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  1. groovy's Avatar
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    #1521  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    France? I'll stick with my favorite Gen. George Patton quote: "I would rather have a German division in front of me than a French one behind me."

    Oh....and before I get reported for bashing the french, unfortunately, my ancestors came from there (grrrrrr) so I am allowed to be critical of them.
    You and most of America. But I like to think we got our fighting spirit from the Irish in us.
  2. #1522  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    LOL Well, at this point, I'm beyond trying to rationally discuss it with anyone. Too many appeals to emotion and people trying to tell me that I just don't understand the issue since I disagree with their position. I had a reply prepared to one of these "Oh, you just wait and see and you'll be thankful for Medicare" which was lost when the thread was closed. C'est la vie. Sorry, but emotional appeals and raising the specter of fear and my own ignorance aren't effective arguments.
    That's one thing I agree with you about for sure. It's a useless effort.
  3. #1523  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    That's one thing I agree with you about for sure. It's a useless effort.
    Except that it wouldn't be useless if you would acknowledge that you don't have more answers than anyone else.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  4. #1524  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    You and most of America. But I like to think we got our fighting spirit from the Irish in us.
    The French get a bad rap. My ancestors (at least the bulk of them) wound up here since they refused to swear allegiance to the British crown since they'd have rather been left alone to themselves and didn't want to be bound to fight their former countrymen. They wanted to just be left in peace and find their own way (which in most cases included mingling with the Mi'kmaq). So, they wound up being cast to the winds. Their descendants wound up holing up in the swamps and bayous and mingling with the Biloxi, Houmas, and Chitimachas. That little dictator sold us to the US to expand its territory, but as wound up being the case for the longest time and really still today, other than what they could take politically and economically from New Orleans, the Mississippi River, and the Gulf Coast, they really can't be bothered with anything else.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  5. #1525  
    Davidra I have some questions for you. Would you please answer them truthfully if you choose to respond? This is an attempt to better understand your views on things. This information will be used to formulate a response not an attack.

    Anyone else who wishes to answer these may do so. It might just be interesting.

    1. Do you pay taxes?
    2. Do you think you pay enough taxes?
    3. Do you give to charity? (not dropping clothes at Good Will, writing checks to a charity)
    4. Do you have a family?
    5. Are you satisfied with your income?
    6. Are you satisfied with your standard of living?
    7. How many children have you adopted?
    8. How many homeless people have you given residence to?
    9. How many times have you paid for someone else's groceries? The whole cart not just the change they were short.
    10. How many times have you paid for someone else's rent?
    11. If you have children, do you or your spouse clean their rooms?
    12. How much of your income would you sacrifice to help others?
    a. 10%
    b. 25%
    c. 50%
    13. If I showed up at your door on every payday and demanded any of the above percentages and told you I would use the money to take a homeless child to the doctor would you give it to me without question?
    14. If someone offers you something for free do you accept it?
    15. Do you question whether it really is free or do you just accept that it is?
    16. Do you think you are responsible?
    17. Do you consult your spouse (if you have one) when making money related decisions?
    18. If your spouse (if you have one) disagrees with you about money do you think them stupid?
    19. Do you like the color green?
    20. How many fingers do you have on your right hand?

    Just some random stuff I threw together to give is some insight on how folks think. Anyone brave enough?
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  6. #1526  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof View Post
    Davidra I have some questions for you. Would you please answer them truthfully if you choose to respond? This is an attempt to better understand your views on things. This information will be used to formulate a response not an attack.

    Anyone else who wishes to answer these may do so. It might just be interesting.
    I'll give it a go...
    1. Do you pay taxes?
    Yes.
    2. Do you think you pay enough taxes?
    I think I pay too much in taxes in total, but I think that some of the things I pay for in taxes I would pay more were they utilized more intelligently.
    3. Do you give to charity? (not dropping clothes at Good Will, writing checks to a charity)
    I give in the ways that I can. I probably gave more in my last job since my employer had a structure where they facilitated giving a certain portion of one's salary per day (x number of minutes). They would then direct it to the charit(y/ies) of one's choosing.
    4. Do you have a family?
    Yes.
    5. Are you satisfied with your income?
    Yes and no. I make a good living, but would obviously be able to do more for my family and community if I made more.
    6. Are you satisfied with your standard of living?
    Yes.
    7. How many children have you adopted?
    None. I'm still paying off the natural one.
    8. How many homeless people have you given residence to?
    Not counting family and friends, none.
    9. How many times have you paid for someone else's groceries? The whole cart not just the change they were short.
    Not exactly the same, but just paid for my neighbor's supper.
    10. How many times have you paid for someone else's rent?
    Directly, none.
    11. If you have children, do you or your spouse clean their rooms?
    Not any more. A child should be able to clean their own room at least by 7 or 8 (and should be able to participate well before then).
    12. How much of your income would you sacrifice to help others?
    a. 10%
    b. 25%
    c. 50%
    It would depend on the other, and how much of my income was already being 'sacrificed'.
    13. If I showed up at your door on every payday and demanded any of the above percentages and told you I would use the money to take a homeless child to the doctor would you give it to me without question?
    No. After the first couple pay days, I'd greet you armed.
    14. If someone offers you something for free do you accept it?
    Not usually.
    15. Do you question whether it really is free or do you just accept that it is?
    Neither. TANSTAAFL.
    16. Do you think you are responsible?
    I know I'm responsible.
    17. Do you consult your spouse (if you have one) when making money related decisions?
    Yes.
    18. If your spouse (if you have one) disagrees with you about money do you think them stupid?
    No. If I thought her stupid, I'd not have married her.
    19. Do you like the color green?
    Yes, but it's not my favorite color.
    20. How many fingers do you have on your right hand?
    Five.
    Just some random stuff I threw together to give is some insight on how folks think. Anyone brave enough?
    Obviously.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  7. #1527  
    Toby I knew I would enjoy your responses. Thanks for playing.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  8. #1528  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post

    Its not what she said, or what factcheck says, or about the price of tea in london, or china.... stay with me here.... it's about what Ezekiel Emanuel says, wrote, etc. Capiche?
    I'm not concerned with her allegations, I'm concerned with what Emmanuel stated, wrote, etc. It's what's not in the bill(s) that concerns us. Your factcheck.org link doesn't invalidate that.
    By the way, I lost track of that issue - you know, between work and general lack of interest in discussing facts with folks who don't care about them.

    While my factcheck.org link doesn't invalidate your McCaughey's Emmanual assertion, this one clearly does: ‘Deadly Doctor’? | FactCheck.org

    You're welcome!

    Last edited by Bujin; 08/21/2009 at 10:53 PM.
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  9. groovy's Avatar
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    #1529  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    The French get a bad rap. My ancestors (at least the bulk of them) wound up here since they refused to swear allegiance to the British crown since they'd have rather been left alone to themselves and didn't want to be bound to fight their former countrymen. They wanted to just be left in peace and find their own way (which in most cases included mingling with the Mi'kmaq). So, they wound up being cast to the winds. Their descendants wound up holing up in the swamps and bayous and mingling with the Biloxi, Houmas, and Chitimachas. That little dictator sold us to the US to expand its territory, but as wound up being the case for the longest time and really still today, other than what they could take politically and economically from New Orleans, the Mississippi River, and the Gulf Coast, they really can't be bothered with anything else.
    Hey, credit where credit's due. The French influence in the culture and food of the southeast is undeniable. Come to think of it, pack up a peace maker, a muffaletta, some red beans and rice and send it my way, would ya?
  10. #1530  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof View Post
    Davidra I have some questions for you. Would you please answer them truthfully if you choose to respond? This is an attempt to better understand your views on things. This information will be used to formulate a response not an attack.

    Anyone else who wishes to answer these may do so. It might just be interesting.

    1. Do you pay taxes?
    2. Do you think you pay enough taxes?
    3. Do you give to charity? (not dropping clothes at Good Will, writing checks to a charity)
    4. Do you have a family?
    5. Are you satisfied with your income?
    6. Are you satisfied with your standard of living?
    7. How many children have you adopted?
    8. How many homeless people have you given residence to?
    9. How many times have you paid for someone else's groceries? The whole cart not just the change they were short.
    10. How many times have you paid for someone else's rent?
    11. If you have children, do you or your spouse clean their rooms?
    12. How much of your income would you sacrifice to help others?
    a. 10%
    b. 25%
    c. 50%
    13. If I showed up at your door on every payday and demanded any of the above percentages and told you I would use the money to take a homeless child to the doctor would you give it to me without question?
    14. If someone offers you something for free do you accept it?
    15. Do you question whether it really is free or do you just accept that it is?
    16. Do you think you are responsible?
    17. Do you consult your spouse (if you have one) when making money related decisions?
    18. If your spouse (if you have one) disagrees with you about money do you think them stupid?
    19. Do you like the color green?
    20. How many fingers do you have on your right hand?

    Just some random stuff I threw together to give is some insight on how folks think. Anyone brave enough?
    Kind of pointless since you have determined what you consider to be culturally and politically positive behaviors, but sure, I'll play. Then I'll add a question of my own.

    1. Yes
    2. Depends on whether or not we have a universal health plan. If we don't, then no, I don't pay enough taxes.
    3. United Way, local homeless shelter, vet med shelter program, Humane Society, many others.
    4. Wife and two grown children
    5. Yes
    6. Yes
    7. None
    8. Over many years, two that I can recall
    9. Probably none, although I've given cash to people in our clinic on numerous occasions. I can't guantee that I've paid for their entire cart. Absurdly worded question, though.
    10. None that I can recall
    11. We did not.
    12. Depends on what you mean "to help others". If you mean to liberate a country that shouldn't have been invaded, not much. If you mean to provide health care to people that don't have it, probably between 35 and 50%. Again, absurdly worded question.
    13. Probably not, because I would see the child myself, or arrange for the child to be seen.
    14. Depends on whether it's an attempt to buy influence, such as from a pharmaceutical company.
    15. Depends. Ridiculous question.
    16. Yes.
    17. As my spouse is a CPA, it's more like she consults me.
    18. No. More likely consider myself stupid if it has to do with taxes.
    19. Plus/minus.
    20. Last time I looked, four and a thumb.

    Now just one question for you:

    How much time per month do you spend working with or for needy people in your community?
    Last edited by davidra; 08/22/2009 at 06:25 AM.
  11. #1531  
    What the hell does this have to do with the pre?????
  12. #1532  
    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalMario View Post
    What the hell does this have to do with the pre?????
    Nothing, it's the off topic section.
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  13. #1533  
    Even though I'm totally opposed to a federal healthcare program, the part that amazes me is how this country just throws money around. People say, "oh, it's only 1 million...or only 100 million.....or only 1 billion", but if we add up all these "it's only" it makes for a large amount of money.

    The latest crazy thing is Obama is going to loan Brazil's state-owned oil company, Petrobras, 2 billion dollars (it's only 2 billion) for offshore exploration for oil! WTF? First, why are we lending 2 billion to the 7th largest company in the world (might need to check that number, I heard it, but didn't verify their ranking)? Second, why are we lending this money to a foreign company. And third, why don't we explore for oil off our own shore with American companies? Holy

    Again, I know what liberals will say, 2 billion is a drop in the bucket, why worry about it? Well, as the Congress and Obama seem intent on this public health plan, couldn't this money be for this? Whatever happened with the $700 million to save the wild horses? Is that still being pursued? I mean come on people....liberals, conservatives, whoever you are....when are we going to learn that we don't have the money for all this BS?

    Why is it that me and all my friends are talking about cutting back on this, or cutting back on that, because things are a little tighter, and yet our government just continues to spend as if they were printing money....oh....wait....I think I just answered my question. Well this can't be good, can it?

    This country is so ed up. I just don't understand this idea that we can continue to go in debt. As for the war....bring them home....I honestly just don't give a any more about other countries. I understand the ramifications of completely pulling out...but they don't want us there...and we just don't have the money for this anymore. What the hell is going on????
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  14. #1534  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post

    The latest crazy thing is Obama is going to loan Brazil's state-owned oil company, Petrobras, 2 billion dollars (it's only 2 billion) for offshore exploration for oil! WTF? First, why are we lending 2 billion to the 7th largest company in the world (might need to check that number, I heard it, but didn't verify their ranking)? Second, why are we lending this money to a foreign company. And third, why don't we explore for oil off our own shore with American companies? Holy
    The purpose of this is, as has been the established practice in our government, to loan Brazil money, which (a) they will pay back with interest - they have a very good credit rating - and (b) is designed to enhance American business, via trade with Brazil. This includes oil, software, steel, research, environmental impact and engineering concerns.

    It doesn't increase our debt - we gain income from deals such as this.
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  15. #1535  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    The purpose of this is, as has been the established practice in our government, to loan Brazil money, which (a) they will pay back with interest - they have a very good credit rating - and (b) is designed to enhance American business, via trade with Brazil. This includes oil, software, steel, research, environmental impact and engineering concerns.

    It doesn't increase our debt - we gain income from deals such as this.
    Hmmm....let's see....how about we put this money towards drilling off our OWN coast, with AMERICAN companies, and keep it all in the family? If we do help get more oil out of the "ground" in Brazil, it will help the overall cost of oil....however....I would just rather give/loan money to American companies vs foreign and accomplish the same thing here. Oh but wait....we did give money to people to buy new cars....that is a great long term strategy to pull the economy out of the doldrums.

    Your comment still doesn't address all the crazy spending we're doing....whether democrat or Republican.....it has to stop!
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  16. #1536  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    Hmmm....let's see....how about we put this money towards drilling off our OWN coast, with AMERICAN companies, and keep it all in the family?
    The US Inport-Export Bank doesn't use tax dollars. It's totally self-sustaining. Therefore it's not an issue of spending tax money here or there. This loan was designed as an interest-bearing loan (to make a profit for the gov't) as well as to promote American industry. That's the entire purpose of the Import-Export Bank, and in most circles, those goals would be considered a good thing.

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...208423244.html

    Oh but wait....we did give money to people to buy new cars....that is a great long term strategy to pull the economy out of the doldrums
    Of course, we all know that this was never intended to be a long-term strategy, and that it is universally considered to have been a tremendous success, as it (a) stimulated spending, and (b) created jobs. It's okay to occassionally admit that the government did something right...we won't tell.

    Your comment still doesn't address all the crazy spending we're doing....whether democrat or Republican.....it has to stop!
    Nor was my comment designed to. It was simply designed to address the central mistake in your premise that this Brazil deal was a bad thing.
    Last edited by Bujin; 08/22/2009 at 01:27 PM.
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  17. groovy's Avatar
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    #1537  
    You guys have to admit, the Obama administration has pretty good timing. Wait for the buzz about the recession being over.. wait for it... wait... okay, its out, everyone's giddy. Now, wait for Friday afternoon... wait.... okay, Friday afternoon. "Oh, one last thing: we made a small mistake. The deficit forecast is not $7 trillion, its $9 trillion. Okay, that's all. Everyone have a great weekend!"
  18. #1538  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    You guys have to admit, the Obama administration has pretty good timing. Wait for the buzz about the recession being over.. wait for it... wait... okay, its out, everyone's giddy. Now, wait for Friday afternoon... wait.... okay, Friday afternoon. "Oh, one last thing: we made a small mistake. The deficit forecast is not $7 trillion, its $9 trillion. Okay, that's all. Everyone have a great weekend!"
    But since you were crediting the Bush Administration when the news was good, can we now blame them for this new bad news?
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  19. groovy's Avatar
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    #1539  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    But since you were crediting the Bush Administration when the news was good, can we now blame them for this new bad news?
    No, because according to you the administration on watch gets the blame.

    Actually, I long for the days when Republicans could justifiably call the Democrats "big spenders".
  20. #1540  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    No, because according to you the administration on watch gets the blame.

    Actually, I long for the days when Republicans could justifiably call the Democrats "big spenders".
    OK, Just remember that if/when the recovery continues!

    Personally, I don't care if it's big or small spending, as long as it's smart spending.

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