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  1. jmelan's Avatar
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    #1121  
    see the msnbc homepage:

    "Health reform idea: Put down the doughnut"

    If you ask Dr. Steven Spady, there are two important words missing from the nation’s conversation about health reform: “personal responsibility.”

    But Spady, a 54-year-old emergency physician in rural Kentucky, can’t talk about the topic right now. He’s too busy caring for people who he says don’t take care of themselves.


    Obesity health costs: $147 billion a year
    There’s no doubt that the bulk of the nation’s health care costs are self-inflicted. Smoking, high blood pressure and being overweight are the top risks for early death, accounting for more than 1 million premature deaths each year, with physical inactivity, high blood sugar and alcohol use not far behind, according to an April study by the Harvard School of Public Health.

    The price tag for obesity has soared to $147 billion a year, new government studies show, and smoking costs about $193 billion in medical expenses and lost productivity.
  2. #1122  
    Quote Originally Posted by zelgo View Post
    In reviewing the Constitution, I'm seeing this line about slaves being counted as 3/4th of a man. Is that an example of how this country was set up?
    Now, now, now.....you really didn't read that link, did you? If so, you would have then come to something called "Amendments". These are changes that have been made to the Constitution....so you see....it is actually a living document that can be adjusted for mistakes! Cool, huh? It isn't easy to make the changes, but they can be made (assignment, go look in the Constitution and see how you can make a change to it! Very easy to find!). Anyway....please go back to that link and look at Amendments XIII and XXIV and it will discuss how slavery is now illegal and blacks have the right to vote! Cool, huh? Again....read the document....it can really educate you!
  3. #1123  
    Quote Originally Posted by zelgo View Post
    10%--are you kidding?! How about 3 people--the ones they kept showing over and over at the Republican Convention as if to show how diverse the party is.

    We should have played a drinking game--drink every time you see the same black guys at the convention on TV--we would be drunk in about 10 minutes.
    Wait....are you saying that blacks have a problem with whitie? Hmmm....sounds like blacks might be racists! This is horrible and I commend you for bringing it up!
  4. jmelan's Avatar
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    #1124  
    Quote Originally Posted by zelgo View Post
    People who have no idea whatsoever about the problems with America's healthcare system as a whole and Obama's plan have an opinion--more often than not based upon mis-information spread by people making money off the system as we have it now and don't want it to change.

    People may be unhappy, but with 77 million baby boomers coming down the pike and starting to demand their Medicare benefits, the whole current creeky system will come crashing down unless there is dramatic change.

    We have bloated ineffiency NOW and you're threatening bloated inefficiency if the government changes parts of the system??

    People are controlled and manipulated through fear--so when they go protest at the townhalls because the conservative talking heads rile them up--that's politics; it has nothing to do with whether healthcare really needs an overhaul.
    inefficiency now is mostly gov't related and caused, and, as above, a large portion of our health care costs are accounted for by the lack of personal responsibility

    one example:

    medicare part A does not pay for physician costs - patients can not get Primary care appts - show up at the ED with sore throat, need refills, want viagra, want vicodin, runny nose, etc. instead of a $50 PCP visit, there is a $800+ bill.

    medicaid - hope you don't get sick on vacation

    and while we're at it, lets make up a whole bunch of rules to require more wasted employees to fill out paperwork (major inefficiency)

    yes, the system will come crashing down, and the gov't plan is the reason, the fix is not another inefficient gov't plan, it is to change the gov't system to be more like the private system. there is already little incentive for physicians to stay in public healthcare. add more patients with the same pay rate and there will be a crisis of supply and demand (esp with the baby boomers retiring) - have fun waiting 2 years to have your cancer treated, 6 months for a PCP visit, etc
  5. #1125  
    Quote Originally Posted by zelgo View Post
    This actually goes to the heart of my point. The Constitution was written as if land-owning, white men were the only people that mattered in this country. The "rights" were all for them.

    The truth is, this country has evolved because it was of the undercurrent of equality for all--"all" was not originally meant to be everyone who lived here but now it does.

    Reading the Constitution without reading all the history of America since then gives you only half the story.
    Ohhhhhh....I see.....I didn't know you were in favor of dumping the Constitution. You crack me up. I will admit there is nothing I can say to someone who wants to get rid of this document....I mean....????? But, the fact that it can be changed, and has been I believe 27 times in order to fix things that were either wrong (slavery and voting rights for women and blacks) or needed to be updated for other various reasons (limiting Presidential term limits, as an example), completely goes against what you say. However....since I don't know you at all, I will just assume you are far above the Constitution of the US and I will defer to you on what is right and fair in this apparently racist country. My apologies.
  6. Micael's Avatar
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       #1126  
    Quote Originally Posted by jmelan View Post
    Obesity health costs: $147 billion a year
    There’s no doubt that the bulk of the nation’s health care costs are self-inflicted. Smoking, high blood pressure and being overweight are the top risks for early death, accounting for more than 1 million premature deaths each year, with physical inactivity, high blood sugar and alcohol use not far behind, according to an April study by the Harvard School of Public Health.
    If they're dead.... they don't need healthcare. I suppose when you tie everything to obesity, you come up with a wildly inflated number.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  7. Micael's Avatar
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       #1127  
    Quote Originally Posted by zelgo View Post
    Like 401K's with money in the private market? Ooops, that didn't work either.

    Any other bright ideas?
    No, like addressing the medical costs and malpractice insurance costs. I'll try to keep the personal slights out of it, if you will.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  8. Micael's Avatar
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       #1128  
    Quote Originally Posted by zelgo View Post
    People may be unhappy, but with 77 million baby boomers coming down the pike and starting to demand their Medicare benefits, the whole current creeky system will come crashing down unless there is dramatic change.
    So, your solution is to add 50 million more people to the 77 million you're warning about, put them all on one plan, and not raise taxes to the middle class, or increase the deficit in order to pay for it. Sounds wonderful! Where do I sign?
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  9. groovy's Avatar
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    #1129  
    Quote Originally Posted by RolandStone View Post
    Just curious, how many of the "Anti-Obamacare" protesters actually voted for Obama? I'm guessing not many. I think these people are more interested in "breaking" Obama than they are in health care. Funny how you never see any black faces in those Anti-Obamacare protest groups.
    No, Ted Danson wasn't at any anti-government health care rallies.

    But I'm just curious. Are you saying race is a factor in people being for or against the President's policies?
  10. #1130  
    Quote Originally Posted by zelgo View Post
    [...] My guess--you make money off the current broken system.
    In the interest of full disclosure, how do you make your living?
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  11. #1131  
    This has really degraded into a vast display of prejudice and ignorance.

    Well, either that or someone is just having fun on this thread and really doesn't believe all they're posting.
  12. #1132  
    Quote Originally Posted by zelgo View Post
    I'm a hooker.
    That explains why you are opposed to the Fair Tax, your "income" would now be taxed.
  13. #1133  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    That explains why you are opposed to the Fair Tax, your "income" would now be taxed.
    And also so explains the desire for "free" healthcare.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  14. #1134  
    Quote Originally Posted by zelgo View Post
    Huh?

    I was just making the point that people who talk about how we should rule this country by what the writers of the Constitution intended should realize that the Constitution is an evolving document. What matters more than what the original writers intended is how those intentions have evolved.

    As for "apparently racist country"--not sure what planet you've been on but this place is pretty racist.
    We agree on something!!!!! Yes, the Constitution is an "evolving document", or as I referred to it, "living". So if you agree with that, what is YOUR point? Slavery was wrong, so it was addressed and corrected. The evil rich white land owners were over turned and slavery was abolished and corrected in the Constitution. If something needs to be changed in the Constitution then it will be addressed via Article V (you never did your assignment and read how to change the Constitution). So, if the people believe health care should be provided by the Federal Government, an Amendment should be added that says it is a right and should be provided for. Otherwise, it should either be handle with the private sector or be a state issue like education.

    So I am curious....if you don't like the original evil men that wrote the Constitution, what should we do about this racist document? Ummm....we have a black President, there is not a darn thing that black people can't do in this country.....he has proven that point. Do some whites not like black folk? You bet. Do some blacks not like white folk? You bet. We see this every day....but that doesn't mean that our society as a whole is racist or that any person can't do what he or she wants to....and that was not always the case. I stand by my statement.
  15. #1135  
    and it goes on and on and on and on. show me a government that has true compassion for the people. it's as much a business as an oil co. or insurance co. except that it can stick it's hands in your pockets when it pleases. mommy, obama's touching me.

    the destruction of the family has created the need for the government.
  16. #1136  
    Quote Originally Posted by bucksavage View Post
    the destruction of the family has created the need for the government.
    Well that's a fresh approach! Have not seen that mentioned yet on here.
  17. #1137  
    Quote Originally Posted by zelgo View Post
    I'm a hooker.
    Aren't we all. Aren't we all.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  18. #1138  
    Quote Originally Posted by semprini View Post
    I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm against it because it's unconstitutional. The premise for socialized medicine is that health care is a "right" and, therefore, MUST be funded by taxpayers. A "right" doesn't depend another person to fund it's access. Simply put: it's not a "right." You do have to right to pursue health insurance, but you don't have the right to confiscate another person's property to get it.

    The fact is that the vast majority of Americans are happy with their health care and don't want a bloated, inefficient, and inept government bureaucracy telling people how and when they can be treated.

    It's not about "breaking" a president. It's about stopping a terrible idea that will cost us trillions of dollars and eliminate the freedom to access health care on our own terms.

    And the reason why there are supposedly no "black" faces among the protesters could be an entirely new thread altogether. We should just get beyond the color of a man's skin and quit using it as a lame excuse of why we support or oppose his policies.
    "The fact is the vast majority of Americans are happy with their healthcare".

    Would that include the senior citizens who depend on Medicare and Medicaid? I'm old enough to remember when Republicans fought tooth-and-nail against any form of Medicare or Medicaid, calling it "Socialized Medicine". Now those same Republicans are trying to rile up seniors against "Obamacare" by scaring them into thinking that Medicare will suffer as a result. As if those same Republicans wouldn't revoke Medicare too if they could.

    "It's not about breaking a President"

    Tell that to Republican Jim DeWitt. He seems to think otherwise.

    Better yet tell it to Rush Limbaugh who continues to compare Obama to Hitler.

    And the reason there aren't any black faces in those anti-Obamacare crowds is because black folk, like most Democrats, WANT health care reform. And black folk don't believe for a second that Republicans have their health and best interests at heart.

    Bottom line is that President Obama was elected on a platform that made Health Care Reform and a public option it's centerpiece. And if it wasn't Obamacare it would have been Hillarycare you Republicans would be protesting. YOU LOST THE ELECTION. Now get out of the way.
  19. #1139  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    No, Ted Danson wasn't at any anti-government health care rallies.

    But I'm just curious. Are you saying race is a factor in people being for or against the President's policies?
    Yes I am saying that race is a factor. I'm saying that the most vehement protesters include BIRTHERS who are thinly described racists. I'm saying that those trying to compare our President to HITLER are thinly described racists.

    And I'm saying that anyone who would take my original comment and immediately think of Ted Danson probably has some "issues" too. What's next, a Michael Richards allusion?
  20. #1140  
    I'm watching Hardball at the moment, and Chris was just trying to bring up the "car insurance is mandatory, why not health insurance" argument. To which I can only respond, "which federal law made car insurance mandatory?"
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...

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