Page 76 of 143 FirstFirst ... 2666717273747576777879808186126 ... LastLast
Results 1,501 to 1,520 of 2855
  1. #1501  
    Let's just say that I know lots of patients who don't have $4000 to spend on out of pocket deductibles. "Wrong" depends on what side of the financial fence you are sitting on. Can HSA's make sense for young healthy workers? Maybe. Do they make sense for people who are working minimum wage jobs with no easily accessible cash and who actually have to struggle to pay for food? So far, everyone on this board who is opposed to significant reform seems to have good health insurance. Go figure. We've all got smart phones and computers. Believe it or not, there are lots of people who get sick who don't have any of those things. And that's why this discussion is largely pointless. You have what you need, and the other problems aren't yours. Yet. You don't see them. I do.
  2. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #1502  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    Let's just say that I know lots of patients who don't have $4000 to spend on out of pocket deductibles. "Wrong" depends on what side of the financial fence you are sitting on. Can HSA's make sense for young healthy workers? Maybe. Do they make sense for people who are working minimum wage jobs with no easily accessible cash and who actually have to struggle to pay for food? So far, everyone on this board who is opposed to significant reform seems to have good health insurance. Go figure. We've all got smart phones and computers. Believe it or not, there are lots of people who get sick who don't have any of those things. And that's why this discussion is largely pointless. You have what you need, and the other problems aren't yours. Yet. You don't see them. I do.
    Well, actually, my health insurance is kind of mediocre. I'm not sure if I missed it, but I don't believe anyone said everyone MUST have an HSA/High deductible insurance plan. I just like that option, and think it makes great sense for young workers.

    People that have minimum wage jobs likely can't afford any insurance. Of course if we took that 300 billion we already spend on Medicaid and applied it to those 47 million uninsured (which you probably are if you have a minimum wage job) we can provide them a $4400 insurance policy and put $2000 into an HSA for them--each year, each person. Apparently we are spending 300 billion and NOT covering these people currently.

    But one thing you said is true--other people's problems are not my problems. I am responsible for my family. If you see all these problems, then feel free to treat them for free. Go ahead, and make a difference, because that power is in your hands.

    Why are you here engaging in "pointless" discussion when you can be helping treat people that need medical care and can't afford it.

    KAM
    Last edited by KAM1138; 08/21/2009 at 11:13 AM. Reason: Additional point
  3. Micael's Avatar
    Posts
    736 Posts
    Global Posts
    739 Global Posts
       #1503  
    Quote Originally Posted by rebirth24 View Post
    Is there a good breakdown anywhere of what this bill is all about?
    Not yet... and really the question is, which bill is it. There's several floating around, from what I understand. I've heard that the one 1000 page bill that most people talk about that's in the House is a nightmare to read. The lawyers will be having a field day adapting each line item of the bill to read any way that any particular lobbyist would desire. Can you say "Gravy Train" bill?
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  4. #1504  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    Let's just say that I know lots of patients who don't have $4000 to spend on out of pocket deductibles. "Wrong" depends on what side of the financial fence you are sitting on. Can HSA's make sense for young healthy workers? Maybe. Do they make sense for people who are working minimum wage jobs with no easily accessible cash and who actually have to struggle to pay for food? So far, everyone on this board who is opposed to significant reform seems to have good health insurance. Go figure. We've all got smart phones and computers. Believe it or not, there are lots of people who get sick who don't have any of those things. And that's why this discussion is largely pointless. You have what you need, and the other problems aren't yours. Yet. You don't see them. I do.
    Hate to make a case of this good doctor, but your quote was this: "Yeah, HSA's are fine....as long as you don't get sick." (go check, that is your quote) So now you add some additional info.....well....depends on your age, or maybe your financial situation, etc. Do you still stick with your original quote, or now maybe agree that an HSA can be the best option for some people.

    I will agree....that for the person who lives day-to-day, $4000 is a ton of money....no arguement there. But ironically, the plan that appears to being promoted for those that can't afford the premiums are the more costly plans that have co-pays for any and everything. If the idea is to protect everyone from going bankrupt, an HSA option is not bad from that perspective since it does limit your exposure, correct?
    PalmPilot, PalmIIIc, Treo 650, Pre, Pre 3, Nokia 1020, Lumia 950

    "It's good to be the King" - Mel Brooks, History of the World, Part 1

    "I would rather have a German division in front of me than a French one behind me." General George S. Patton
  5. Micael's Avatar
    Posts
    736 Posts
    Global Posts
    739 Global Posts
       #1505  
    Quote Originally Posted by rebirth24 View Post
    Peachy. All I have found are the 1000 page PDF's and a bunch of arguments. Would be nice to have some (several for arguments sake) breakdowns of the ins/outs of what is proposed.

    I personally work for a large company, don't pay much (if anything) for health care and don't really see the need for change (oh I am so selfish...yes).
    It's convoluted by design. Easier to pass if nobody can take the time to figure out whats passing and whats not.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  6. Micael's Avatar
    Posts
    736 Posts
    Global Posts
    739 Global Posts
       #1506  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    Hate to make a case of this good doctor, but your quote was this: "Yeah, HSA's are fine....as long as you don't get sick." (go check, that is your quote) So now you add some additional info.....well....depends on your age, or maybe your financial situation, etc. Do you still stick with your original quote, or now maybe agree that an HSA can be the best option for some people.

    I will agree....that for the person who lives day-to-day, $4000 is a ton of money....no arguement there. But ironically, the plan that appears to being promoted for those that can't afford the premiums are the more costly plans that have co-pays for any and everything. If the idea is to protect everyone from going bankrupt, an HSA option is not bad from that perspective since it does limit your exposure, correct?
    If there are multiple HSA plans to choose from, won't they be able to structure a deductible that meets their personal situation; age, income, general health, etc.? I like the idea of taking personal responsibility and control over my plan.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  7. #1507  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post

    But one thing you said is true--other people's problems are not my problems. I am responsible for my family. If you see all these problems, then feel free to treat them for free. Go ahead, and make a difference, because that power is in your hands.

    Why are you here engaging in "pointless" discussion when you can be helping treat people that need medical care and can't afford it.

    KAM
    Please don't go there. You've already demonstrated your lack of caring about others. I will just tell you that I practiced for years in Appalachia taking care of indigent coal miners, started a number of free clinics in Nashville, and my office currently runs a clinic in a homeless shelter and another in a local ministry office. I need no suggestions from you about providing for poor people. I would love to have you come meet some, however, especially the ones who work two jobs and have children they can't buy medicines for. If not for Walmart they would be screwed and so would their kids. But you don't really know anything about those people, do you?
  8. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #1508  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    It's convoluted by design. Easier to pass if nobody can take the time to figure out whats passing and whats not.
    Additionally, the government officials who write the rules based on the law is really an open question. It wouldn't be unheard of for them to have a great deal of latitude, and as they say--the devil is in the details.

    If you've noticed the President is attempting to present this a simple, common sense thing, but it is was, then why is it 1000 pages, that requires (according to one Democrat Congressman) 2 days to read and two lawyers to tell you what it means. Clearly, that isn't simple or common sense at that point. So, we should be asking (if we believe in the concept of representative government)--exactly what is that all about, what does it do, what does it mean to me, etc.

    Our President preferred that this already be signed into law--before the August Recess. Now, that strikes me as problematic. Why would anyone want to rush a massive bill through Congress without even knowing what it entails, or what could be made of it.

    The President keeps making promises, but he can't really keep those promises, because the bill isn't even finalized. Now is the time to question these provisions and fight against (or for) things in there. Once it is signed, it is too late. Of course, they succeeded in doing that with the Stimulus bill, so we shouldn't be surprised to see a repeat of that tactic.

    KAM
  9. #1509  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Of course his real name isn't Sebastian, because we all know it's not up to you to release or discuss that information publicly because of the HIPAA act....
    Again, talking of something you know nothing about. Since his parents posted a video on Youtube and started a foundation based on what happened to him, and also since I know them well, I can tell you they would love to have the word spread.

    The Sebastian Ferrero Foundation
  10. #1510  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    Please don't go there. You've already demonstrated your lack of caring about others. I will just tell you that I practiced for years in Appalachia taking care of indigent coal miners, started a number of free clinics in Nashville, and my office currently runs a clinic in a homeless shelter and another in a local ministry office. I need no suggestions from you about providing for poor people. I would love to have you come meet some, however, especially the ones who work two jobs and have children they can't buy medicines for. If not for Walmart they would be screwed and so would their kids. But you don't really know anything about those people, do you?
    Yes!.....I love this attack (Kam, you might should report him to palandri) when the liberal accuses you of "lack of caring"! Love that one. Okay everyone....I lead this in here occasionally....but let's all hold hands, sway back and forth, and sing kumbayah followed by "We are the World".

    Really doc....going down the "you don't care about others" road? Is that the same path that Joe Biden goes down when he gives $900 a year to charity? And I'll bet that $900 was to an art institute promoting someone peeing on a cross. Oh oh....I might get reported to palandri on that one
    PalmPilot, PalmIIIc, Treo 650, Pre, Pre 3, Nokia 1020, Lumia 950

    "It's good to be the King" - Mel Brooks, History of the World, Part 1

    "I would rather have a German division in front of me than a French one behind me." General George S. Patton
  11. #1511  
    May be...but that's where I'm going. It's clear in talking to Canadians that they take pride in providing for others. It's clear we don't. And frankly, I don't give a damn what Joe Biden does, or what Kam does. I do what I do because it needs to be done. I realize idealism is to be scoffed at these days, but it's very prevalent among our students, thankfully. Just not prevalent among much of the population who already have what they need.
  12. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #1512  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    Please don't go there. You've already demonstrated your lack of caring about others. I will just tell you that I practiced for years in Appalachia taking care of indigent coal miners, started a number of free clinics in Nashville, and my office currently runs a clinic in a homeless shelter and another in a local ministry office. I need no suggestions from you about providing for poor people. I would love to have you come meet some, however, especially the ones who work two jobs and have children they can't buy medicines for. If not for Walmart they would be screwed and so would their kids. But you don't really know anything about those people, do you?
    I demonstrated a lack of caring about others? Prove it. Stop running your mouth with your idiotic accusations and prove it? Of course you cannot, because you know next to nothing about me, so kindly stop attacking me and my character. You have no idea about what I do or do not do to help the needy.

    I did say I was responsible for my own family, which is a true statement and I don't believe it is my place to run other people's lives--that is their responsibility. As you point out, I'm not a medical expert and am not qualified to participate, but you are, but choose instead to engage in "pointless" discussion, when you could be helping someone. Aren't there any needy folks in need of medical care in your area? You've said you've done a lot--and that's great. Why not do more right now? Why are you wasting time here when your valuable skills could be used to provide vital medical care to someone in need. I'm afraid I can't help provide medical care--according to you, because I'm not qualified.

    You also didn't answer my question--are you or are you not a willing participant in the for-profit medical industry? Do you get paid and make a profit for your services?

    KAM
  13. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #1513  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    May be...but that's where I'm going. It's clear in talking to Canadians that they take pride in providing for others. It's clear we don't. And frankly, I don't give a damn what Joe Biden does, or what Kam does. I do what I do because it needs to be done. I realize idealism is to be scoffed at these days, but it's very prevalent among our students, thankfully. Just not prevalent among much of the population who already have what they need.
    Apparently you do give a damn about what I do, because you are spending your time here making accusations about me--someone you know nothing about. You are demonstrating your willingness to literally make things up about people you do not know.

    Wow, you are a grand idealist huh, doing what needs to be done? Again--I still see you are here, when you know there are people out there that can't afford health care, and you can treat them. Why aren't you doing it idealist? Too busy insulting people you don't know and puffing up your chest and telling us how great you are.

    Do I have what I need? Yes, I've EARNED what I need. And I'll let you in on a little secret. A very large amount of my earnings goes to help others--its called taxes, including social security, medicare, etc. But not only that very large chunk--I also give to charities and organizations of my choosing with the money I'm left with. Hate to burst your bubble, but a lot of people choose to give even more than is taken from them. I'm no saint, and I waste money on things like Palm Pre, but I'm not an idealist, so at least I'm honest about it.

    KAM
    Last edited by KAM1138; 08/21/2009 at 11:45 AM. Reason: Typo
  14. Micael's Avatar
    Posts
    736 Posts
    Global Posts
    739 Global Posts
       #1514  
    you guys still bantering with davidra? I put him on ignore pages ago. he/she is just here to still the pot and intimidate. some sort of ego trip I think, at work. stuff like people in Canada care about others but we don't.... why even entertain responding to such nonsense?
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  15. #1515  
    The thread is reopened. We have to keep the conversation civil. Attack only the issue and not the individual. Anymore complaints and we'll have to shut it down permanently.

    Thanks for your cooperation!


    We just got another complaint from a 3rd party:

    very mean hearted spiteful personal attack, totally not warrented on this fella. This discussion is getting really nasty, and there is one side who seems to be just trying to belittle anyone who disagrees with them.
    Last edited by palandri; 08/21/2009 at 01:24 PM.
    My Phone & My Wife's Phone Two Unlocked GSM Treo Pro's

  16. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #1516  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    you guys still bantering with davidra? I put him on ignore pages ago. he/she is just here to still the pot and intimidate. some sort of ego trip I think, at work. stuff like people in Canada care about others but we don't.... why even entertain responding to such nonsense?
    Wait, we can put people on ignore? *slaps forehead* Kidding. While I am sure I have a limit in dealing with some who keeps engaging in dishonest accusations, I'm not prone to turning down the volume--even on people who are proving themselves...unreasonable.

    KAM
  17. #1517  
    Quote Originally Posted by palandri View Post
    The thread is reopened. We have to keep the conversation civil. Attack only the issue and not the individual. Anymore complaints and we'll have to shut it down permanently.

    Thanks for your cooperation!


    We just got another complaint from a 3rd party:
    Whew!
    PalmPilot, PalmIIIc, Treo 650, Pre, Pre 3, Nokia 1020, Lumia 950

    "It's good to be the King" - Mel Brooks, History of the World, Part 1

    "I would rather have a German division in front of me than a French one behind me." General George S. Patton
  18. Micael's Avatar
    Posts
    736 Posts
    Global Posts
    739 Global Posts
       #1518  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    Whew!
    I know. I've gotten alot back from this thread. It's caused me to research and learn. Was hoping it wouldnt be closed perm.

    Meanwhile, here's an interesting opinion piece from the UK. They seem to think that France has a system that's worth learning from.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  19. #1519  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    I know. I've gotten alot back from this thread. It's caused me to research and learn. Was hoping it wouldnt be closed perm.

    Meanwhile, here's an interesting opinion piece from the UK. They seem to think that France has a system that's worth learning from.
    France? I'll stick with my favorite Gen. George Patton quote: "I would rather have a German division in front of me than a French one behind me."

    Oh....and before I get reported for bashing the french, unfortunately, my ancestors came from there (grrrrrr) so I am allowed to be critical of them.
    PalmPilot, PalmIIIc, Treo 650, Pre, Pre 3, Nokia 1020, Lumia 950

    "It's good to be the King" - Mel Brooks, History of the World, Part 1

    "I would rather have a German division in front of me than a French one behind me." General George S. Patton
  20. #1520  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    Whew!
    LOL Well, at this point, I'm beyond trying to rationally discuss it with anyone. Too many appeals to emotion and people trying to tell me that I just don't understand the issue since I disagree with their position. I had a reply prepared to one of these "Oh, you just wait and see and you'll be thankful for Medicare" which was lost when the thread was closed. C'est la vie. Sorry, but emotional appeals and raising the specter of fear and my own ignorance aren't effective arguments.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...

Posting Permissions