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  1. #981  
    Quote Originally Posted by grappler View Post
    ...I know paying taxes is a drag, but why is that the only thing that arouses any passion among American conservatives anymore? Doesn't "saving America" involve something besides tax cuts once in a while?

    Bravo!
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  2. #982  
    Quote Originally Posted by grappler View Post
    Maybe it's just me, but I don't recall a 54-page off-topic thread in the TreoCentral days about:

    (1) The worst attack on American soil since Pearl Harbor occurring despite explicit warnings
    I think the previous administration (Clinton) could also have plenty of blame here. After all, the terrorists (oops, not supposed to use that word anymore, are we?) did start planning their attack while Clinton was Prez.

    Quote Originally Posted by grappler View Post
    (2) An unjustified, obscenely expensive war against a country that had nothing to do with (1)
    I disagree...and besides...we took care of a dictator who while in jail made it clear he had every intention of starting his WMD program back. Saw that on 60 Minutes, by the way, didn't get much attention from the "main stream" media.....hmmm....wonder why?

    Quote Originally Posted by grappler View Post
    (3) The absence of WMDs in Iraq (the supposed
    justification for (2))
    Funny....every country in the world also believed he had WMDs....makes you realize how crazy Hussein (Saddam, not Obama) was as all he had to do was let us look where we wanted to look and we wouldn't have gone in. But no, he had to act like a tough guy.

    Quote Originally Posted by grappler View Post
    (4) The utter lack of planning for the Iraqi occupation, which resulted in unnecessary death and destruction for both Americans and Iraqis, as well as the irrevocable loss of irreplaceable archeological artifacts dating from the dawn of civilization (for an eye-opening view of these outrages, prominently featuring Republicans and military experts, see the film "No End In Sight")
    Again....blame Hussein for not letting the UN inspectors look where they wanted to look. I again disagree...where as I HATE the loss of any American life over there, and the horrible injuries, I take the stance that it is better for our military to deal with these nuts over there (keep them busy) than for folks like you and me (civilians) dealing with the nuts on our own soil. I got to believe that while we kept them busy, killed some of them, and put some behind bars, we likely prevented other attacks on our soil. I can't prove that, of course, because additional attacks DIDN'T happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by grappler View Post
    (5) The lack of adequate armor for our troops' vehicles, and the unnecessary deaths and maiming that occurred as a result
    Well....I can't argue that point....I am always disappointed when our troops don't have the proper equipment. We have a local company here in Charleston SC that makes these amazing vehicles but I guess they just weren't ready in time but I see them being shipped out.

    Quote Originally Posted by grappler View Post
    (6) Illegal wiretapping of American citizens
    I don't think I've been wire tapped....so this doesn't really worry me. But if the Gov believes that it is in the best interest of the defense of the country to wire tap "Abdul" because he has been doing or buying suspicious items, I honestly don't have a problem with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by grappler View Post
    (7) The travesty of FEMA's response to Katrina, and the human tragedy that resulted--and continues to this day
    Oh yes....the Katrina issue....are you also going to knock the idiotic Mayor of N.O.? Oh wait....he's a black guy...can't be critical of him. That guy should have been sent packing....living in a town that has seen a hurricane or two (fingers crossed for another hurricane free year), he did not adequately do what was needed to protect the citizens of N.O.

    Quote Originally Posted by grappler View Post
    (8) The blatant politicization of the Department of Justice
    Okay...not sure what you mean here....gonna skip this one.

    Quote Originally Posted by grappler View Post
    (9) The adoption of torture and indefinite detention without trial as official American policy
    Again....we disagree here. Not enough space to go into this....but I do put Americans first....yes, I'm an arrogant American (sooooo sorry...wait....Obama has already begged the world to forgive us for being arrogant). All for saving American lives and have no problem with this one.

    Quote Originally Posted by grappler View Post
    (10) The manipulation of scientific data for political ends, and the gagging and harassment of scientists who objected
    What? I guess you're referring to the myth that man is causing global warming? If anyone is manipulating data, it's Al Gore....by the way....where is he flying today in his private jet?

    Quote Originally Posted by grappler View Post
    Need more?
    Nope....unless you want to try and prove something again.

    Quote Originally Posted by grappler View Post
    I know paying taxes is a drag, but why is that the only thing that arouses any passion among American conservatives anymore? Doesn't "saving America" involve something besides tax cuts once in a while?
    Why is it that what arouses passion among liberals is when Americans start to question the government? Obama said back in '04 that he didn't understand why we can't "take our time" passing bills. Then in his election run, he talks about giving Americans time to read bills before they are passed. Now, when Americans do read them (as he tried to rush it through before we could) the liberals get upset that the citizens know more about the bills then the men and women voting on them! Doesn't that make YOU mad?
  3. #983  
    Quote Originally Posted by grappler View Post
    I know paying taxes is a drag, but why is that the only thing that arouses any passion among American conservatives anymore? Doesn't "saving America" involve something besides tax cuts once in a while?
    I'm offended....you know that is totally not true. They also get passionate about:
    - preventing gay marriage, so that their marriages don't turn gay
    - birth certificates for any minority Presidents
    - the right to have assault rifles....you know, for home protection.
    - ensuring that decisions are made by religious faith and ideology rather than science.
    - driving any moderates out of the party
    - stoking white anxiety and fear

    All in all, it's a very broad agenda.
    Everything's Amazing and Nobody's Happy

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  4. #984  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    I'm offended....you know that is totally not true. They also get passionate about:
    - preventing gay marriage, so that their marriages don't turn gay
    - birth certificates for any minority Presidents
    - the right to have assault rifles....you know, for home protection.
    - ensuring that decisions are made by religious faith and ideology rather than science.
    - driving any moderates out of the party
    - stoking white anxiety and fear

    All in all, it's a very broad agenda.
    All I know is that if a Republican was President, I'd be reporting you to the White House for all those "fishy" comments. Oh oh....looks like the White House goons are showing up at my office.....gotta go.....
  5. #985  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    All I know is that if a Republican was President, I'd be reporting you to the White House for all those "fishy" comments. Oh oh....looks like the White House goons are showing up at my office.....gotta go.....
    What a coincidence, I have to go as well. FreedomWorks has arranged a "grass roots" protest about my comments outside my house. They've asked me to deal with them quickly.... apparently their bus needs to leave for their next "spontaneous" public forum protest in Jersey.
    Everything's Amazing and Nobody's Happy

    Treo600 --> Treo650-->PPC6700-->Treo700P-->Treo755P-->Treo800W --> Touch Pro-->Palm Pre --> EVO 4G
  6. #986  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    I think the previous administration (Clinton) could also have plenty of blame here. After all, the terrorists (oops, not supposed to use that word anymore, are we?) did start planning their attack while Clinton was Prez.
    I see. So if we get attacked next year, you'll blame Bush? Yeah, right, uh-huh. It's documented that the NIE was ignored, and that Richard Clarke was kicked downstairs because he wouldn't shut up about the real threat and focus on Iraq.

    I disagree...and besides...we took care of a dictator who while in jail made it clear he had every intention of starting his WMD program back. Saw that on 60 Minutes, by the way, didn't get much attention from the "main stream" media.....hmmm....wonder why?
    You can't have it both ways. Either Hussein was a crazy blowhard or he wasn't. Why should I believe anything he says about his "intentions" in a 60 Minutes interview over the actual physical evidence that we now have in hand, which is in agreement with what was being assembled by Hans Blix et al. until we cut those efforts short 'cause Bush needed to get his war on?

    Funny....every country in the world also believed he had WMDs....makes you realize how crazy Hussein (Saddam, not Obama) was as all he had to do was let us look where we wanted to look and we wouldn't have gone in. But no, he had to act like a tough guy.
    Revisionist history. Weapons inspections were ongoing. See above.


    Again....blame Hussein for not letting the UN inspectors look where they wanted to look. I again disagree...where as I HATE the loss of any American life over there, and the horrible injuries, I take the stance that it is better for our military to deal with these nuts over there (keep them busy) than for folks like you and me (civilians) dealing with the nuts on our own soil. I got to believe that while we kept them busy, killed some of them, and put some behind bars, we likely prevented other attacks on our soil. I can't prove that, of course, because additional attacks DIDN'T happen.
    Again, I highly recommend No End In Sight. Sorry, I don't blame Saddam Hussein for failing to make proper preparations for what ensued after we invaded his country. And what, precisely, is your evidence that members of the Iraqi counterinsurgency (I presume that's who you mean by "nuts"?) had/have either the desire or wherewithal to commit a terrorist act within the borders of the most powerful country on Earth? Are you seriously proposing that American foreign policy should consist of sending our military to kill all the world's "nuts" who may have "intentions" to someday "do something," but also somehow uphold a bizarre exception for those countries from which people came and actually *did* do something?


    Well....I can't argue that point....I am always disappointed when our troops don't have the proper equipment. We have a local company here in Charleston SC that makes these amazing vehicles but I guess they just weren't ready in time but I see them being shipped out.
    Everybody's crying "what's the rush" about health insurance reform, though, aren't they? Strange we didn't hear from the same folks that about the invasion of Iraq when weapons inspections were in progress.

    I don't think I've been wire tapped....so this doesn't really worry me. But if the Gov believes that it is in the best interest of the defense of the country to wire tap "Abdul" because he has been doing or buying suspicious items, I honestly don't have a problem with it.
    That's a big "but," isn't it? It's not that I have a problem with it, it's the Constitution that has a problem with it, and, in the end, the Constitution is all America is. "The government can't run anything properly, but it's fine with me if they spy on us." (BTW, the dude who killed all those people in Oklahoma City wasn't named "Abdul," so I'm not sure that's a great rule-of-thumb.)

    Oh yes....the Katrina issue....are you also going to knock the idiotic Mayor of N.O.? Oh wait....he's a black guy...can't be critical of him. That guy should have been sent packing....living in a town that has seen a hurricane or two (fingers crossed for another hurricane free year), he did not adequately do what was needed to protect the citizens of N.O.
    Please don't make presumptions about whether I'll criticize someone or not depending on his or her race. However, whatever Ray Nagin's culpability was, it doesn't excuse the de facto dismantling and politicization of FEMA, and the incompetent response to Katrina that resulted.

    Again....we disagree here. Not enough space to go into this....but I do put Americans first....yes, I'm an arrogant American (sooooo sorry...wait....Obama has already begged the world to forgive us for being arrogant). All for saving American lives and have no problem with this one.
    I know it's fashionable to caricature everything that Obama says, but what he has said about America's role in the world, and the role of other countries in making a contribution and cleaning up their own acts, is far more nuanced than that. The fact that government involvement in health care--which has already been in place for decades--terrifies you, but you don't have any problem with state-sponsored torture and incarceration without charge or trial--yeah, I'd say we part ways here.

    What? I guess you're referring to the myth that man is causing global warming? If anyone is manipulating data, it's Al Gore....by the way....where is he flying today in his private jet?
    Unfortunately science isn't a buffet. The same principles of physics that have enabled the development of cool stuff like the Pre (we both like that, right?) apply to the rest of the universe as well. As Al Gore might put it, that may be "inconvenient," but he is nothing more than a spokesperson for the overwhelming consensus among climate scientists.

    Why is it that what arouses passion among liberals is when Americans start to question the government?
    Way to miss my point. What I was expressing was that frustration that many Americans did *not* question their government with such passion until the health insurance reform initiative . . . even when the federal government--and the deficit--grew at exponential and unprecedented levels because of corruption and overspending on an unnecessary war. Or maybe I just missed all the outraged off-topic threads on TreoCentral back then . . .

    Obama said back in '04 that he didn't understand why we can't "take our time" passing bills. Then in his election run, he talks about giving Americans time to read bills before they are passed. Now, when Americans do read them (as he tried to rush it through before we could) the liberals get upset that the citizens know more about the bills then the men and women voting on them! Doesn't that make YOU mad?
    What makes me mad is all the lies and distortion about what is in those bills. Are these knowledgeable Americans you refer to the same ones screaming that "the government better keep their hands off my Medicare"?
  7. #987  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    What a coincidence, I have to go as well. FreedomWorks has arranged a "grass roots" protest about my comments outside my house. They've asked me to deal with them quickly.... apparently their bus needs to leave for their next "spontaneous" public forum protest in Jersey.
    And yet you'll defend ACORN I'm sure. It's okay for ACORN to do all the crazy and wild things they do, heck, the democrats even allow men in camaflouge with night sticks in hand to stand outside polling locations (Philly?), but God forbid citizens show up to protest the socialist health care program Obama is pushing. By the way....I will go on record as saying when I went to the Charleston Tea Party (we have great tea down here in the South, btw) I was not bused in....nor was I contacted by anyone to attend (I will make sure I don't wear very nice clothing next time, Boxer seems to think that is a sure sign you've been bused in, wearing nice clothes). I would attend a Town Hall meeting here, but all my reps are good Republicans and I don't need to "get in their face" (another suggestion Obama made when he was running for Prez).
  8. #988  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    And yet you'll defend ACORN I'm sure. It's okay for ACORN to do all the crazy and wild things they do, heck, the democrats even allow men in camaflouge with night sticks in hand to stand outside polling locations (Philly?), but God forbid citizens show up to protest the socialist health care program Obama is pushing.
    Ah, yes, ACORN is doing evil things by getting people to vote. The accusation by McCain that ACORN was involved in voter fraud was termed by factcheck.org as "breathtakingly inaccurate". And, though they've become a convenient scapegoat by conservatives, the reality is that there is no evidence that ACORN has done any of the crazy allegations such as yours above.

    It's awfully reassuring to have a villain like the "evil black men with night sticks" to stoke the white fear in the masses, isn't it? Lack of any evidence doesn't matter...it's simply a great fear tactic that Obama has his "army of minorities" to strongarm the white folks.

    And that is the entire undercurrent of the birther movement, the tea parties, the Sotomayor confirmation, health care, etc. It's the "I want my country back" from the minorities argument.

    It's why there is no reasoning in this political climate - you can't argue logic, when one side is stoking racial fear. It's sad, but that's why I have no interest in debating your particular conspiracy theories.
    Last edited by Bujin; 08/06/2009 at 11:09 AM.
    Everything's Amazing and Nobody's Happy

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  9. #989  
    Quote Originally Posted by grappler View Post
    Maybe it's just me, but I don't recall a 54-page off-topic thread in the TreoCentral days about:
    How do you expect to hold people accountable for your recall?
    (1) The worst attack on American soil since Pearl Harbor occurring despite explicit warnings
    I'm not going to do all your research for you, but there were actually quite a few 9/11 related threads, just a quick search from that time period turned up...
    http://discussion.treocentral.com/of...whodoneit.html
    http://discussion.treocentral.com/of...ither-way.html
    http://discussion.treocentral.com/of...ay-school.html

    As for the rest of your examples, I'm sure that nearly all of them have been brought up. Off Topic has ranged from balanced to 'left' dominated to 'right' dominated at various points. Whether you recall them being discussed is only indicative that you either haven't been around long, or that your recall is not very good. Perhaps instead of complaining or feeling persecuted, you should start a different thread to address something you're concerned with?

    (10) The manipulation of scientific data for political ends, and the gagging and harassment of scientists who objected
    Now you're just being lazy. You didn't even have to leave the first page of Off Topic to find the Global Warming thread. It has plenty of accusations of that very thing from both proponents and opponents of 'both' sides of the debate.
    Need more?

    I know paying taxes is a drag, but why is that the only thing that arouses any passion among American conservatives anymore? Doesn't "saving America" involve something besides tax cuts once in a while?
    Sure. Sometimes it involves spending more on the military or national concealed carry laws.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  10. #990  
    Quote Originally Posted by grappler View Post
    What makes me mad is all the lies and distortion about what is in those bills. Are these knowledgeable Americans you refer to the same ones screaming that "the government better keep their hands off my Medicare"?
    Whew....I wish I had time to reply...again....to all your "issues"....but I have to work so I can afford the nice clothing that makes me stand out according to Boxer, excuse me, Senator Boxer (she has earned that! LOL)

    I won't assume you didn't read HR 3200, but, I did find buried in there most of what was being talked about. I will agree it was just one bill (out of 4 or 5), but it appeared to be the one getting most traction. But I did read parts of it, and probably read more than most of our representatives. I think one democrat even was giving a speech somewhere and said it would be impossible for him and his staff, without a couple of attorneys available to interpret it, to read it. And yet, I'll guarantee you the man was willing to pull the "yes" lever for it. Give me a break, you really feel comfortable with our reps (both parties) voting on something that they don't even read? Really? Would you sign a business contract without reading it first?

    This is the first step towards socialist health care which the left fringe want in this country....it offers them POWER because they will grab hold of yet another part of peoples lives. Apparently, we stupid citizens just can't survive without the government holding our hands (wait, is that a hand grabbing my wallet???). I posted another example of a Canadian having to come to America recently for a hip replacement. Would have been 12-18 months there before he could get the surgery. You say it is elective? Well, pain ain't elective and he said "the system" (I loved how he referred to his health care as "the system") just wouldn't allow him to get the surgery there even if he paid for it himself (which he did in the US I'm sure). Yes....this is "the system" we need here in America.....NOT.
  11. #991  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    How do you expect to hold people accountable for your recall?

    I'm not going to do all your research for you, but there were actually quite a few 9/11 related threads, just a quick search from that time period turned up...
    http://discussion.treocentral.com/of...whodoneit.html
    http://discussion.treocentral.com/of...ither-way.html
    http://discussion.treocentral.com/of...ay-school.html
    Fair enough. That's a sound argument, and I probably shouldn't have framed my points that way. I'll look at the threads you reference. I don't doubt that there were threads on 911 . . . I was referring specifically to threads mentioning the NIE, etc.

    As for the rest of your examples, I'm sure that nearly all of them have been brought up. Off Topic has ranged from balanced to 'left' dominated to 'right' dominated at various points. Whether you recall them being discussed is only indicative that you either haven't been around long, or that your recall is not very good. Perhaps instead of complaining or feeling persecuted, you should start a different thread to address something you're concerned with?
    Again, I accept those criticisms. You've been around longer, and made many more comments than I have. I honestly don't "feel persecuted," and I'll try to avoid that tone in the future.

    The Pre's a nice phone, eh?
  12. #992  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    Ah, yes, ACORN is doing evil things by getting people to vote. It's awfully reassuring to have a villain like the "evil black men with night sticks" to stoke the white fear in the masses, isn't it? Do you have any evidence, other than Michelle Malkin, that ACORN has taken part in any sort of voter intimidation? Of course not...it's simply that Obama has his "army of minorities" to strongarm the white folks.

    And that is the entire undercurrent of the birther movement, the tea parties, the Sotomayor confirmation, health care, etc. It's the "I want my country back" from the minorities argument.

    It's why there is no reasoning in this political climate - you can't argue logic, when one side is stoking racial fear. It's sad, but that's why I have no interest in debating your particular conspiracy theories.
    Because you can't debate the facts my friend....I simply look at why others come here to get health care when their "systems" are so good. I just don't hear about others going to other countries unless it is for experimental treatment (which government rationed health care won't cover either, btw).

    So if we are unfortunate and get socialized medicine, get ready to wait on your phone call from the lottery people to know when you can go to the doctor....but don't miss that appointment....you'll likely be put in the back of the line.
  13. #993  
    Quote Originally Posted by grappler View Post
    The Pre's a nice phone, eh?
    Yes it is!
  14. #994  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    How do you expect to hold people accountable for your recall?

    I'm not going to do all your research for you, but there were actually quite a few 9/11 related threads, just a quick search from that time period turned up...
    http://discussion.treocentral.com/of...whodoneit.html
    http://discussion.treocentral.com/of...ither-way.html
    http://discussion.treocentral.com/of...ay-school.html
    A quick look (I gotta do some work today!) at those threads shows that they're each 4 pages long--50 pages shorter than the health insurance thread so far!

    A lot of that difference might have to do with fewer members in those days, etc., but it also means is that those topics didn't hang around the "Today's Posts" window (which is my usual portal to the forums) for very long. If we take the 50 additional pages of this thread, and the fact that it's been one of the more prominent threads on a *cellphone forum* for weeks, as a sort of "passion index," I think my original point about the curious selectivity of activism in response to issues of government power still stands.
  15. #995  
    Quote Originally Posted by grappler View Post
    The Pre's a nice phone, eh?
    Seems nice enough, but I'm not willing to switch to Sprint, so I'm still using a Centro at the moment. Don't forget that the OT forum is shared between PreCentral and TreoCentral.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  16. #996  
    Quote Originally Posted by grappler View Post
    A quick look (I gotta do some work today!) at those threads shows that they're each 4 pages long--50 pages shorter than the health insurance thread so far!
    I have work to do as well, which is why I only found the ones that were clustered relatively close to the date in question.
    A lot of that difference might have to do with fewer members in those days,
    I'm not sure if that's the biggest factor. Most of these sorts of threads lately only have a 'few' polarized respondents generating most of the traffic. In many cases, they're just spitting 'their side' of the issue at the 'other side' and not having a real discussion anyway.
    etc., but it also means is that those topics didn't hang around the "Today's Posts" window (which is my usual portal to the forums) for very long.
    It would not be wise to assume that my single sampling would be anywhere near indicative of anything. If a thread lasted longer (which is likely), it would not have been in the couple pages I looked at.
    If we take the 50 additional pages of this thread, and the fact that it's been one of the more prominent threads on a *cellphone forum* for weeks, as a sort of "passion index," I think my original point about the curious selectivity of activism in response to issues of government power still stands.
    I think it's only curious within a narrow time window. To be realistic, health care is a current news issue, so it has 'top of mind' relevance. Global Warming (which has quite a bit longer lifetime than this thread) has been resurrected by a member of the 'right' who feels that 'his side' of the issue was under represented and may be gaining momentum. Many of the other issues are 'old news' since they've long fallen out of the current news cycle, or were never directly relevant to nearly all the participants (e.g. Katrina). That being said, I'm personally critical of a 'passion index' as to the quality of any discussion. IMO, passion gets in the way of discussion in most cases.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  17. #997  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    Ah, yes, ACORN is doing evil things by getting people to vote. The accusation by McCain that ACORN was involved in voter fraud was termed by factcheck.org as "breathtakingly inaccurate". And, though they've become a convenient scapegoat by conservatives, the reality is that there is no evidence that ACORN has done any of the crazy allegations such as yours above.

    It's awfully reassuring to have a villain like the "evil black men with night sticks" to stoke the white fear in the masses, isn't it? Lack of any evidence doesn't matter...it's simply a great fear tactic that Obama has his "army of minorities" to strongarm the white folks.

    And that is the entire undercurrent of the birther movement, the tea parties, the Sotomayor confirmation, health care, etc. It's the "I want my country back" from the minorities argument.

    It's why there is no reasoning in this political climate - you can't argue logic, when one side is stoking racial fear. It's sad, but that's why I have no interest in debating your particular conspiracy theories.
    I'm sorry....but I've got to comment on something you have quotes around relating to what I supposedly said. You quote me above in YOUR post as saying "evil black men with night sticks".....ummmm.....my exact quote was "men in camaflouge with night sticks". I might be guilty of misspelling camaflouge (oops, camouflage), but it was you, the liberal, who added "evil black".....interesting how you felt that was needed to be added, very interesting. So the person (you) who claims to be the man of facts and being so accurate is caught quoting me completely wrong. I guess I'm going to have to start checking all your links and quotes as you tend to take liberty with quoting things so they say what you want them to say.
  18. #998  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    I'm sorry....but I've got to comment on something you have quotes around relating to what I supposedly said. You quote me above in YOUR post as saying "evil black men with night sticks".....ummmm.....my exact quote was "men in camaflouge with night sticks". I might be guilty of misspelling camaflouge (oops, camouflage), but it was you, the liberal, who added "evil black".....interesting how you felt that was needed to be added, very interesting. So the person (you) who claims to be the man of facts and being so accurate is caught quoting me completely wrong.
    I did not claim that the "evil black men" was a quote from you; however, it is definitely the reason for the conservative scapegoating of ACORN, for having the gall to try to increase voter turnout in lower-income, largely minority neighborhoods.

    Just as the birther movement, the "palling around with terrorists", Sotomayor, Gates, universal health care - all attempts to paint the current administration as different....foreign....minority. Designed to fan the flames of white fear of the changing demographic, which is why we now have crazed folks screaming "I want my country back".

    It's an strategy to convince folks that, rather than think for themselves, they should trust the rich, white power structure and ignore data, evidence, science and reality....which allows the rich to get richer, while convincing folks that the accumulation of wealth to the top 1% will trickle down to them.

    And for the record, I'm an independent, not a liberal....except by the current Republican definition, which is "anyone who is not a far right conservative". I'm a liberal in the same way that the Republicans define Powell and McCain (2000) as a liberal - which is why I left the Republican Party during the Bush II administration. I voted for Reagan, Bush I, and Dole. (the sad thing is that, despite the Republicans worship of Reagan, he could never get the Republican nomination in this era of evangelical pandering).


    I guess I'm going to have to start checking all your links and quotes as you tend to take liberty with quoting things so they say what you want them to say.
    You can check any of my links or quotes....heck, I'd be happy if you'd just read links I posted once in awhile.
    Last edited by Bujin; 08/06/2009 at 01:37 PM.
    Everything's Amazing and Nobody's Happy

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  19. #999  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    I did not claim that the "evil black men" was a quote from you; however, it is definitely the reason for the conservative scapegoating of ACORN, for having the gall to try to increase voter turnout in lower-income, largely minority neighborhoods.

    Just as the birther movement, the "palling around with terrorists", Sotomayor, Gates, universal health care - all attempts to paint the current administration as different....foreign....minority. Designed to fan the flames of white fear of the changing demographic, which is why we now have crazed folks screaming "I want my country back".

    It's an strategy to convince folks that, rather than think for themselves, they should trust the rich, white power structure....which allows the rich to get richer, while convincing folks that the accumulation of wealth to the top 1% will trickle down to them.

    The sad thing is that, despite the Republicans worship of Reagan, he could never get the Republican nomination in this era.




    I'd be happy if you'd just read links I posted once in awhile.
    Funny....good cover on you not wanting to apologize for miss quoting me. But when you reply specifically to someone's post, and put quotation marks around a line (in which part was my quote), if someone were to read your post they would think you were quoting that person. You are very good (a compliment!) at laying down BS to cover yourself when you know you've been caught.

    I will occasionally read one of your links, but I try not to because most of the time they are from liberal publications or journalist which put their own liberal slant on things, just like you do, and I get enough of that. But to be fair, most of my links are from more conservative publications and they certainly have their conservative slant. At least I'm willing to admit that...what I get from you is you believe that the liberal opinion is correct, case closed. For example, I can't say for sure that Obama will eventually move the country to a "single payer, or universal" style of health coverage. However, I have seen video of him from his past (within the past 5 years) where he clearly indicates that is what he would like to see. In one clip I saw, he even admitted that this would have to go in steps in order to make it happen. So....he can say now that he has no intention of taking it to this extreme, but not toooooo long ago he clearly had that on his radar. Maybe his view has changed? Who knows....I'm just not willing to trust him on that especially since he has said before it would need to go in steps. My interpretation of that? We have to sneak it by the people until before we know it "poof", socialized medicine.

    By the way....do you think my example of the 74 year old man who needed a hip replacement was bogus? Do you think it is fair that he was going to have to wait 12-18 months to get the elective surgery (his words, not mine) done? If you believe this to be a true case, why would you think it would take so long to get this procedure done in Canada but no wait here in the US? How would you explain that? Just curious....please....I want to learn.
  20. #1000  
    Birth certificates for any minority presidents? Really? Then when McCain was asked, why did McCain produce his immediately? If good for McCain, why not Barry? Race is not an issue and you know it.

    Gay marriage? Why define a centuries old institution for a small minority? Loud noise and slandering is why and the liberal side does it very well.

    The right to have assault rifles? Are you telling me I cannot have one? Why not? We are sure you know that people kill, not guns. You are just making a point using base emotion.

    Is science always right? Is Al Gore right? There is much more to support 1 God then there is no God.

    McCain a moderate? Really? Again you know he is not.

    Stoking white anxiety and fear? Goodness, you sure do not pay attention to what Nancy, Harry, Al, Barry, and in fact the entire vocal noisers of the far left are saying. If it ain't done now!!!!!!!!!! 10', flooding, not sustainable, and just to think that Nancy got another 3 jets for her and fellow "law makers" to use and to jet around the world. Why a law maker needs to jet around is just plain not necessary. Law makers are there to screw the public. Let the president get laughed at outside the country.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    I'm offended....you know that is totally not true. They also get passionate about:
    - preventing gay marriage, so that their marriages don't turn gay
    - birth certificates for any minority Presidents
    - the right to have assault rifles....you know, for home protection.
    - ensuring that decisions are made by religious faith and ideology rather than science.
    - driving any moderates out of the party
    - stoking white anxiety and fear

    All in all, it's a very broad agenda.

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