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  1. #1001  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    I will occasionally read one of your links, but I try not to because most of the time they are from liberal publications or journalist which put their own liberal slant on things, just like you do, and I get enough of that.
    I make it a point to quote from sources such as CNN and the NYTimes. But you can feel that all media is liberal. That seems to be the conservative viewpoint


    By the way....do you think my example of the 74 year old man who needed a hip replacement was bogus? Do you think it is fair that he was going to have to wait 12-18 months to get the elective surgery (his words, not mine) done? If you believe this to be a true case, why would you think it would take so long to get this procedure done in Canada but no wait here in the US? How would you explain that? Just curious....please....I want to learn.
    I don't discount it at all. Do you think the stories of insurance executives being paid bonuses for dropping sick people are bogus?

    Do you, by the way, yet realize that NOBODY is talking about a Canada-style health care? So that example is a non-issue.
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  2. #1002  
    You make it a point to quote from sources such as CNN and the NYTimes - liberal establishments of course. Why not go looking for other places? Bujin, why is it that Fox blows the competition out of the water and has done so for a long, long time. Why not check it out. Surely if Fox was lying all the time then it would be where MSNBC is with Chris and his legs.

    Canada style health care? My God man, not even a sick dog wants to go through that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    I make it a point to quote from sources such as CNN and the NYTimes. But you can feel that all media is liberal. That seems to be the conservative viewpoint

    I don't discount it at all. Do you think the stories of insurance executives being paid bonuses for dropping sick people are bogus?

    Do you, by the way, yet realize that NOBODY is talking about a Canada-style health care? So that example is a non-issue.
  3. #1003  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    Birth certificates for any minority presidents? Really? Then when McCain was asked, why did McCain produce his immediately? If good for McCain, why not Barry? Race is not an issue and you know it.
    I should have known you would believe that silliness. Do you believe the birth announcements in the Hawaiian papers were forgeries as well? I know that facts are inconvenient, but:

    FactCheck.org http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2...n_the_usa.html
    Politifact: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...icate-part-ii/

    No other president has been asked to produce his birth certificate, or been told that a "Certificate of Live Birth" doesn't equal a birth certificate. Or been told that birth announcements in papers announcing his birth had to be forgeries. Race is not an issue - it's the issue.

    Gay marriage? Why define a centuries old institution for a small minority? Loud noise and slandering is why and the liberal side does it very well.
    There have been centuries-old traditions of polygamy as well...why not that? There have been centuries-old traditions of slavery, and women / minorities lacking the right to vote. Laws change as society learns.

    The right to have assault rifles? Are you telling me I cannot have one? Why not? We are sure you know that people kill, not guns. You are just making a point using base emotion.
    I have no issue with the right to bear arms. However, the fear of losing rights has led to folks wanting no restrictions whatsoever, which is silly. The NRA has fought against legislation restricting purchase of guns by people on our Terrorist Watch List....does that make any sense?

    Is science always right? Is Al Gore right?
    I think we've beaten that horse to death in the other thread, but the short form is that it's considered a scientific consensus, which means that (other than some outliers) the scientific community is in agreement that global warming is real, and that humans are contributors.

    There is much more to support 1 God then there is no God.
    Actually, there isn't. But that's a conflict I don't want to get into.

    McCain a moderate? Really? Again you know he is not.
    I did specify McCain 2000. He was replaced by a pod person in 2008.

    Stoking white anxiety and fear? Goodness, you sure do not pay attention to what Nancy, Harry, Al, Barry, and in fact the entire vocal noisers of the far left are saying.
    No, I watch people and see the racial subtext of all of these continuing arguments....and I hear the silliness from most of my family.
    Last edited by Bujin; 08/06/2009 at 02:13 PM.
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  4. #1004  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    You make it a point to quote from sources such as CNN and the NYTimes - liberal establishments of course.
    All but Fox are biased...I've heard that from you before.

    why is it that Fox blows the competition out of the water and has done so for a long, long time. Why not check it out. Surely if Fox was lying all the time then it would be where MSNBC is with Chris and his legs.
    I don't quote MSNBC precisely because of their bias....yet you can't seem to recognize the bias in Fox News. Why is that?


    Canada style health care? My God man, not even a sick dog wants to go through that.
    Nobody except for a high percentage of Canadians.
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    #1005  
    The NYTimes?! Please. Their slant has been known for years, and its coming back to haunt them in falling circulation. I wouldn't believe them if they told me water is wet.
  6. #1006  
    Quote Originally Posted by ION-q View Post
    The NYTimes?! Please. Their slant has been known for years, and its coming back to haunt them in falling circulation. I wouldn't believe them if they told me water is wet.
    All papers circulation is falling....it's not due to perceived bias, but by the Interwebs. But it's always convenient to discount any sources that disagree with your ideology, which is why CNN isn't good enough for some on these threads, but they're very comfortable with the lack of bias shown by Michelle Malkin.
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  7. #1007  
    ...and don't forget panic ammunition buying which has helped create an ammunition shortage, along with:

    Last month the Department of Homeland Security issued a report on the expansion of right wing extremist groups, saying those organizations are being fueled by the economic downturn and the election of Barack Obama.

    Homegrown hate groups increase in number - Race & ethnicity- msnbc.com
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  8. #1008  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    I make it a point to quote from sources such as CNN and the NYTimes. But you can feel that all media is liberal. That seems to be the conservative viewpoint




    I don't discount it at all. Do you think the stories of insurance executives being paid bonuses for dropping sick people are bogus?

    Do you, by the way, yet realize that NOBODY is talking about a Canada-style health care? So that example is a non-issue.
    Well that is just wrong to say nobody is talking about a Canada-style health care system. Of course, this is where we get stuck in where we think this is going and I just end up But if you believe what Obama said in the past, that this is the ultimate goal, a system run by the government, then a Canada-style system is possible. You disagree about that being the goal, so we will just have to agree to disagree! There....we agree on something

    As for believing your story on an executive getting paid bonuses for turning down health claims, I'm not going to say that didn't happen....in fact....probably did happen. However, we do have bad people in all professions but that doesn't make the whole profession bad. When a policeman beats up an innocent person does that mean all policemen are bad? Does that then mean we need to completely change the police system....rip it from local government....and let the Federal government take it over? I would say no (and, I believe the Constitution would not allow that....but I digress)....but I would agree we need to get rid of that policeman and others like him. So, get rid of that excutive turning down legitimate claims....fire his a*#....yes....fire him! But, don't let that person influence you to think everyone in the health industry denies claims. I have many examples where they paid extremely well!

    But still....tell me why you think it would take 12-18 months for a hip replacement....and ideas?....any clues?
  9. #1009  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    As for believing your story on an executive getting paid bonuses for turning down health claims, I'm not going to say that didn't happen....in fact....probably did happen. However, we do have bad people in all professions but that doesn't make the whole profession bad.
    This Congressional testimony indicates that it's not a few bad apples, but the norm in the industry:

    http://commerce.senate.gov/public/_f...hInsurance.pdf

    But still....tell me why you think it would take 12-18 months for a hip replacement....and ideas?....any clues?
    Don't know. Maybe there are bad doctors.....if a policeman beats up someone, does that make all police officers bad?

    Any clues why most other countries are more satisfied with their health coverage than we are? Or why our system is rated among the lowest of industrialized countries? Any ideas? Any clues?
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  10. #1010  
    Quote Originally Posted by palandri View Post
    ...and don't forget panic ammunition buying which has helped create an ammunition shortage, along with:

    Last month the Department of Homeland Security issued a report on the expansion of right wing extremist groups, saying those organizations are being fueled by the economic downturn and the election of Barack Obama.

    Homegrown hate groups increase in number - Race & ethnicity- msnbc.com
    Hey!....I bought a gun back in January....my first gun! Springfield 40 caliber, semi-auto compact! I've learned how to shoot it....and feel better having it. I hope I never need to use it! WOW....I guess I'm now a "right wing extremist".....whooohooooo....I also will often dress in nice clothes so I can attend Town Hall meetings acting like I've been bused in by some right wing group! (grrrrrrrr....hope Sen Boxer doesn't find out about that!)
  11. #1011  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    Hey!....I bought a gun back in January....my first gun! Springfield 40 caliber, semi-auto compact! I've learned how to shoot it....and feel better having it. I hope I never need to use it! WOW....I guess I'm now a "right wing extremist".....whooohooooo....
    I grew up with guns, and had one in my home until I had kids. Never saw the need for a fully automatic assault rifle. I can also see the logic for keeping folks on the Terrorist Watch List from having one....can you?
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  12. #1012  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    This Congressional testimony indicates that it's not a few bad apples, but the norm in the industry:

    http://commerce.senate.gov/public/_f...hInsurance.pdf



    Don't know. Maybe there are bad doctors.....if a policeman beats up someone, does that make all police officers bad?

    Any clues why most other countries are more satisfied with their health coverage than we are? Or why our system is rated among the lowest of industrialized countries? Any ideas? Any clues?
    Skimmed your article/link.....and that guy does seem rather upset at health insurance companies. As for "purging" certain groups, no doubt that happens...but...I don't think this is unusual in any insurance. I know when my step-son was having some driving issues, and claims were mounting, they were close to taking him off and his rates went up. Were they purging him? No....he was not profitable and so they were having to raise his premium to cover his higher costs to the company. There are many examples of cost needing to be raised in many businesses where costs go up. I know if SC, there is now a cap in place that prevents one company being singled out for an outrageous 100% premium increase based on bad experience. You can basically only get a 25% increase above the insurance carrier's "trend" rating. I can't speak for other states, but knowing SC, we aren't leading the way (grrrrrrrrr). I can't analyze the whole thing....but he clearly has an ax to grind. But I've had much different experiences with clients on their health care....go figure.

    As for everyone liking their health plan better, here is clip you might enjoy: Ooops.....I guess Krugman didn't screen his audience before hand.....he won't make that mistake again. I see interviews with many people who don't seem real excited about their country's health plan, and they aren't Americans. By the way.....and I haven't verified this....but I talked to someone who spent some time in Canada and they pay 17% sales tax to pay for their health care. I will say, at least this is fair in that everyone pays for it....but do the math....and add your local sales tax onto that figure. Not saying we are going to that....but....at least they do it fairly. But ouch.
  13. #1013  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    Hey!....I bought a gun back in January....my first gun! Springfield 40 caliber, semi-auto compact! I've learned how to shoot it....and feel better having it. I hope I never need to use it! WOW....I guess I'm now a "right wing extremist".....whooohooooo....I also will often dress in nice clothes so I can attend Town Hall meetings acting like I've been bused in by some right wing group! (grrrrrrrr....hope Sen Boxer doesn't find out about that!)

    So why did you all of a sudden decide to buy your first gun in January?
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  14. #1014  
    Dropping high risks is perfectly sensible. Dropping them once they get very sick, based upon "preexisting conditions" that have nothing to do with their current condition is criminal. And blaming the "disgruntled employee" is an easy distraction. But the stories are all over the place, if you care to open your eyes and look.
  15. #1015  
    Quote Originally Posted by palandri View Post
    So why did you all of a sudden decide to buy your first gun in January?
    Well....to be honest....I feared that if I ever wanted one I might find that path blocked. I've heard how long it takes to get a gun in other states, and since I have no criminal record, it was easy to get one in SC (took all of 10 minutes) and thought I'd do it now before the Obama government decided it was best that I not have one, or at least, they decided to make it difficult to get one. Just a level of comfort that I have it and hopefully they will never be able to take it away!
  16. #1016  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    Well....to be honest....I feared that if I ever wanted one I might find that path blocked. I've heard how long it takes to get a gun in other states, and since I have no criminal record, it was easy to get one in SC (took all of 10 minutes) and thought I'd do it now before the Obama government decided it was best that I not have one, or at least, they decided to make it difficult to get one. Just a level of comfort that I have it and hopefully they will never be able to take it away!
    This whole thing strikes me as very strange. Even though Obama is more nuanced in his views and more sensitive to a broad range of others' views on both guns and abortion, he has been painted by the NRA and many pro-life groups as the devil incarnate on these issues. He's far more moderate on those issues--and many others--than dozens of other Democrats in politics, even at the presidential level, in recent memory. Yet he's portrayed as someone who is going to steal everyone's guns, and take away law-abiding people's right to buy them, force people to have abortions . . . and on and on. I have my own theory as to why he is painted this way. Guess what it is?
  17. #1017  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    I grew up with guns, and had one in my home until I had kids. Never saw the need for a fully automatic assault rifle. I can also see the logic for keeping folks on the Terrorist Watch List from having one....can you?
    Hey, look at there....I'll agree with you on the Terrorist Watch List....however....those people get guns anyway. I'm surprised, pleasantly so, that you believe in a "Terrorist Watch List". I was at the shooting range the other day and a truck load of "good ole country boys" pilled out of the truck and had all types of guns. I personally don't have a need for them, but, they seemed to be enjoying themselves and were very cautious of what was going on around them. There are alot of things that people have that I don't see the real use in having, but, different strokes for different folks.
  18. #1018  
    Quote Originally Posted by grappler View Post
    This whole thing strikes me as very strange. Even though Obama is more nuanced in his views and more sensitive to a broad range of others' views on both guns and abortion, he has been painted by the NRA and many pro-life groups as the devil incarnate on these issues. He's far more moderate on those issues--and many others--than dozens of other Democrats in politics, even at the presidential level, in recent memory. Yet he's portrayed as someone who is going to steal everyone's guns, and take away law-abiding people's right to buy them, force people to have abortions . . . and on and on. I have my own theory as to why he is painted this way. Guess what it is?
    Oh oh....are you about to play the....wait....wait....the race card? LOL I can't speak for all Consevatives, just me, but I could care less about the color or gender of our President. If I guessed wrong...then please enlighten me.
  19. #1019  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    Hey, look at there....I'll agree with you on the Terrorist Watch List....however....those people get guns anyway. I'm surprised, pleasantly so, that you believe in a "Terrorist Watch List".
    Despite what you may think, not everyone who disagrees with you is a lefty - after all, I never left the Republican Party, it left me.
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  20. #1020  
    Quote Originally Posted by grappler View Post
    This whole thing strikes me as very strange. Even though Obama is more nuanced in his views and more sensitive to a broad range of others' views on both guns and abortion, he has been painted by the NRA and many pro-life groups as the devil incarnate on these issues. He's far more moderate on those issues--and many others--than dozens of other Democrats in politics, even at the presidential level, in recent memory. Yet he's portrayed as someone who is going to steal everyone's guns, and take away law-abiding people's right to buy them, force people to have abortions . . . and on and on. I have my own theory as to why he is painted this way. Guess what it is?
    Oh....but to address the issue....it isn't necessarily that I'm concerned with Obama being the problem....it's that Congress has a bunch of folks on the far left, and with the liberals controlling the Legislative and Executive branches....well....they can get things through. Things get stuck on bills, they aren't read, and next thing you know.....it takes a year to buy a gun and everyone is shocked....shocked that it wasn't noticed.

    Speaking of the liberal control of Washington....I am quite amused that health care is even an issue. Just bring a single payer system to a vote....liberals can vote it through....Obama can sign it....and BAM.....we have socialism. Don't blame the Conservatives....even if everyone of the Republicans vote against it (which they better do)....the dems can get it through. If they believe in it....what's the problem? Hmm...I wonder....are some concerned that it could effect their ability to get re-elected?

    By the way TERM LIMITS!!!!! Nothing will get solved in this country until we have TERM LIMITS.

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