselves. People are waking up to what is being shoved around.

    Quote Originally Posted by theog View Post
    His comments messed up nothing... another rant from someone who has nothing better to offer.

    Well, I guess his solution is to say the hell with the 15% and let them struggle. If that is what Republicans want to do, fine. The heck with the poor... heck with the middle class person who loses everything due to health care costs (and then fall within the 15%)... heck with those who must choose which meds to buy or decide on meds or food... oh, well...

    Maybe this guy should be focused on that REPUBLICAN disaster he has going on in SC right now. Cry me a river... or is it Argentina?

    Republicans are doing nothing but rushing obama into a second term.
  11. #1691  
    How would you describe it? What would you call it if it were the other way around? We know. Conspiracy in all caps.

    Quote Originally Posted by palandri View Post
    Oh come on! You are making this out to be a conspiracy with the major networks.
  12. Micael's Avatar
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       #1692  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    Well how about PBS's the News Hour? I believe they have a pretty respected reputation for truly being fair and balanced.

    Here's their examination on a few of the hot button issues being waved about:
    It was amazing how they could prop up each issue in just the right way so it could be easily debunked.

    For instance, the "death panels" debate was corralled by the left and reduced to a focus on the discussion around end of life counselling. It started out a broader focus than that. Much broader. It's a neat trick to do.

    The debate is more centered around the panel of "healthcare experts" that Obama will "select" (and who will have to go through some vetting through congress I assume). This panel will look at data and decide who gets what treatment, and when - based on patient demographics, procedure success rates, material and specialist availability.

    So these panels will be making decisions that will effect many of our seniors, and at the very least, will impact thier quality of life, and at worse, hasten their demise.

    I like PBS, daThomas... but they're hardly fair and balanced, unless you call one comment for the right's point of view for every 5 comments of the lefts, fair and balanced. I don't. Impressive post, though. Thanks.
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  13. groovy's Avatar
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    #1693  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    Well how about PBS's the News Hour? I believe they have a pretty respected reputation for truly being fair and balanced.

    Here's their examination on a few of the hot button issues being waved about:
    I saw that episode too. I thought the logic was terribly strained on a few points. For example:


    Controversy over abortion

    RAY SUAREZ: Under the Democratic House bill, those who would qualify for the exchange include the self-employed and employees of small businesses.

    Fact or fiction: The Democratic plans will use taxpayer money to pay for women to have abortions. In a July 23rd op-ed in the National Review, House Minority Leader John Boehner wrote the Democratic health care plan would "require Americans to subsidize abortions with their hard-earned tax dollars."

    Adair says the issue is not as simple as either side makes it seem.

    BILL ADAIR: The goal of the Democrats is to have an abortion-neutral bill. The plans in the health care exchange could still provide abortions. It's just that, in the case of taxpayer money that was used for the public option to -- that would be used to pay for the public option, that its share could not be used to pay for abortion coverage.

    But that plan might still cover abortions. Theoretically, the abortion coverage in it would be paid for by the share that the patient paid for under this one version of the bill.

    So when Congressman Boehner said the president's plan subsidizes abortions, we rated that one false, because, as we read that bill, there are efforts to sort of separate it out.
    That just plain doesn't make sense. I was confused the first time I heard it and reading it still doesn't shed any light.

    And this:

    RAY SUAREZ: NPR's Rovner says arriving at an accurate count is not as clear cut as the president or his critics would like it to be.

    JULIE ROVNER: Yes and no. Well, the first thing you can't do is simply subtract people who are in the country illegally, because a number of those people, it turns out, do have health insurance. A lot of them have Social Security numbers that they've obtained illegally, and therefore they have their own health insurance, so you can't just subtract 12 million people who are here illegally.
    ...
    A lot of people may be eligible for public insurance, but they may not know it or they may be afraid to sign up for it. They may be here -- they may be immigrants who are here legally but they may be frightened of the system. So it's not quite as simple as it seems.[/FONT]
    Immigrants here legally but frightened of the system??? Give me a break. And how twisted is this logic? You can't necessarily count illegal immigrants as part of the supposed 47 million uninsured who may benefit illegally from the public plan because many of them already get insurance illegally? Huh? Oh, and those are the same people who are going to answer a telephone poll that asks if they're insured honestly?

    I didn't think that story was very unbiased.
  14. #1694  
    Are they showing these unruly democrat protestors on the liberal stations (which means all stations other than Fox)? I don't watch those stations, but apparently there are more unruly democrats storming town halls causing trouble and just wondered if they were being shown on the other channels. I would hope so....but I would guess not.
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  15. #1695  
    On the abortion issiue, Mazzie Horino, one of our fine Democrat legislatures here in a town hall meeting in Maui (refused to do one on Oahu, the main island), stated that abortions were not covered under the program. Dang shame she does not read the newspaper, listen to what other Democrat people say and DOES NOT READ THE PROPOSED AND APPROVED LEGISLATION!

    Just words. Anything to play and prop up the party of the stupid people.

    Just words.
  16. #1696  
    I've mentioned this before....but just experienced it again. Was at a business and we were discusing their health insurance plan. Last year they went from paying 100% of the employee cost, to having the employee pay $25 per month....yes....per month. Good deal, huh? Well, apparently not. They had a number of people drop their coverage because they didn't want to spend $25 on their health coverage.

    So.....when someone doesn't want to spend $25 per month for their healthcare....why....why....why should I be asked to provide them benefits? Oh I know the arguement, because if they go to the hospital, and the hospital treats them, then we end up paying for it anyway. Well I'm sorry, people have to be willing to help themselves before I'll bend over for Barry to make his socialistic dream a reality.

    This confirms polls that when asked if they'd like a public plan the answers are often high on the affirmative. But, when asked if they are willing to pay something for it, the affirmative answers go down. People just want FREE health coverage while 85% of us are willing to pay as we go along. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
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    #1697  
    Something just dawned on me that I thought was quite ironic. Do you know who will get free health care, regardless of reform, for the rest of his life?


    Bernard Madoff.
  18. #1698  
    And that just plain bites. He needs to purchase a jail cell condo, pay maintenance fees and park his cane 75 feet from his cell.
  19. #1699  
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  20. #1700  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    People just want FREE health coverage while 85% of us are willing to pay as we go along. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
    More than that: people want OTHERS to pay for them to have health insurance.

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