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  1. Micael's Avatar
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       #1161  
    Quote Originally Posted by theog View Post
    Interesting... Nancy was calling those at the meetings wrong for comparing obama and dems to the Nazis. Although, if you read what she said, it does seem to link her to saying some of the protesters were carrying swastikas and other Nazi paraphernalia.

    Don't know, I was not there... but we have seen plenty of conservative sites and such displaying such stuff around obama and other dems.

    How far off was she? Not far...

    Truth hurts... ask that pill popping Rush Limbaugh.

    The Republican party is spinning towards non-existance due to this type of politics. Unfortunately, it seems to feed upon itself.
    The word "Nazi" is short for the german word for national socialism... which is what you, and Nancy, and Obama are striving so hard for. Truth hurts, don't it.

    Btw, most of those people Nancy is disparaging are senior citizens from both sides of the aisle, but you're to blinded by your ideology to notice.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  2. #1162  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    The word "Nazi" is short for the german word for national socialism... which is what you, and Nancy, and Obama are striving so hard for. Truth hurts, don't it.
    To be completely fair, I don't recall seeing theog pushing for that. He does have a thing for Ben, though.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  3. #1163  
    Quote Originally Posted by zelgo View Post
    Reminds me of all Bush's speeches where the audiences were screened to be sure they supported Bush...
    Zelgo returns! Enjoyed Obama's election rally today. I haven't seen that many democrats stuffed into a gym in quite some time. I really don't mind the democrats gathering together, but when it is billed as a Town Hall meeting to hear everyone's opinion, sure smelled a bit "fishy". When the first question was from a member of the state's HR who was a democrat, and he immediately went after the nasty Republicans who were fighting this socialist program, I wasn't quite ready to give up on the show....but then when the little cute girl read the question that was written for her....I knew it was a well scripted event. As far as democrat rallies go, seemed like a good one. Why, Obama even managed to get in a wink at that one woman and I thought she was going to faint! I did enjoy when Obama pointed out, when trying to explain the concern about government vs private companies, that it would be just like Fed Ex against the Post Office and he pointed out how bad the Post Office was running. Oh great....add them to the growing list of government programs along with Social Security and Medicare that are going bankrupt. He didn't have his prompter to keep him on target.....so....really hard to give him too much grief.

    Anyway, the true debate occured at the Town Halls like with good ole Specter.....did that man look like a deer in headlights or what?
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  4. #1164  
    Quote Originally Posted by zelgo View Post
    Oh, really? There is not a darn thing that black people can't do in this country? How about sitting in the Board rooms of the top businesses, becoming CEOs, becoming managers, or getting into the Senate and Congress in any appreciable numbers. How about getting the American government to get you out of New Orleans when Katrina hits? How about getting a paycheck equal to a white man's for the same job? Obama is a big step--not a resolution.

    When the power structure is run by white people, they try all they can to keep out minorities. I'm not saying this is some fault specific to white people-it just happens with anyone in power. You have power and money--you try all you can so no one else gets it--particularly people "different" from you.

    Have you not lived in America?
    Yes....lived here my whole life. You must keep things in perspective....based on numbers from the Census Bureau, blacks make up 12.8% of the population. Of the 435 members of the House....39 are black, that is 9%. Do we have to have 12.8% for it to be to your liking? The Senate is only 1 black.....I don't have the statistics on how many blacks ran for office. You can't vote for them if they don't run! But....a black did run for President and guess what? He won. One ran....one won.....and, if I recall, he beat a white man.....what you talking about Willis?

    As for N.O., please, the Mayor of N.O. was a black dude and he did NOTHING to help the situation. If I recall, there was a parking lot full of buses, underwater, that he didn't use that could have been used to move folks (black and white) out of the city before the storm....but hmmm....those buses didn't move and ended up underwater....and it was a black mayor who let them sit there.

    So please....stop all this "blacks are helpless people" stuff and open your eyes. Oh....and because I invest in a number of stocks, I get sent all these annual reports. Have you ever looked in them and seen the board members? Quite a number of blacks sitting on boards these days....but have you really looked? I doubt it.
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  5. groovy's Avatar
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    #1165  
    Quote Originally Posted by theog View Post
    Interesting... Nancy was calling those at the meetings wrong for comparing obama and dems to the Nazis. Although, if you read what she said, it does seem to link her to saying some of the protesters were carrying swastikas and other Nazi paraphernalia.

    Don't know, I was not there... but we have seen plenty of conservative sites and such displaying such stuff around obama and other dems.

    How far off was she? Not far...

    Truth hurts... ask that pill popping Rush Limbaugh.

    The Republican party is spinning towards non-existance due to this type of politics. Unfortunately, it seems to feed upon itself.
    There truly is nothing new under the sun, eh? It wasn't so long ago that we saw "Bush is Hitler" plastered all over internet forums, posters and bumper-stickers, Speeches being interrupted by Bush protesters making comparisons between Bush and Hitler or between the Republicans and the Nazis or the KKK. I recall reading some well-meaning but naive Conservatives trying to explain what Nazism and Fascism are, as though anyone was really interested in knowing the truth.

    Funny thing is, I also recall people saying the the Republican party was going to slip into oblivion if Clinton won a second term. Well, it didn't happen then and it's not going to happen now. The Republicans and Democrats aren't going anywhere except further to the Right and the Left respectively.
  6. #1166  
    Quote Originally Posted by zelgo View Post
    Yelling,disruptive, uninformed, easily manipulated marauding mobs don't make good debaters...
    Yes....I saw that one plant....the woman name Katy Abram....former democrat and voted for Clinton twice....she was real sneaky. Get a grip....you libs accuse Republicans of scare tactics all the time, but then y'all do this scare tactic of saying that all the angry Americans are bused in and are members of Republican groups. Get a grip....Americans are worried because Obama made it clear in many speeches that he wanted universal health care. Don't believe me? Here is just one clip:

    Watch it.....what does he say we can have before the end of his first term? Was that universal health care? But...but...but...he says that isn't what he wants now! Which Obama do we believe? The one selling his plan now, or the one running back then when he was being honest?
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  7. #1167  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    The word "Nazi" is short for the german word for national socialism... which is what you, and Nancy, and Obama are striving so hard for. Truth hurts, don't it.

    Btw, most of those people Nancy is disparaging are senior citizens from both sides of the aisle, but you're to blinded by your ideology to notice.
    LOL... your assumptions are enough... that is what happens to people when they talk out the side of their neck about something they don't have a clue.

    For one, please let me know where I said I was fully supporting health care reform? I'll save you some time... you can't.

    This is what I'm worried about: Swastika painted at congressman‚€™s office - Capitol Hill- msnbc.com

    At the end, we don't end up with a debate about health care.... it simply passes without much resistance, because if you don't support it you are a racist, bigot, or whatever bad word you can throw out.

    And your failed attempt to "explain" the word Nazi is troubling. We all know what it "really" means. It is sad.

    I'm worried about what we are going to pass... something is going through since both Republicans and Democrats agree that change is needed. Something... what it looks like is a guess at this point. But I'd rather have a bipartisanship bill rather than something Obama and Dems put out there on their own.

    This is a lot deeper than calling names... we are talking about a serious overhaul... this will and can impact everyone on this forum. If not done correctly, it could end in disaster.

    Rush, IMO, is not being responsible... on his site, does he have his alternate proposal posted? If he does, can someone post a link?

    The course of this debate is what dems want... it will get so divided that the spinning Republicans will look like fools... again.

    For the record, I have free medical care until I die. Actually, I have more than enough medical since I also pay for a plan. I'd like to see all kids with free medical (none falling through the cracks due to parents income)... I'm still on the fence about this free medical stuff... waiting for more concrete information, instead of all this uninformed debating.
    Last edited by theog; 08/11/2009 at 09:26 PM.
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  8. #1168  
    Quote Originally Posted by zelgo View Post
    When all these people are being disruptive with the SAME, false talking points, you begin to wonder who organized it all.... Like it's a "spontaneous" uprising--laughable.


    Josh Dorner: Townhall Mobs -- Brought to You by Big Oil and Dirty Coal
    It is all so sick, it is almost funny...

    I was reading about big oil the other night... lots of people with their hands in the jar.... lots of money being made in health care... some people definitely don't want it to change. Why would they?
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  9. #1169  
    Quote Originally Posted by zelgo View Post
    Blacks aren't helpless--many just don't happen to be born with the same automatic privileges white people do.

    Obama is the 44th president. We need 5 more before we hit 13%. There's one black senator now but only 4 since reconstruction.

    And please stop clinging on to the silly "blame the mayor" chant on the whole Katrina mess. There were no buses--please stop believing the made-up stuff spread by Repubs trying to show that Bush wasn't inept. The Fed Government steps in when it wants--it completely failed during the destruction of a major American city--utterly unforgiveable. When there are fires in California, destroying the homes of white people, they are in the next day--with portable ATM's off all things!

    Are the top companies with more than the one token minority? How about law firms? Pharmaceutical firms? Drug companies? I guess your anecdotal "checking the pictures" is more accurate than studies.

    Majority of Corporate Directors Do Not Want to Increase Minority Representation On Boards (Nasdaq:HSII)
    You conveniently skipped over the blacks in the HR...kind of stumped on that one? Also, how many blacks ran for the Senate? Can't vote for them if they don't run! As for President, so, until we have 12.8% of the Presidents as black, we are a racist society? Who are you? LOL

    As for blacks being in top positions....here is one thing I know about being in business....businesses these days care about the green dollar, right? They don't care if the person working for them is purple if he or she will make them money. You see, quotas might work in certain programs, but quotas just don't work in business....businesses will hire someone if they think that person will make them money.

    Oh oh.....guess what....and this will trouble you....but....how can I break this to you.....the CEO of Aetna?....you know....an evil health insurance company? Well, the CEO is Ronald Williams....a black dude: Ronald A. Williams I hope Aetna doesn't get shut down....might lose a black CEO!
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  10. #1170  
    I don't know where you people are living and working, but I've been with the same job for 28+ years and I've seen the cost go up and the benefits received go down.

    The decisions as to what's best for me and most Americans isn't based on our doctor's opinions, it's based on what our health insurance will allow. Because I'm part of management, I know that during some years health insurance premiums increase 100% yet the benefits to the employees went down.

    All of this argument about a government run option taking the decisions from the doctors is baloney. It's already been taken from the doctors and it's getting worse every year.

    I don't know what the right direction is, but I know continuing in the same direction is not working. You need to actually do some checking. Check with your job or your health care provider. Find out what was covered 5 years ago and what's covered now. You're going to find some marked decreases, but increased costs.

    The job I work for pays 100% of the premium that they paid, before you retired if you work for them for over 25 years. However, the don't pay the premium increases. Most of my friends who retired have their retirement income eaten away by health insurance premium increases while they wait to reach 65 and for medicare to kick in. When you get medicare, the health insurance stops.

    Based on new negotiations and budget issues that health insurance premium costs will stop being covered for current employees and for retirees. Thus, employees will be receiving a $400 to $600 per month pay cut if they have family coverage.

    Again, you can ignore the current state of the American health care system and health care costs, but ignoring it will not make it go away and it will continue to deteriorate. Ignoring our banking system didn't work, why would you think health care will fare any better.

    When our health care system implodes like the banking system, everyone will be pointing fingers at their elected officials and saying why didn't they do something. In America (or just plain human nature), we are quick to blame others for our own inaction or intervention that prevented other from acting.
  11. groovy's Avatar
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    #1171  
    I'm going to regret this, but here we go anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by zelgo View Post
    Oh, really? There is not a darn thing that black people can't do in this country? How about sitting in the Board rooms of the top businesses
    African-Americans hold 8% of the seats on Fortune 500 companies.

    becoming CEOs, becoming managers
    Have you heard of Kenneth Chenault, Bill Easter, Erroll Davis, Reginald Davis, Carl Horton, Alwyn Lewis, Stanley O'Neal, Dan Packer, Pamela Thomas-Graham, Richard Parsons, John Thompson, etc, etc?

    or getting into the Senate and Congress in any appreciable numbers.
    9.5% of the current House is a pretty appreciable number, I'd say.

    How about getting the American government to get you out of New Orleans when Katrina hits?
    How about getting out your own damn self? But, if we must do this, the US Coast Guard alone rescued 33,500 people during Katrina. I'm guessing there were a couple of black people in there somewhere. Maybe they got rescued by accident though.

    How about getting a paycheck equal to a white man's for the same job?
    The real question is why Asians make more than all of the rest of us.
  12. #1172  
    Quote Originally Posted by bdhu2001 View Post
    I don't know where you people are living and working, but I've been with the same job for 28+ years and I've seen the cost go up and the benefits received go down.

    The decisions as to what's best for me and most Americans isn't based on our doctor's opinions, it's based on what our health insurance will allow. Because I'm part of management, I know that during some years health insurance premiums increase 100% yet the benefits to the employees went down.

    All of this argument about a government run option taking the decisions from the doctors is baloney. It's already been taken from the doctors and it's getting worse every year.

    I don't know what the right direction is, but I know continuing in the same direction is not working. You need to actually do some checking. Check with your job or your health care provider. Find out what was covered 5 years ago and what's covered now. You're going to find some marked decreases, but increased costs.

    The job I work for pays 100% of the premium that they paid, before you retired if you work for them for over 25 years. However, the don't pay the premium increases. Most of my friends who retired have their retirement income eaten away by health insurance premium increases while they wait to reach 65 and for medicare to kick in. When you get medicare, the health insurance stops.

    Based on new negotiations and budget issues that health insurance premium costs will stop being covered for current employees and for retirees. Thus, employees will be receiving a $400 to $600 per month pay cut if they have family coverage.

    Again, you can ignore the current state of the American health care system and health care costs, but ignoring it will not make it go away and it will continue to deteriorate. Ignoring our banking system didn't work, why would you think health care will fare any better.

    When our health care system implodes like the banking system, everyone will be pointing fingers at their elected officials and saying why didn't they do something. In America (or just plain human nature), we are quick to blame others for our own inaction or intervention that prevented other from acting.
    Never said there weren't issues with the current health insurance system. I have never said that. What I have said is because of the horrible track record shown by government run entities (Obama brought up one today at the democrat rally, the Post Office), and I'm primarily referring to keeping these entities solvent, I think we should try and fix the system we have without throwing it out.

    Here's the problem with that. Democrats don't believe in Republican ideas, and Republicans don't believe in the democrat's ideas. Democrats believe in the government coming to the rescue, and Republicans believe in keeping the government out. Hard for these two basic principles to work, agreed?

    I keep hearing the Republicans have no ideas...but that is simply not true. For one, and this is completely off limits to democrats, and that is tort reform. I heard a doctor today saying his practice of 5 doctors pays $500,000 for malpractice insurance (that is actually a low number that I've heard). So, before the doors open to pay those 5 doctors, 7 nurses, the staff, the building costs, benefits (yes, they need health care and benefits to!), utilities, etc.....they have a $500,000 bill each year and it keeps going up. Then, figure in that their medicare reimbursements keep going down...well...you have problems. And the reason the medicare reimbursements keep going down is because the medicare program is losing money so the government has to keep paying the doctors less and less. But I digress....tort reform....this would be a start without the government running health care.

    Another idea is opening state plans to people in other states. If coverage in Georgia is less....then let people in other states get coverage there....this does open up competition. I think it is important to make insurance companies compete more against each other.

    Another problem that makes the 2 parties stay apart is whether the Federal goverment should be involved in health care. Based on Amendment X of the Constitution, this should be a state issue: The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. Health care is not mentioned in the Constitution. And before someone mentions education, education is state supported, not a Federal program. So, I would have less of a problem with this if the states set up programs for those that could not get coverage and everyone participating would be required to contribute....not just one group. This would help with the problem of health care costs being increased because of uninsureds getting treatment at medical facilities while having no coverage.

    All this can be done without the Federal government taking over. I know....I know....universal coverage is not on the table....well I believe that is the ultimate goal because I have heard those words come from Obama and other liberals. I've seen the videos....and I simply don't believe they are being up front with the American people today.
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  13. #1173  
    Really now? Then why those speeches with protestors interrupting him? More than a few speeches.

    Quote Originally Posted by zelgo View Post
    Reminds me of all Bush's speeches where the audiences were screened to be sure they supported Bush...
  14. #1174  
    Katrina was a local issue far more than a federal issue. The city and state failed miserably, though the federal government had its problems. Look more to the city and its failures than anything else.

    Token minorities? That is a statement that just does not hold fruit juice.

    Quote Originally Posted by zelgo View Post
    Blacks aren't helpless--many just don't happen to be born with the same automatic privileges white people do.

    Obama is the 44th president. We need 5 more before we hit 13%. There's one black senator now but only 4 since reconstruction.

    And please stop clinging on to the silly "blame the mayor" chant on the whole Katrina mess. There were no buses--please stop believing the made-up stuff spread by Repubs trying to show that Bush wasn't inept. The Fed Government steps in when it wants--it completely failed during the destruction of a major American city--utterly unforgiveable. When there are fires in California, destroying the homes of white people, they are in the next day--with portable ATM's off all things!

    Are the top companies with more than the one token minority? How about law firms? Pharmaceutical firms? Drug companies? I guess your anecdotal "checking the pictures" is more accurate than studies.

    Majority of Corporate Directors Do Not Want to Increase Minority Representation On Boards (Nasdaq:HSII)
  15. #1175  
    Anyone here aware that in the Rockerfeller complex in lovely New York of something on one of the buildings - something like a chariot with Mussolini in it? Great Fortune: The Epic of Rockefeller Center by Daniel Okrent | LibraryThing. To think this fantastic person, the savior of his time, used no people of color due to union involvement. Townhall mobs - brought to you by people who do not want you involved (as recently said by Barry Soroteno).
  16. Micael's Avatar
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       #1176  
    What's this got to do with Healthcare?
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  17. #1177  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    What's this got to do with Healthcare?
    It looks more like a townhall meeting on healthcare this way.



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  18. #1178  
    Obama lies again.....AARP has not endorsed the Obama health care plan. He keeps saying this....he said it yesterday at the democrat health care rally....and just the night before I heard one of the top AARP guys say it just wasn't so....they have not endorsed any healthcare plan at this point. The AARP came out again this morning and have said they are not endorsing any plan at this time. Why does Obama continue to spread these false rumors? Should this "fishy" info be forwarded to the White House? I just wish he would start telling the truth about his plan.
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  19. #1179  
    Quote Originally Posted by zelgo View Post
    The Commonwealth Fund did a similar survey showing the dismal feelings America has towards our healthcare system. The link in back in the thread somewhere.
    That's the point of seeing the study though. The results seem very similar to opinions on Congress. People aren't happy with 'The System', but are happy more often than not with what they have. As usual, that support for change in general can start to falter when specific changes are discussed. For example, in the most recent public opinion survey by the Kaiser Family Foundation, 59% of the respondents favored creating a government administered option to compete with private insurance (5% neither support nor oppose). However, if the government plan would have an unfair advantage, the numbers almost exactly flipped (56% oppose with 9% neither support nor oppose). Also, if it was simply a first step toward a single payer system, 49% would oppose it and 12% would neither support nor oppose it.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  20. #1180  
    Quote Originally Posted by zelgo View Post
    Notice, none of the protesters are speaking up against the "mandatory" insurance part of the health plan? They hate the public option, they hate the death panels, they hate that Obama will come shoot you if you are over 50, they hate that Obama is a black Nazi--but they aren't yelling against the mandatory part.
    That's the wonderful part. I don't have to debate _their_ position. I'm only obligated to debate _my_ position.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...

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