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  1. Micael's Avatar
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       #941  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof View Post
    Clearly someone who can't, hasn't or refuses to read the current plan in the House. The party of No. Cracks me up. I am not saying NO to healthcare reform. I am saying no to this healthcare reform. I am saying no to rushing it through so it cant be undone. I am saying no to paying for 'free' services for people who are here illegally. I am saying no to higher taxes.
    If you want to pay for everyone's healthcare so bad why dont you just post your credit car number(s) and I'll use them for my next co-pay.
    Ditto, and the new avatar is da bomb, btw! I saw that image, and wish I'd thought of that first! harr!
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  2. #942  
    I just tried to bring up another old thread again about what we do for a living. It seems only Woof has listed his job in the other thread, as an insurance executive. I added my former job and any of you fellas want to join it please do. Its interesting to know a person's background when you are talking with them.
  3. #943  
    Let's play a fun game......it's called:

    Cash for ___________ (fill in the blank).

    I'll start....."Cash for TV Tubes". Seems like we should be able to get money from the government (where does that money come from any way?) for a new energy efficient TV for those old tube TVs. Energy savings and we help the folks in the retail and technology market!
  4. #944  
    Quote Originally Posted by E.LesterBrown View Post
    I just tried to bring up another old thread again about what we do for a living. It seems only Woof has listed his job in the other thread, as an insurance executive. I added my former job and any of you fellas want to join it please do. Its interesting to know a person's background when you are talking with them.
    Hey Lester....nice to see you back! Seems like if Woof is an insurance executive he should also be somewhat knowledgeable on the subject....I think that is good. By the way, just because one is an "insurance executive" does not mean that he/she is connected to a health insurance company. Most insurance companies out there do not market health insurance as it isn't a hugely profitable book of business. Many companies who used to market health insurance got out exactly for that reason. Just saying....
  5. Micael's Avatar
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       #945  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    Let's play a fun game......it's called:

    Cash for ___________ (fill in the blank).

    I'll start....."Cash for TV Tubes". Seems like we should be able to get money from the government (where does that money come from any way?) for a new energy efficient TV for those old tube TVs. Energy savings and we help the folks in the retail and technology market!
    Hrmm... you may have something there! I *still* don't have an hd flat screen!

    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  6. #946  
    Here are my facts:

    My insurance plans was 720/month with $5,000.00 deductible. That is $13,500 a year before the insurance pays a single penny. Congress passed a law a year or so ago and now I qualify for a government plan which is $180/month and $1000.00 deductible. Same doctors, although the list is a lot less now compared to my 13K plan. I don't have too, but I call the insurance before I see a specialist just to be in the clear.

    So far I have no complains about the plan and I even like it better. Medicine is cheaper, co-pays are low and out of pocket is low. I did noticed that what the plan pays the doctors is close to 70% less than what the doctor charges.

    The idea that a private for profit organization is going to put my interest ahead of theirs is ludicrous. I had a friend from high school who had cancer and the insurance company refused to pay for her treatment. Why? Obviously it wasn't profitable. Will the government do the same, I don't know, but The idea that a government plan's goal is to kill you is just retarded.

    Do you really want your health care to be decided on the basis of how profitable it is. If I am sick and poor, should I die? If you are sick and poor should I pay for your care?

    Communism takes care of the needed, but it is inefficient and stifles innovation. Free market is great at efficiency and innovation but only takes care of the few.
  7. #947  



    My Phone & My Wife's Phone Two Unlocked GSM Treo Pro's

  8. #948  
    Quote Originally Posted by renerbl View Post
    Here are my facts:

    My insurance plans was 720/month with $5,000.00 deductible. That is $13,500 a year before the insurance pays a single penny. Congress passed a law a year or so ago and now I qualify for a government plan which is $180/month and $1000.00 deductible. Same doctors, although the list is a lot less now compared to my 13K plan. I don't have too, but I call the insurance before I see a specialist just to be in the clear.

    So far I have no complains about the plan and I even like it better. Medicine is cheaper, co-pays are low and out of pocket is low. I did noticed that what the plan pays the doctors is close to 70% less than what the doctor charges.

    The idea that a private for profit organization is going to put my interest ahead of theirs is ludicrous. I had a friend from high school who had cancer and the insurance company refused to pay for her treatment. Why? Obviously it wasn't profitable. Will the government do the same, I don't know, but The idea that a government plan's goal is to kill you is just retarded.

    Do you really want your health care to be decided on the basis of how profitable it is. If I am sick and poor, should I die? If you are sick and poor should I pay for your care?

    Communism takes care of the needed, but it is inefficient and stifles innovation. Free market is great at efficiency and innovation but only takes care of the few.
    Okay....I'll bite....and you don't have to answer these questions if you don't want to, but just curious. How old are you? What government plan is this? What qualified you for it? How long have you been on it?

    As for your friend....I am sorry about her condition. So she had the coverage before her cancer was found and yet they still denied it? What type of plan was it, individual or group? If group, how long had she been on the plan and did she have coverage prior to this plan? By the way, if she had an individual plan, there are really cheap plans out there that market their plans as "comprehensive coverage", with very low premiums, and a lot of small print. Many times these cheap plans with small print are pretty bad, but the low premium sucks people in.

    As we have often learned in life, if something seems too good to be true, it often is.
  9. Micael's Avatar
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       #949  
    First off, nice job following Nancy's talking points for August. You get an A.

    Quote Originally Posted by renerbl View Post
    Here are my facts:

    My insurance plans was 720/month with $5,000.00 deductible. That is $13,500 a year before the insurance pays a single penny. Congress passed a law a year or so ago and now I qualify for a government plan which is $180/month and $1000.00 deductible. Same doctors, although the list is a lot less now compared to my 13K plan. I don't have too, but I call the insurance before I see a specialist just to be in the clear.
    Good for you, and for now, your choice. This isn't, however, the plan that Obama is offering.
    So far I have no complains about the plan and I even like it better. Medicine is cheaper, co-pays are low and out of pocket is low. I did noticed that what the plan pays the doctors is close to 70% less than what the doctor charges.
    Glad those greedy doctors are taking less! And that should keep those new doctors anxious to get through the 250k it costs to get through medical school!
    The idea that a private for profit organization is going to put my interest ahead of theirs is ludicrous.
    I'm with a private organization, and yes. We put the interest of the patient over profit. We're humans. We have children. We have families. You obviously are talking from your rear and know nothing about the health insurance companies. But again, good job following Nancy's talking points. Right on target. Demonize the insurance companies.
    I had a friend from high school who had cancer and the insurance company refused to pay for her treatment. Why? Obviously it wasn't profitable. Will the government do the same, I don't know, but The idea that a government plan's goal is to kill you is just retarded.
    Ok, this is such BS. I had a friend of a sister of a friend that had an aunt whose insurance company refused to pay for her treatment. Blah blah blah... Please stop wasting our time with this crap. What company refused which patient? Its a lie, and you know it.
    Do you really want your health care to be decided on the basis of how profitable it is.
    Do you really want your healthcare decided by political appointees in some office in DC?
    If I am sick and poor, should I die? If you are sick and poor should I pay for your care?
    If I'm old and will die soon anyway, should a be allowed to tax a rationed single player system?
    Communism takes care of the needed, but it is inefficient and stifles innovation. Free market is great at efficiency and innovation but only takes care of the few.
    This post is crap.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  10. #950  
    The plan's name is TRICARE. I don't have the details of my friend's plan. I am sure the insurance company did not target her, but the treatment. I later found out that many insurance companies don't cover the procedure because it is not cost effective. So an executive bureaucrat, instead of a government bureaucrat was responsible for making the decision.

    I think we, the public, are getting manipulated by special interest groups and not providing us with the real information. The problem can be resolved if we stick to the facts and look at the real problem. I really want to know the facts. Is the proposed government plan like TRICARE/Blue Cross/<put your plan here>, if so I am for it. If not, then what is the difference.

    I was all for the public option until I found out it was going to cost me 10-13% of my income then hell no. It wasn't the argument that Obama wants to socialized everything or that government bureaucrat are going to plan your health from a basement that changed my mind.

    This problem only has two parameters cost and quality the rest is noise.
  11. #951  
    Quote Originally Posted by zelgo View Post
    TRICARE is the military's health plan.

    Funny, people who support "socialized medicine" for our veterans and their VA system, don't want that for the rest of us.

    The VA system has, in recent years, shown excellent healthcare quality overall and is able to negotiate drugs at the cheapest rates in America.

    Certainly, you can pull out examples of times when the VA system has not worked--an the VA continues to fix those problems.

    I can show you 47 million (and that's from prior to the start of the recession) times that America's current healthcare system has not worked.
    The healthcare I got in the early 70's when I was in the service was outstanding!
    My Phone & My Wife's Phone Two Unlocked GSM Treo Pro's

  12. #952  
    Quote Originally Posted by renerbl View Post
    The plan's name is TRICARE. I don't have the details of my friend's plan. I am sure the insurance company did not target her, but the treatment. I later found out that many insurance companies don't cover the procedure because it is not cost effective. So an executive bureaucrat, instead of a government bureaucrat was responsible for making the decision.

    I think we, the public, are getting manipulated by special interest groups and not providing us with the real information. The problem can be resolved if we stick to the facts and look at the real problem. I really want to know the facts. Is the proposed government plan like TRICARE/Blue Cross/<put your plan here>, if so I am for it. If not, then what is the difference.

    I was all for the public option until I found out it was going to cost me 10-13% of my income then hell no. It wasn't the argument that Obama wants to socialized everything or that government bureaucrat are going to plan your health from a basement that changed my mind.

    This problem only has two parameters cost and quality the rest is noise.
    I believe TriCare if for retired military and reservists, I assume you are one of those? So thank you for your service to our country! I don't know much about the workings of TriCare perhaps someone else in here does know....but I have no problem helping to pay the premium (which is what is likely going on if your premium is that low) for the folks who have served our country. I'm just funny about that....I am happy to take care of those that have taken care of me.
  13. #953  
    Cancer survival rates are higher in the US than in Canada and Great Britain. What you are getting is what you do not know at this time. You mumble $180 - look at what you get when the government says enough is enough, time to move on and maybe even suggest euthanasia. As for the same doctors - do you really know if those doctors will participate in the plan? Bunches do not with Medicare/Medicade. Gosh, chances are those doctors will not be given a choice. In addition, we have all been witness to the junk car program - most every program the government gets in to ends in the same mess. Social Security, Medicare - all broken and badly watched. Why put your eggs in the same basket with the same proven track record.

    The free market does work. You do not wait for service. Socialized medicine throughout the world has lines. We do not.

    Re the cancer thing - my wife has terminal lung cancer - at no times has any treatment been denied her. At no time has the insurance company said no.

    Quote Originally Posted by renerbl View Post
    Here are my facts:

    My insurance plans was 720/month with $5,000.00 deductible. That is $13,500 a year before the insurance pays a single penny. Congress passed a law a year or so ago and now I qualify for a government plan which is $180/month and $1000.00 deductible. Same doctors, although the list is a lot less now compared to my 13K plan. I don't have too, but I call the insurance before I see a specialist just to be in the clear.

    So far I have no complains about the plan and I even like it better. Medicine is cheaper, co-pays are low and out of pocket is low. I did noticed that what the plan pays the doctors is close to 70% less than what the doctor charges.

    The idea that a private for profit organization is going to put my interest ahead of theirs is ludicrous. I had a friend from high school who had cancer and the insurance company refused to pay for her treatment. Why? Obviously it wasn't profitable. Will the government do the same, I don't know, but The idea that a government plan's goal is to kill you is just retarded.

    Do you really want your health care to be decided on the basis of how profitable it is. If I am sick and poor, should I die? If you are sick and poor should I pay for your care?

    Communism takes care of the needed, but it is inefficient and stifles innovation. Free market is great at efficiency and innovation but only takes care of the few.
  14. #954  
    That is exactly what I am talking about Micael. You don't want to argue about facts, only try to put down people that do. So you think that private companies do not decline request, now who is talking out of their ***.

    So I see your tactic. Lets scare people and if someone ever contradicts, attack him instead of addressing the facts. Lets not look at the problem instead attack, attack.

    It sounds to me you have a conflict of interest here and you will never be able or willing to see the truth. You can't handle the truth.

    It is obvious that your argument is not to educate or help resolve the problem, but to push an agenda that puts your interest ahead of others. Obviously you think that if government takes over health care you'll be out of a job, and makes perfect sense. But that doesn't mean that you should attack me just because I make your argument weaker.

    Here is a fact. If I don't represent a profit for your company, your company will not insure me. That is the way it should be, because it is a business. That doesn't mean I have to die because of that.

    Now let me ask you this. What is the cost of a person's life long medical cost. I am not being facetious, I really would like to know. 500K, 1M, ??
  15. Micael's Avatar
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       #955  
    Quote Originally Posted by renerbl View Post
    The plan's name is TRICARE. I don't have the details of my friend's plan. I am sure the insurance company did not target her, but the treatment. I later found out that many insurance companies don't cover the procedure because it is not cost effective. So an executive bureaucrat, instead of a government bureaucrat was responsible for making the decision.
    Rarely, if ever, do we turn down a treatment just because it's expensive. It may be that other procedures are available that have lower costs that may even have better chances of success. Not all doctors are infallable or know everything that's available. All insurance companies have an appeal process that allows a physician to come back with more information that supports his/her procedure choice. We really are reasonable people. I've seen reversed decisions all the time.

    Your original statement was simply "she got cancer" and "the denied her treatment". If it *is* a true story, we both know that's not the whole story.

    renerbl, you seem intelligent. Surely you know that the problem is costs. Health insurance profits account for a measly 0.6 percent of health care costs. So, don't you see? You're barking up the wrong tree... the tree that Nancy Pelosi wants you to bark at.
    I think we, the public, are getting manipulated by special interest groups and not providing us with the real information. The problem can be resolved if we stick to the facts and look at the real problem. I really want to know the facts. Is the proposed government plan like TRICARE/Blue Cross/<put your plan here>, if so I am for it. If not, then what is the difference.

    I was all for the public option until I found out it was going to cost me 10-13% of my income then hell no. It wasn't the argument that Obama wants to socialized everything or that government bureaucrat are going to plan your health from a basement that changed my mind.

    This problem only has two parameters cost and quality the rest is noise.
    Until the second half of this post you sounded like a pure koolaide drinker. Maybe there's hope.... We all agree there needs to be changes. Healthcare is a mess. Please please don't support single-payer.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  16. Micael's Avatar
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       #956  
    Quote Originally Posted by zelgo View Post
    TRICARE is the military's health plan.

    Funny, people who support "socialized medicine" for our veterans and their VA system, don't want that for the rest of us.

    The VA system has, in recent years, shown excellent healthcare quality overall and is able to negotiate drugs at the cheapest rates in America.

    Certainly, you can pull out examples of times when the VA system has not worked--an the VA continues to fix those problems.

    I can show you 47 million (and that's from prior to the start of the recession) times that America's current healthcare system has not worked.
    The VA *isn't* military healthcare. You obviously aren't using the VA for your healthcare, or you'd be singing a different toon. It takes MONTHS for a retiree to see a doctor. Talk about outdated services, underpaid doctors, long waits.... its a crime how we treat this nation's veterans. You're right, we don't want that for our families.

    And I assume that 47 million includes 20 million illegals?
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  17. #957  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    Hey Lester....nice to see you back! Seems like if Woof is an insurance executive he should also be somewhat knowledgeable on the subject....I think that is good. By the way, just because one is an "insurance executive" does not mean that he/she is connected to a health insurance company. Most insurance companies out there do not market health insurance as it isn't a hugely profitable book of business. Many companies who used to market health insurance got out exactly for that reason. Just saying....
    Hi Clem, I'm just trying to see what other folks are doing because it helps me understand their arguments. You already told me you represent folks for their health insurance claims as part of your job, Woof and Michael are insurance executives I reckon too. So I can see you all have a dog in this fight. Anyway, I want to see our health care system get fixed, but I don't want to see good folks like you out of a job because of it. But you all seem like pretty smart fellas, so I am sure if there is reorganization going on, y'all will find good jobs. Also, I think everyone is not giving the VA enough credit. I volunteer there and most folks I work with patients and doctors both think it a great health care system. And it should be because its the least we can do for our veterans. Anyway, I didn't mean to act smart before about the copy and paste, I was just kidding around. I am still reading up on this health care stuff, and I am thankful for your giving me that paper on the congress bill. Thanks, Les
  18. #958  
    Quote Originally Posted by zelgo View Post
    TRICARE is the military's health plan.

    Funny, people who support "socialized medicine" for our veterans and their VA system, don't want that for the rest of us.

    The VA system has, in recent years, shown excellent healthcare quality overall and is able to negotiate drugs at the cheapest rates in America.

    Certainly, you can pull out examples of times when the VA system has not worked--an the VA continues to fix those problems.

    I can show you 47 million (and that's from prior to the start of the recession) times that America's current healthcare system has not worked.
    I just can't go down this 47 million road again
  19. Micael's Avatar
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       #959  
    Quote Originally Posted by zelgo View Post
    Oh, really? Heads would role in your Executive Board Room if the "interests of the patient" stopped your company from being profitable--the central problem with having a health system funded by for-profit entities.
    My company is private, and not-for-profit. Go figure. But your argument is still laughable. As if the government will be any more compassionate. Once you add your 50 million NEW insurees, you will immediately need to ration the current resources. 85% of our healthcare resources are used by our senior citizens.... how many of them will die based on your rationing? Sooo compassionate. What a laugh.
    Profits should not come before health. The rest of the entire industrialized world has already figured this out.
    Agree. And it doesn't. Thats just your weak mantra.
    There's no need to re-invent the wheel.

    Look elsewhere; see what works and what doesn't; fashion a health plan with what works. America's doesn't work.
    If you took ALL of the profits from healthcare insurance companies, you would have .6 of the total costs of healthcare. Big whoop.

    This argument isn't about costs. It's really about government control of our lives.

    America needs healthcare reforms. Costs need to be controlled. There are many different approaches to accomplishing this. You guys are trying to shove just one plan down our throats in record time. Why is that? Why so fast?
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  20. Micael's Avatar
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       #960  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    I just can't go down this 47 million road again
    Tell me about it!
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.

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