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  1. #861  
    Quote Originally Posted by zelgo View Post

    Strange...none of those fearful predictions panned out...at all.
    Yeah, like in the Reagan PSA spots where he said that if we offer health care reform, soon the government will choose what career your children will have!
  2. groovy's Avatar
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    #862  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    LOL....I'm with you Groovy....
    I know. I just thought I'd chime in with some more details.
  3. Micael's Avatar
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       #863  
    Quote Originally Posted by zelgo View Post
    ...and you trust the insurance company which is in business solely for profit??
    Who said his insurance company was soley in for profit? I work for a not-for-profit health insurance company, zelgo.
    These arguments about the government denying care and old people dying go far back...to when Medicare was proposed in 1965.
    Yeah... good thing we're not talking about Medicare, huh?
    Strange...none of those fearful predictions panned out...at all.
    Which fearful predictions? The fraud waste and abuse that is routinely uncovered in the Medicare system? The routine budget shortfalls? Those predictions?
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
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       #864  
    Quote Originally Posted by palandri View Post
    Zelgo, would you check your PM's please.
    Uh ohhh!!!
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
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       #865  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    Yeah, like in the Reagan PSA spots where he said that if we offer health care reform, soon the government will choose what career your children will have!
    Yep. Ronnie had it right. Socialized medicine is just the first step, but thats one of the things waiting at the end of that path.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  6. #866  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post

    Which fearful predictions? The fraud waste and abuse that is routinely uncovered in the Medicare system? The routine budget shortfalls? Those predictions?
    These predictions:

    As for Medicare, studies have shown



    Also reported in this study:

    • "Only 10 percent of Medicare beneficiaries said their physician would not take their insurance compared to 17 percent of those with employer coverage. "
    • "elderly Medicare beneficiaries were also significantly more likely to report being very confident that they could get high quality and safe medical care when needed, and very confident that they would be able to afford the care they need."


    Similar conclusions were reached here:

    National Journal Online - Who's Afraid Of Public Insurance?

    • "According to a national CAHPS survey conducted by the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services in 2007, 56 percent of enrollees in traditional fee-for-service Medicare give their "health plan" a rating of 9 or 10 on a 0-10 scale. Similarly, 60 percent of seniors enrolled in Medicare Managed Care rated their plans a 9 or 10. But according to the CAHPS surveys compiled by HHS, only 40 percent of Americans enrolled in private health insurance gave their plans a 9 or 10 rating.
    Last edited by Bujin; 07/31/2009 at 04:50 PM.
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  7. groovy's Avatar
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    #867  
    Well hell. I guess we're just picking low-hanging fruit these days.
  8. #868  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Yeah, like in the Reagan PSA spots where he said that if we offer health care reform, soon the government will choose what career your children will have!
    Yep. Ronnie had it right. Socialized medicine is just the first step, but thats one of the things waiting at the end of that path.
    Yes, his predictions that Medicare would cause a socialist state, and lead to the government choosing childrens' careers, were right on the money.
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  9. #869  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Yep. Ronnie had it right. Socialized medicine is just the first step, but thats one of the things waiting at the end of that path.
    It's too bad you don't live in a democracy when you would be able to vote these Socialist out of office.

    I happen to live in a democracy where I am to vote for the candidate of my choice. Since I am a blue collar, working class, Union Electrician, I am able to vote for candidates that are pro-labor.
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  10. #870  
    Interesting article from Nobel Prize winning economist Paul Krugman regarding the influence of government into our health care system: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/31/op...gman.html?_r=1
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  11. groovy's Avatar
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    #871  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    Interesting article from Nobel Prize winning economist Paul Krugman regarding the influence of government into our health care system: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/31/op...gman.html?_r=1
    I like how he just blew off the elderly voter at the beginning of the story as just misinformed. But I think there's probably a very good reason most elderly don't want health care reform.
  12. #872  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    I like how he just blew off the elderly voter at the beginning of the story as just misinformed. But I think there's probably a very good reason most elderly don't want health care reform.
    I think you're missing the entire point of his story...Medicare IS government-controlled health care, and the elderly don't want change because it works!!
  13. #873  
    Bujin, please stop making rational arguments based on evidence and data. You are infringing on the rights of myself and my fellow wingnuts to fear monger with impunity.

    kthnx.
  14. groovy's Avatar
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    #874  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    I think you're missing the entire point of his story...Medicare IS government-controlled health care, and the elderly don't want change because it works!!
    No, I got that.

    That may be half the reason. The other half of the reason is probably because most people know these new reforms will have to come from the same bucket as Medicare. So, the guy who said "keep your government hands off my Medicare" may have known what he was talking about after all.
    Last edited by groovy; 07/31/2009 at 06:37 PM.
  15. #875  
    Quote Originally Posted by awesomepatrol View Post
    Bujin, please stop making rational arguments based on evidence and data. You are infringing on the rights of myself and my fellow wingnuts to fear monger with impunity.

    kthnx.
    Sorry! Forgot that scientific reasoning = bad. I'll use my Magic 8 Ball homebrew app & talk radio for all of my important decisions from now on.
  16. #876  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    The other half of the reason is probably because most people know these new reforms will have to come from the same bucket as Medicare. So, the guy who said "keep your government hands off my Medicare" may have known what he was talking about after all.
    Or because they're being by some people the fiction that the government is knocking on their door to tell them it's "time to die".
  17. #877  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    Or because they're being by some people the fiction that the government is knocking on their door to tell them it's "time to die".
    What did we just discuss?
  18. #878  
    Quote Originally Posted by awesomepatrol View Post
    What did we just discuss?
    Sorry. I meant to say "signs point to no".
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    #879  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    Or because they're being by some people the fiction that the government is knocking on their door to tell them it's "time to die".
    The Associated Press: Seniors uneasy over Medicare cuts in overhaul

    The House bill the congressional proposal that has advanced the most would reduce projected increases in Medicare payments to providers by more than $500 billion over 10 years, a gross cut of about 7 percent over the period. But the legislation would also plow nearly $300 billion back into the program, mainly to sweeten payments to doctors.

    That still leaves a net cut of more than $200 billion, which would be used to offset new federal subsidies for workers and their families now lacking health insurance. Those uninsured workers also pay the taxes that go to support medical care for the elderly.

    ...

    "What we hear from our members is that to them Medicare savings sounds like cuts," said Nora Super, AARP's chief health care lobbyist. "Our members over 65 really value their Medicare program ... and numbers like $500 billion are huge numbers, so that is really scary to our members."
  20. #880  
    So, to be clear, we can't have a public option because it might somehow jeopardize the single payer system that we already have, which seniors apparently think works great, because government fatcats living in basements will destroy the country's healthcare and possibly soul with marxism?

    Fascinating.

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